TheHarpoMarxist

Longknife, you're yelling at a stranger over the internet. You're ranting. Over what, exactly? A few people making a simple, reasonable request to remove a half baked joke written by a backer who didn't know better. So yes, I do think you're blowing it out of proportion. I'll make it easy for you and walk away, because I actually am a comedy writer. And I need to get back to it.

Ah, but I'm not blowing anything out of proportion. I see this as what it is - back written content that doesn't serve the game in any way. Its a no-brainer to remove it, as it hurts plenty of people. The reaction to that simple request is insane. People are reacting as if art itself is under attack. It isn't. The only thing is that some people would like to see this stupid "joke", which adds nothing, removed so that the game will feel more inclusive to others. That's it. If you want to add gamergate political nonsense to it, that's not helpful. I think it is better to not see a conspiracy theory behind everything and instead take people at face value when they say "Hey, this thing makes me uncomfortable, can we lose it since it isn't part of your game?"

I'm a comedy writer. So please refrain from lecturing me about comedy. Again, this isn't about censorship. Please stop blowing this out of proportion, it isn't helpful. Especially when coupled with a slippery slope fallacy. There is no slippery slope here. The artistic integrity of Obsidian is not at stake, as this is backer related content. The Durance example stands, as it is treated in a very specific way, whereas this limerick isn't written with nearly the same amount of care and specificity. It is straight up making fun of trans people in a way that is most generously described as "lazy."

So "Male" and "Female" should be recognized as separated entities, but Trans should be piled up there in the Gabage bin with "Other", in the same place of "Otherkin" and all? Wow...just...wow... You. You grow up.

[Removed, wrong person.]

removed, wrong person

Its about protecting the artistic integrity of the game and working to make games more inclusive and less offputting to marginilized people. That doesn't mean you can't have dark / challenging content or humor. It just has to be fit your setting and be handled well. The game itself and obsidian's writers make Durance a misogynist. Nobody is asking for him to be removed from the game, because the game makes it very clear that he's flawed in that way. This backer epitaph isn't part of Obsidian's writing. Obsidian vetted plenty of backer content, and I'ms ure they removed a whole lot of hateful garbage. This one just slipped through the cracks. Everyone who loves jokes making fun of trans people can find such things in other places. It doesn't need to be here, in the middle of an otherwise sensitive and thought provoking game.

This isn't about censorship. Stop bringing censorship up and treating this like it is some sort of big deal and blowing it out of proportion. This is a BACKER CREATED epitaph. It can go away and the game will be better for it. Nobody is going to censor your games. Nobody is asking for the removal of any of the challenging and darker material in the game. This one thing is pointless and hateful. Its really sad to see so many people turn this into some sort of weird political vendetta against "SJW" instead of what it is - a piss poor backer created epitaph that has nothing to do with anything else in the game. It can be removed and make a whole lot of people feel less uneasy about the game without taking anything away from anyone else's experience. How about just a little compassion? Go with the "Benevolent" option here instead of the "Cruel" one.

Oh? This joke written by a backer is integral to your experience of the game? I'm sorry but I don't buy that for a second. And even if it is true, then you're pretty much saying that you getting a slight chuckle is more important than the actual lives of other people. And its removal doesn't at all hurt the industry in any way, shape, or form.

Actually, an "other" option would be lovely and appropriate. It is 2015, and we should be better by now. I'm really disappointed that so many people in this community are so gung-ho to mock people who aren't cis-gendered. If you want another compelling reason to remove the "joke" epitaph, its **** like this.

Why not just led it slide because inclusion doesn't remove anything for the game and it's optional content that no one is forced to read? Here's the thing - Its inclusion hurts and angers a number of people. Some people don't mind it, but its inclusion still adds nothing. And again, isn't part of Obsidian's vision. So why not just do right by other people are remove it from the game?

How about, since it is such a minor part of the game and has nothing at all to do with Obsidian's vision or artistic integrity (as it is backer written) you just let it go? The game is better without it, and its inclusion adds nothing.

It already has a talking chair, why not also give us a genie, a magic screen, and Mr. Window?

I am offended by presence of witchcraft and other occult elements in the game. Can I get those removed? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Look up "false equivalency." Maybe try to see something from someone else's shoes instead of just dismissing outright?

