Methuseleh

TOEE for the combat system and Planescape: Torment for the depth and breadth of the plot and NPCs pls. Tyvm! P.S. Dispense with the environmental particle effects from TOEE - they really loused up the framerate PPS - Realistic looting is awesome! (By that I mean if they were wearing plate and swinging a mace, they drop plate and a mace, whatever condition) Requires choices between high-value loot and every scrap of leather armor lying on the shattered husks of your enemies. PPPS - Salvaging? Maybe, but a detailed crafting system would probably need to be a very large stretch goal.

Some thoughts and a suggestion. First, one if the big gaps in the discussion is: what is a gold coin? This may sound odd, but there is a huge difference between the giant pirate dubloons used by Hollywood and gold coins that were actually used in the real world. I have handled an actual U.S. gold coin from 1893, a $2.50 piece. It was no bigger than my pinkie nail and weighed almost nothing. A sack of dubloons would weigh a ton for not much value while a sack of the U.S. coins would have had tremendous value. Assuming that the gold coins are small and very valuable, there is no real reason to force players to calculate weight for anything other than truly staggering numbers. That problem gave rise in the real world to letters of credit which were cashable only with particular merchant houses. This is cumbersome for game purposes but could be made fun. Suddenly, forgery becomes a very valuable skill! Consider making gold a one-slot inventory item with a fixed weight up to a particular number, say, 10,000 coins. Assume players will have gem bags and scroll cases so gold can be converted to gems / jewelry or to letters of credit, both of which have extremely high value-to-weight ratios. Merchants conducting transactions for more than 10kanything I will cash would have been far more likely to conduct their business by letters of credit anyway. Or... just use a new medium of super-high value currency, say, soul-stones.

What I am hearing in this thread sounds like "please don't take away our story or jam your story down our throat." Crpgers tend to want to be able to make their own story. We're not adverse to consequences. Make a bad call, bad things happen. We don't like it when we put in huge amounts of time and effort to develop our characters and our stories only to see that investment ripped away or completely ignored. This was the problem with Mass Effect's ending more than anything else. I will go out on a limb and say this as well: certain plot devices (child of bhaal springs to mind) are inherently limiting. Elevating the main character for some reason is convenient for plot purposes, but IWD didn't do that and was still a great game. Same for TOEE. Game designers are bestowing an interactive gift upon their players. Both sides may have an experience they want to share, but ultimately, choice and preference makes for a better game than authoritarian dictation of a predetermined outcome.

Interesting notion, Shard. Could be worked into a sort of feudalism for the soul concept. Some souls voluntarily pledged or bound, others not so much.

What about good old-fashioned tavern wenches? It seems that sexuality of any kind has been removed from games. I've see the "No boob-plate" comments in other threads, but there is a reason why belly-dancing evolved in taverns, why there are strip clubs in every corner of the globe and why you see bare midriffs on EVERY SINGLE magazine at the check-out line. Sex. Sells. (If you don't want boob-plates, there should be different armor or costume sets available or just throw a cloak over it for the love of Zeus). Hmm.. side-thought: cash store for revealing or flashy clothing sets. I have no objection to equal-time beefcake or whatever the equivalent is. In fact, I'd like a Brothel for Slaking Intellectual Lusts as well as a Pit of Carnal Behaviour. I think a true gentleman's cabaret or an actual geisha house with highly trained, educated denizens talented in many artistic fields could be a seriously educational and fun experience not for the smut factor, but to raise consciousness on a much broader base. Anything like this should cost something significant in terms of sacrifice. Perhaps Master Tan of the Flying Daggers is only in town this one time when Libertine Larry is offering you a ticket to one of these places if you'll just do him a little favor - but you must pick one and live with the consequences. There's a reason true swordmasters are a grim and humorless bunch sometimes, just like there's a reason theives and scallywags seem to be more fun, but it should be on the player to choose.

Yes, in fact... I see in my mind's eye - a new thing: the Menace Meter. One can never really tell just how dangerous looking an enemy group is. Wouldn't that affect your decision as to whether to talk, fight or run? When combatants drop, the meter would adjust. HOWEVER - - it's not always accurate pre-combat. A party can be incognito or unbuffed. They might be trying to lure you into a trap. When they drop the hammer and reveal themselves - perhaps they are elf-lords in their glory or unsanctified foes from the pits and the glow of power surrounds them. Perhaps when your party buffs (can we please have a "DO IT" or "COME AT ME BRO" button to buff all?) the meter re-balances... or perhaps the horror of being grossly outmatched is revealed... It would be an awesome device to create a sense of foreboding, a warning of grim things in the dark, bumping upward at certain intervals when pebbles fall in the cavern only to fall back then rise again...

Come to think of it, wouldn't it be a "uh-oh" moment to see a party of moderately-armed enemies suddenly break into their own separate invocations of cosmic power then light up with different forms of danger? Wouldn't it be even cooler to bust out your own party's amps and buffs to match?

Here's the thing about classes: If Obsidian is creating an independent framework for non-combat skills, then a lot of character depth can be gained from that framework. A party doesn't *need* a ranger, they can get scouting-type skills even if they happen to cast spells. They might not even *need* a healer if the non-combat skills are high enough or potions can be crafted etc. They might prefer to have someone who has lockpick skills, but why can't that be a blademaster? What we are looking at here could be a brilliant new approach where one is more concerned about a combat "style" than a package of pre-determined skills. Consider - how many times have you wished your wizard could do a fade then dual-dagger attack someone in the back row? Is there really any reason why they shouldn't be able to do that? Suppose you wanted a spellcaster to use a staff and Glamdring? Why not? What about an unarmed thief? The limiting factor would be armor and weapons. You aren't going to be able to tuck-and-roll wearing plate as you might in padded and you aren't going to be doing fancy evasions with both fists full of staff and blade. The operative elements here are speed, encumbrance and strength. One's fighting style must be adjusted accordingly, perhaps some open and some close depending on how you're equipped (and trained, of course). Fast weapons with quick evasions are one style with particular animations. Medium-distance weapons such as swords and maces (or two-handed) are another ("sword-and-board"). Heavy mauling hammers and zweihanders are a third. Ranged attackers are the fourth. That's it. Four animation sets usable by anyone with the training and a sufficiently low encumbrance. I guess you'd want a fifth for magic animations. Okay, a sixth for unarmed, but again, there's no reason why every character wouldn't be able to use that. They might lean more toward particular types of combat, but a "class" per se isn't really necessary. What is important is how the player wants to fight when they must fight and how much training and effort they want to put into fighting versus other pursuits. I know what I have said is akin to heresy and it will probably be easier for people to latch on to "Fighter SMASH" and "thief backstab!" but that's also sailing perilously close to lawsuit territory for infringement of other gaming systems. Eternity needs to be its' own IP, so the notion that one could learn and use different styles of combat ("I see your Eagle Claw Style, but it is no match for the DIVINE FIST!!!") is important. Perhaps one might grow more accomplished at certain styles and test to obtain higher rings of mastery ("You perceive that I have but two rings of mastery on Eagle Claw... now see my TRUE MASTERY OF THE IRON BLADE!!!" or "Perhaps, but my Eagle Claw is augmented by the POWER OF ZUUL!!!"). Could be a lot of fun!