Nyhilla

Also I forgot to state that, how citizens react when they see you must be taken in the affair. If you burned to the ground the previous town (and thus probably killed some people of their own family or friends), then if they're not saying anything, what's the point in doing something ? be it "good or evil". Skyrim is a good example of the neglect of this aspect. You're the *****ing High King and no one give a **** about it. Seriously when you do/are something, there must be a reactions from your status by the citizens. Why would a guard put in jail is own High Kink ? Or in fact put in jail for 5 years the man who's need to kill the threat roaring an impending doom on all of the world. "Evil and Good" so is also about how the world react to you, and not only about the choices you can, or cannot make through your journey.

Yeah, in my experience, when people say they want to play evil, they really are just looking for ways to complain about not having enough "choice". Personnaly when I'm talking about playing evil, it's about plotting, do wathever is good for me. I talk about politics, reputations with this or this faction. Do I care about kicking a puppy ass, no, not really ; this puppy can die or live I don't give a *****. If there's a kingdom who is abble to hide my experiments on kidnapped children without them noticing about, because I'm the loyal councelor of their king, then this is what I mean when talking about "evil". If it's considered bad or good by some people, this is their way to see it, not mine. I just found a refugie convoy, they ask me to help them, what will I do ? There are more than one option. 1 - Help them by defeating some bandits. 2 - Be sure that the convoy reach the nearest town-fortress they're aiming to. 3 - Make sure you help them, and ask a valuable reward. 4 - Slaughter them all, rape the women, and enslave their children. Well ok .. and ... not enough for me. 5 - I help them because they're rewarding me for doing so, and the reward please me. I'm gathering some informations on those refugies. I learn by bribing one of them that he is just a bodyguard and that his Lord is in hidding as one of the refugies, trying to reach the safety of his family town-fortress. I want him to work for me. I have plenty options about how I can manage to get him on my side, willingly or not. Let's say this lord is a butcher (I don't care what he has done), and that if the refugies learn of it they will kill him. That's something, so I can use this information at my advantage and make sure that he will get me entries to his court for exemple, and reach some degree of power in nobility as a pass to more complex motivations, or just as a an undercover, like I stated about being the councellor of some high ranked peoples. What I want to do with those new possibilities is up to me. I stated in a post some time ago, that if a town was attacked by a bunch of renegades, undead, or whatever can be, and that "paladins" wanted me to help them defend the town, I want to choose if I will or not do something. Do I must defend them, help the attackers, don't care at all, find what I was searching for and the make my way through both sides, etc ... ? Choices that are about killing the commanders of the "bad guys", then help the citizens or just leave them, is not what I call playing a game, and this is not about being "evil or good". this is just a fake choice. Generally in games, you have a good and a bad choice, which mean, kill the bad guys, or the good guys (and they are good or evil from the point of view of the devs, not mine. I can see the "bad guys", as in fact the good guys and conversely the good guys as the bad guys). Wtf is that ? Is that a choice ? If you kill the good guys, you get nothing, and you dont hear a ***** further in the story about the bad guys, and if you kill the bad guys, the good guys give you 10 gold then they leave and you never hear of them neither. That is not about playing evil or good or neutral, this is just fake choices. Let's take an exemple of Paragon and Pragmatism from Mass Effect 2, that some people consider to be a choice between good and evil. The guy you can throw out of a window, why the hell would I do that ? I can push him, or just let it go. Why is that a "pragmatism (evil)" choice ?. I mean even the "good guy" can answer to that : "If I don't kill him, he will reveal ou position, and if he manage to leave alive, he will kill more innocents". And here I don't talk about choices. So do you throw him or not. You're a soldier, you need to do what you consider to be the best option from your point of view. Kill this man because, or do not kill him because. "Evil" is just a point of view. There, am I evil, normal, good ? Depends of how people see it.(Refer to the first little story about the Lord) What I don't want is like Frenetic pony, to have just an option about kicking the dog of some little girl .. I just don't give a ***** about her dog or to steal a lolipop. This can be difficult to introduce I admit, but as no devs tried yet (It's my opinion that none really tried to) then it's sure that we will not see anything of this sort happen in a game for a while. Maybe if this was a more common type of gameplay ... PS : Sorry for my english, I tried my best to keep it coherent ^^.

