Captain Shrek
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Posts posted by Captain Shrek
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They did also lay out in considerable detail what they felt constitute an "IE game spiritual successor." First in the initial pitch, then in the updates over the course of the campaign.
As I said, it's remarkable how little they've drifted from what they described there.
It is not reasonable to expect them to adhere to your personal interpretation of what the IE successor ought to be.
Being disappointed, feeling that they missed the mark, feeling that it's not fun, and so on is a different matter altogether. Helm isn't saying tha though. He is flat-out claiming this:
Obsidian is giving us something much different than what they promised.
That is a lot more than a subjective impression. It is also a lie.
Actually I heard a lot of contradictory opinion on this one. You sound very confident so i assume this is not ass-talk.
Can you supply quotes that explain to what extent they mean to emulate IE games beyond the "feels"?
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Might attribute should be renamed: Damage modifier.
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How does that even make sense Infinitron? This clearly depends on attributes ffs.
Not to mention the plate and leather armors have penalties to go along.
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Maybe there shouldn't be (lol) 12 kinds of armour.
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That still can be sorted out by readjusting the numbers a bit and limiting HP itself. Right now HP scales linearly I guess with level. That definitely needs to go, even from DnD.
The HP number system I would say is more 4E inspired than anything else.
Care to explain/link? Never played 4E before.
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Large numbers (of Health and Damage) are actually *required* because of the DT system. There's like 10-12 types of armor or something and Josh has staggered them in 1 DT intervals.
D&D numbers wouldn't work because something like 5-8 damage for instance (one of his earliest examples of a Longsword damage) would do nothing against 8 DT.
Is combat fun this way?
(MMO-ish tank pushed to the frontline, loadouts from the rear, rinse and repeat.)
Are we enjoying it? Are we frustrated because it's all new? Or are we frustrated because it simply is not fun?
I'm asking this, because this is a perfect opportunity to rectify combat and make it into something that most people intuitively enjoy and understand. Let's not waste it, peeps.
I don't think so. I actually don't mind the higher amount of micromanagement, but some people - such as the majority of the RPGCodex think it's horrible and that the system would be way better if it was turn-based because it seems you pause very often.
What I'm not enjoying is that there seems to be little flexibility in how combat plays out. There's one optimal way and the rest are not as good. The IE games wasn't really like that at all. You could cheese stuff, sure but if you played normally there were a variety of different playstyles you could use for party setups.
THere are 12 kinds of armours??? WTFLOL.
Anyway.
That still can be sorted out by readjusting the numbers a bit and limiting HP itself. Right now HP scales linearly I guess with level. That definitely needs to go, even from DnD.
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I would also like them to cut all numbers by half. There is no need to have MMO level numbers, I hate that ****.
Its the problem of large numbers: They are pretty much useless and manage to spoil the feel of the game - as items have to scale ridiculously fast from +1 to +50. It is best to go the non-epic DnD way and stick with numbers in the range 0-20.
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No seriously. Is there a reasonable argument as to why Stamina/Health mechanics exists?
No healing spells because it would encourage healing batteries and/or make classes like a priest indispensable for every party (giving every class healing spell abilities sucks and doesn't feel right).
Alternative would be to let all healing happen through healing potions, but that sucks and doesn't feel right.
healing bandages and such stuff are lame
Actually nothing of that sort ought to happen. And that is besides the point anyway. The player should have the freedom to decide how he plays. Artifcially restricting playstyles is pretty damn ugly way of designing a SINGLE PLAYER GAME.
More importantly, if I understand your argument right, what you are saying is sas follows:
"The HP/Stamina distinction exists because there is no healing magic. So you can not heal HP hence stamina must be healed instead."
I have several obvious objections:
1) How the heck do you heal stamina? Do they call it stamina magic or something?
2) Why not just get rid of HP altogether? "Heal stamina" instead
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No seriously. Is there a reasonable argument as to why Stamina/Health mechanics exists?
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I have a query:
Can some one distinguish the two possibilities:
1) High HP + ability to heal + no stamina
2) High Stamina + HP + ability to heal stamina
I feel they are practically equivalent. The second one just has more failure states and rest spamming potential. Why? Because as long as the total HP in the scenario 1 equals the total Stamina in scenario 2, the disability condition can be met equivalently. Can anyone contradict?
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Hi Beta Backers.
I had a question concerning the effectiveness of Gear on the game. The exact question is, to what extent do items including weapons, trinkets, gear and consumables allow you to ignore base stats?
Please explain to us what the ratio of character traits vs item traits feels like
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Pretty good damage dealer with actual non combat spells. Just check the NWN2/BG2 spell list how huge it is and contains a LOT of non-combat-only situation spells. That is telling: NWN/IE games had a different problem. They did not have the content to justify the spell list. Which would imply the fix should have been to include the content, not remove the spells.
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I guess most summon spells that deal with outer planes could easily have had non combat content which was absent. Then there are all the spells like Friends, Wish, True Sight, Infravision, Spook, Horror, Emotion, Know alignment, Farsight in BGs which could have easily had a story based role. NWN2 has way more spells than that which are non combat utility. The real problem is that they are useless as MOST if not all the "spell using"encounters are combat based.
Friends was of extremely limited use in the IE games. Wish was never properly implemented (couldn't be, since there's no way to implement such a thing in a computer game). True Sight was primarily a combat buff. Infravision was there and I think I even cast it, once, before acquiring an object that had it on it when I needed it. Spook, Horror, Emotion were all combat spells (and good ones at that). I'll give you Know alignment but... when was that actually useful? Farsight... no recollection of using that.