Wow, a few hours pass and this thread spirals. This isn't about semantics. That's not a helpful rabbit hole to go down. This is a no brainer. A backer (not even a writer for the game) put in problematic content that somehow got by the vetting. The solution is simple: remove the epitaph. It adds nothing to the game. Obsidian's artistic voice isn't being censored by its removal.

Out of curiosity, should a game (or a movie, or a book) avoid any mention of anything unpleasant? IE should there never be a racist character because it "normalizes racism"? Should a game not be able to have a misandrist like Shar-Teel because having the character exist supports the normalization of misandry? I admit I've read the memorial and I fail to see what the issue is; and I'm having a hard time rationalizing the argument from the other side. I think all topics are open for exploration in art. I'm a filmmaker. I'm anti-censorship. My last feature contains a whole bunch of difficult, challenging material. A lot of it is uncomfortable. The thing is - at no point does the film "punch down." You can totally approach ANY topic, but you have to be aware of what you are doing. When you cross lines, you need to be aware that you are crossing them, and you need to have a damn good reason for doing so. Otherwise you're being careless. No art should be careless or lazy. The issue with this particular thing is that it both crosses a line and has no purpose, save to punch down. It adds nothing to the game, and it reinforces some pretty effed up ideas. The limerick wasn't written by Obsidian - it isn't part of their vision for the game world. It is a backer add-on that should have been better vetted. I have a hard time figuring out why people are adamantly defending it. On the internet it is really easy to get caught up in an "us vs. them" mentality. It is harder to see nuance from where someone else is coming from. It is telling that you assume that I might think that all games, movies, or books should be sanitary and controversy free. Anyway, I hope you take this with the spirit it was intended. I'm not looking to fight with people, and I hope I've provided some context that is useful.

In the case of transgendered people, you are intolerant. It might be worth reading about and looking into. You can always educate yourself. One of the major themes of PoE is acknowledgement of mistakes and wrong-doing, and how to atone. Rather than be defense with statements like "good job" or lash out at some straw-PC state, maybe take the opportunity to instead seek out trans voices and make an attempt to identify with them at a human level.

Great, I hope Obsidian does cut it. It doesn't serve the themes, mood, atmosphe, or game in any way. If people want to mod bigoted garbage into their game, that's their perogative.

I'm sorry that you are offended that I exercise my freedom of speech to point out hurtful content that adds nothing to the game. I hope that Obsidian, as the artists whose created the game, make the right artistic call and opt to cut this particular iota of content which adds nothing at best and sours the experience of the game for lots of people at worst. Rest assured I don't think you are a terrorist though. Nice false equivalency bro.

I'm completely serious, and you don't get to tell me how I should or shouldn't react to something. My reactions are my own. If the limerick doesn't bother you, great. No need for you to comment here at all then. To me, the limerick completely normalizes homophobia and transphobia. For people who have to live with that garbage day in and day out, the last place you'd want to see it is in an otherwise thoughtful game. As it is a largely irrelevent part of the game itself, I'm shocked that people seem so offended by the suggestion that removing it would be best. Even the person who wrote is apparently fine with it being removed, apparently.

I've heard the person who wrote the limerick is okay with removing it, and just hadn't realized the limerick was hurtful. It is sad to see so many people fighting so hard to defend something that is at best irrelevant to the game entirely, and at worst souring the experience for a lot of people. Its NBD, so why not just take it out? It isn't part of Obsidian's artistic vision for the game, its a tacked on content that should have been vetted better.

I've really been enjoying the game, but I was saddened to learn that one of the backers included a transphobic limerick. I'm disappointed Obsidian didn't vet that content well, but I'm encouraged that Sawyer is looking into it now, and I hope that the right call is made. This is such an incidental, minor part of the game that including it serves no particular function, and its existence sours an otherwise amazing game experience. Thanks!

Well done guide - it is much appreciated! You also sold me on Hard (since becoming a reasonably functional adult, I've been skewing far more "Normal" than I did in childhood. Pesky growing up!)

+1. My hope is that every class and race will have easter egg content specific to them.

I'd like horses - I know this is fantasy, but horses were everywhere. Anytime they get overlooked in something set pre-automobile it just feels weird (unless it was worked into the setting somehow - like horses just straight up don't exist.) I'd understand if mounted combat had to be nixed, but having them available for fast travel would be nice.