As there's no black knight, dread knight, necromancer, or other classes with similarities, I think I'll be going on a fighter (Hope there will be some sort of dualwielding for them), or a Cipher. I'll see that when I'll get the full information pack. And when I tell Full, it's full, I like theory builds so, wait'n'see. Edit : Oh yes, there's no Dark elves like in D&D so I guess I will give a shot to ... humans ! for once I'll play as a human .. beee .. ^^

Yes ! Yes yes ! YES ! I want this option ^^

That's about mechanics ingame, and in the same time the politicals situations of the differents city states. you can yes masquerade your stronghold, that could be a good lorefriendly explanation. But if you're an "evil" (I use the "" from the beginning because this is too simplified as a terme)and not masquerading anything, ok, they won't like you. But, they are not stupid, if you help them defeat the main ennemy, and let's take a general main plot, who's theatening their life and citizens, they won't attack you if they think you can be useful to defeat this ennemy. They'll eventually turn on you after the war is over, or if you're a good diplomat, make truce pact (who will eventually be over in less than some years assurely ^^). But this is all about context, so I'm not complaining or anything, let's see what it will be when we'll really be playing on. Would be interesting seeing something like fallout new vegas reputation system. What you do in your stronghold affects the relationship with factions in the game. The factions elite members may hate you and want to kill you at first depending on what you do in your stronghold. And eventually if you make significant choices in your stronghold and do not be diplomatic they can sway their entire faction to wreck your stronghold. That's part of what I'm trying to share with, so I can only agree with that. About tearing childrens in half ... well, I'll see that one day maybe ... Just kidding ! Or am I .. don't know anymore ... my mind is full of nothing right now. Ha ! Either way, my last post was part of what you said, about a "reputation" you tie with inhabitants. This was about the paladin order and the "they'll eventually beat the **** out of you if you're growing a threat against them as well as the main vilain". I'm interested by these type of developments in sotry lines in games in fact. Will you wish to join or not the "villains". One that come in my mind was Might and magic 7 where you could join the Light or the Dark side, angels/wizards or necromancers. I liked it, even if there wasn't a real difference in the end, you got differents quests relative to what side you choose. I'm not saying neither that you must choose a path, but to be able to interact with the overall factions, without being tied to one, or to the good and bad guys. Exemple, you (The neutral), the good, and the bad ( Yeah yea I know, badumtss). You're wandering the world, you met some important peoples, they try to convince you to join them as they see you're growing in power. You get a strnoghold by wathever method you can (That can be difficult to script that I know). Here you are, little lord, seeking yourself a purpose, what will you do ? seek power, glory, you don't give a ****. And you go on I'll let your imagination work for you. This is a possible script for a rpg. And in fact, I think that with the same model as of project eternity use, you could do it. This could open a lot of possibilitys and different way to play a game. If only video game industry wern't so obsessed with basic and fast achieve game that make money (and not money for the employees who'd created the game ...). And do not misunderstand me, I'm not saying that project eternity is one of them. I placed great hope in it, and by now I'm far, really far to be disapointed ^^, I just love to grumble on everything ^^ I'm off topic now ... ^^

That's about mechanics ingame, and in the same time the politicals situations of the differents city states. you can yes masquerade your stronghold, that could be a good lorefriendly explanation. But if you're an "evil" (I use the "" from the beginning because this is too simplified as a terme)and not masquerading anything, ok, they won't like you. But, they are not stupid, if you help them defeat the main ennemy, and let's take a general main plot, who's theatening their life and citizens, they won't attack you if they think you can be useful to defeat this ennemy. They'll eventually turn on you after the war is over, or if you're a good diplomat, make truce pact (who will eventually be over in less than some years assurely ^^). But this is all about context, so I'm not complaining or anything, let's see what it will be when we'll really be playing on.

I guess you can do it too, even if you're not "evil". In wich case you can't use some "features" since you're part of "introduce alignment", and there's some complexity mechanisms in the choices made through the game, and not only based on "you can torture someone wathever side you are", then ok. (But I guess I'm too hard too please ^^ I need complex systems.)

I rather saw a "what can happen through the story to the character. They helped the world/country/town, ok, that's the story, but how ? By what means did they succeed and go through ? That's my point. The "good" char will save people, the "evil" will not care. I'm more interested on what is the results of their actions. This is sometimes a bit worked on games, but never enough in some "point of view". Generally, the story is about the "good" ones, and is much more worked on than the alternate results. This char will save a town for exemple and tralala all is good and all. But if the evil one save the town, what was is purpose, why did he saved the town, and what do he get in exchange (not from the citizens themselves for exemple). He must have a reason to not skip it and go to the next step. Why for exemple would he ally himself with the paladin guarnison (and why would they accept to help him even if he saved them, if he work for "darker powers".), since he maybe can find some other "people" to join his cause. It is generally assume "You fight the ennemy, you save some groups, you make them join your "alliance/army"". One exemple : NW 2 MotB : The half lich at the end, she need some books, my char is evil (I guess you already understood that I'm a ****ing **** in all my playtrhough ^^); Why the HELL would I give them to her, or DESTROY them. I want to KEEP them. For me, for my personnal use. Maybe not for the game, but let's say the epilogue. Same for the book that learn how to change yourself into a lich, I don't want to give it to this little useless priest, I want this book for my collection ! Don't know if I'm clear, some of my toughts are slipping out of my mind while I'm writting them dow ....