PnP is a whole 'nuther ball game--dig or passwall, anyone?--but I honestly don't recall having much use for magic out of combat in any of the IE games or their successors. Crafting, of course, but that mostly used combat spells.
Are you purposefully misreading my posts?
I clearly said that in IE games or in NWN2 these spells never had any non combat use despite having non combat utility.
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Oh I don't know:
I guess most summon spells that deal with outer planes could easily have had non combat content which was absent. Then there are all the spells like Friends, Wish, True Sight, Infravision, Spook, Horror, Emotion, Know alignment, Farsight in BGs which could have easily had a story based role. NWN2 has way more spells than that which are non combat utility. The real problem is that they are useless as MOST if not all the "spell using"encounters are combat based.
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What I mean was that the Wizard simply is damage/buff engine in this game. It would be a pity to waste the amazing potential of wizardry on that.
Uh... so what's a wizard in the IE games?
Pretty good damage dealer with actual non combat spells. Just check the NWN2/BG2 spell list how huge it is and contains a LOT of non-combat-only situation spells. That is telling: NWN/IE games had a different problem. They did not have the content to justify the spell list. Which would imply the fix should have been to include the content, not remove the spells.
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On a tangent, this makes me feel that the designer of this game generally wanted to create an attribute called "damage modifier" but the art/writing team did not let him. Which in turn makes me suspicious that the class system is simply a facade for a simplistic "action RPG" character creator where the most important gameplay mechanic is dealing damage. The classes simply change the visual profile of how that is being done: A wizard is an archer who has colored sparkly arrows.
That's not how the game plays at even this early stage. For one thing, most wizard attack spells are AoE damage of various types (burning hands clone, fireball, wall of fire, cone of cold effect that also slows, and so on). There's only one point-damage spell sequence that I've come across (Magic Missile-ish). Archers OTOH exclusively deal point damage/debuff.
Seriously, there are plenty of criticisms you can legitimately level at P:E, but "all classes play the same minus the special effects" isn't one of them. They really do feel diverse.
May be I should have been clearer.
What I mean was that the Wizard simply is damage/buff engine in this game. It would be a pity to waste the amazing potential of wizardry on that.
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I really feel that the developers should make games that THEY want to play. Trying to second guess the players leads only to focus group mess and leads the game away from the developers gut feeling. Generally what people are comfortable with *themselves* should be what they should try and make for a game.
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To make a attribute list intuitive the designer should really try and relate to the gut feeling associated with the words. If an attribute called might associates with both physical strength and mental "might", that is automatically confusing. Normal people do not view the word that way.
On a tangent, this makes me feel that the designer of this game generally wanted to create an attribute called "damage modifier" but the art/writing team did not let him. Which in turn makes me suspicious that the class system is simply a facade for a simplistic "action RPG" character creator where the most important gameplay mechanic is dealing damage. The classes simply change the visual profile of how that is being done: A wizard is an archer who has colored sparkly arrows.
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I would first ask: Why does every attribute need to be equally useful for all the classes? That itself seems pretty silly and tacked on.
To allow for the possibility of creating diverse, yet still useful, character builds. It's not at all "tacked on"; it's the main goal of the attribute system
Diverse classes do not require equally useful attributes. You want all attributes to make sense? Then fine that is doable. You want all of them to make equal sense on all classes? That makes them pointless.
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I would first ask: Why does every attribute need to be equally useful for all the classes? That itself seems pretty silly and tacked on.
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Sorry for necroing this old thread. But can someone point me to the new rest mechanics update? Can't seem to find it? So is the limited resource thing finally in? How hard is it to break the resource economy?
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Unfortunately, for some "no instant gratification" = frustration.
Challenge = frustration
Unwanted consequences = frustration.
Admittedly this is the target audience of P:E.
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Dude. Stop being scary.Wont players then just buy a billion rations and carry them around in our portable-hole-of-no-weight?
What kind of an idiot would allow a game to be broken so that the players can get infinite gold and resources.
Oh wait.
Obsidian!
My mistake.
Exactly. Ill be able to r-click {loot all} and carry every single pickup-able item on the continent without thought or effort. Ill be rolling in gold before I finish clearing the basement of rats. Im absolutely going to "game" the system (if forced to via these mechanics) to decrease the pain caused by the mechanics. Because that's how I choose to play my game.
The central idea is there ought to be no pain in a game. Frustration != Difficulty.
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Wont players then just buy a billion rations and carry them around in our portable-hole-of-no-weight?
Dude. Stop being scary.
What kind of an idiot would allow a game to be broken so that the players can get infinite gold and resources.
Oh wait.
Obsidian!
My mistake.
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A different view on the whole XP controversy
in Backer Beta Discussion
Posted
I personally feel this issue is mostly overrated. But that could be just me. I prefer a good story as a reward for doing quests. For combat, I do not need rewards if it is interesting in and itself. Obviously very subjective opinion.
As I see it, RTwP combat with parties in most games tends to be tiresome for single player games. The two exceptions being the Drakensang River of Time game and Trash-eliminated gameplay from Dragon Age Origin. NWN and NWN2 modules where you control only one character also work for me. So I do not see how giving XP would really help me here as the combat itself seems quite very flawed what with bad AI and terrible cooldown like mechanics combined with RtwP cluster**** that it is.