This is all about flexibility in our choices (Not only for the stronghold). So yes it would be really great if we were just able to move a little from the archetype of the "Hero" from time to time. That could allow a vast amount of new stuff to add in the game. By the way, the tyrant and the greater good is a good idea ^^.

The stronghold is optional. If you don't think it makes sense for the character you want to play then don't accept it. Your choice. Well yeah I know, but even if optional, it has great potential for any who wish to go deeper in the game they provided to us. So it would be a shame to skip it ^^. That would be a great idea if they allow people to do that. But I don't know if someone will ever take the time to make such a huge work.

Hello there, I know I'm a bit late, but I wanted to share with you some of my thoughts about strongholds. First of all, let's me explain some things : Did you ever wanted to be, not a hero, not a "mot*****cka lord of darkness that kill verything", but the "bad guy" ? So, you know, you start as a peasant, prisonner, son of a god or wathever; you play your role, resolving some problems around and getting some respect or hate from the fellow inhabitants(depends who you helped ^^), and, you choose your way. Ok, the way, the path, your character ''reputation" (Let's say Good/Neutral/Evil, and all that come along to be easy to understand). Say that I'm a Necromancer ok ? I'm here wandering with my little bastards companions (Lawfull Evil party maybe ?), and here we go, we are offered a stronghold (That's a ****ing bad idea to offer them such a thing by the way, as they already have murdered all citizens in 3 towns, leaving no witnesses). As a player, I want to be an evil man (I don't want to burn the planet to the ground ! That would make no sense for me). I got a stronghold now, so I am gonna make it a nice and shiny castle with flamboyant tapisserie or am I gonna let my walls cold and inhospitable ? I'm a Necromancer after all, why would I be happy with shiny walls made of marbles and decorated with gold sequin ? The people living on my lands, do I want them .. physically alive, or just turn them into skelettons and zombies (Hey I'm a hero at the base, I can do whatever I want with my powers). So the taxes arn't really of my concerns, or their happiness neither, since they're all dead already (Or if I let them alive, do I really care ?). Same goes for the guards and Hirelings, even if some hirelings arn't too picky on who they serve if they get paid well (Or not so well if you take care of some troubles of them, or if your threaten them).Let's talk about the prison in the same way. Do I just want to lock them up, or do I want to torture them a little as long as they sojourn in my jails. That's all for the exemples, this is just an sketch of what I'm thinking, but it resume it well I think. Conclusion : I know that you've already made a really good work, and I'm really, really glad about that stuff. But can't we work on the overall ambiance ? You know, the stronghold would really look akward if it is lead by a Lich (Even if lichs don't exist in PE, this is an exemple), that look like a big compendium of celestial light. I think by now you know of what I'm talking about, so I can't say really more since my english isn't good enough to write a large reading ^^ (And sorry by the way about my spellings etc). PS : I really am a huge fan of Blackguards/Necromancer and all sort of undeads and I always play the bad guys (But lawfull evil tough, I'm not a brainless demon chaotic evil , I respect some laws too, if they fits to my goals assuredly). Nyhilla Sillish'ari.

I think the micro management of BG was part of the gameplay too. I liked too scroll pages on my spellbook, like I was looking too a real one ( in my mind ). BG without this wouldn't be ... BG. I mean it was part of it. Maybe a "choose a quickspell key", like in a lot of games would be confortable in certain cases, but it would mean reduce the difficulty or the gameplay possibilities ( build intelligently your character to get spells, etc ) since you'll be using this quickspell repeatedly. But if you're using a spell 25 time in 10 min (I'm exagerating), you know the icon, even if you're using "this specific" spell once each 4/5 h (ingame or irl tabletime). About a certain time passed to play, you know exactly where they're are located and you don't lose time or even think about it. But it can be a good idea to make a "personnal classification book". One with all the spells, skills. And inside this spell/ability book, allow the player to classify, and most favorite ones.