qloher

You are missing the point. RPGs are not only about a story, they are also about role-playing, that is about doing what you want to do, behaving the way you want to behave, having priorities you have chosen to have. More like you don't understand that it's a designer to decide what options to role-play you get because a game will obviously have limitations since it has to be finished and then released. And since games are always limited obvious that some content will get in and some other won't. Now,how do we decide wich gets in and wich doesn't? Player demand for fanservice or artistic considerations? It really isn't so hard to understand. What if their artistic considerations are going to overlap with the player demand? Is it bad? Or is it bad to listen to player demand when you are sitting on the fence on some issue?

You are missing the point. RPGs are not only about a story, they are also about role-playing, that is about doing what you want to do, behaving the way you want to behave, having priorities you have chosen to have.

They obviously have some fans, their games still sell in the millions. And why are they here? Obviously bioware makes the kind of games they need. And obviously they like their writing style. Why the need to tell every other cRPG developer have the same style? Again, I'm sorry and I'm asking for your forgiveness, but Obsidian is actually my favourite RPG developer ever. I guess this has something to do with my presence here... You certainly don't showcase that. @Merin I already wrote my thoughts about Hepler. If you can't see wrong with someone hating combat in video games, while working on those kinds of games, nothing I say will change that. Well, neither do you. The thread derailed into a conversation about BioWare now, logically we are not speaking about Obsidian. Or maybe in your mind BioWare hate somehow automatically equals Obsidian love? This line of thought is fundamentally flawed I should say. I didn't say anything about Obsidian; and I do like a lot of their writing decisions. You are the one wanting Bioware "romances"(Ugh, I said it again!), defend their writers, when numerous people have illustrated why they are bad writers, and take anything we say as "hating", when we are just being objective. Then you tell me that Obsidian is your favourite company and expect me to not doubt that? I don't want "BioWare romances" whatever this even supposed to mean. I want just romances. If we look at the full list of Obsidian's games released so far we will find out there are more games with romances than without them in that list. Should we incorporate a term "Obsidian romances" or something? Also good luck with being "objective" about the art category, that's pretty wrong and I'm not going to go there any further. Also feel free to bash BioWare's Mac Walters and Casey Hudson, those I'm not going to protect at all in any situation.

They obviously have some fans, their games still sell in the millions. And why are they here? Obviously bioware makes the kind of games they need. And obviously they like their writing style. Why the need to tell every other cRPG developer have the same style? Again, I'm sorry and I'm asking for your forgiveness, but Obsidian is actually my favourite RPG developer ever. I guess this has something to do with my presence here... You certainly don't showcase that. @Merin I already wrote my thoughts about Hepler. If you can't see wrong with someone hating combat in video games, while working on those kinds of games, nothing I say will change that. Well, neither do you. The thread derailed into a conversation about BioWare now, logically we are not speaking about Obsidian. Or maybe in your mind BioWare hate somehow automatically equals Obsidian love? This line of thought is fundamentally flawed I should say.

They obviously have some fans, their games still sell in the millions. And why are they here? Obviously bioware makes the kind of games they need. And obviously they like their writing style. Why the need to tell every other cRPG developer have the same style? Again, I'm sorry and I'm asking for your forgiveness, but Obsidian is actually my favourite RPG developer ever. I guess this has something to do with my presence here...

Well, I just can't force myself not to love DAO. Please forgive me about that, I'm so sorry ...

Gaider's quote I was able to google in 30 seconds: "I find Twilight both fascinating and horrifying".

That "innocent, kind, respectful, and logical person" was actually the most useless person ever, having extensive authority and doing nothing with it, passively looking from the distance. Negotiations were also all for nothing, nearly delaying the inevitable. The city was a boiling pot with a lid welded down to it, it had to explode at some point, to think otherwise is a self-delusion.

So wait... you're upset that the game had a game in it and wasn't just a interactive movie? I have to kill dozens of enemies to reach the next bit of dialogue in a BG game as well. Also despite her apparent distaste for gameplay the gameplay in ME3 was incredibly well done. They combat was probably the best out of the 3 games. Also I don't see what the lead writers preferences have to do with anything. I mean to hear you say 'yaoi fangirl at that' just implies some absurd level of distain for a person you don't know. It's not unlike people saying, 'oh, you play video games? I'm sure your a 40 year old virgin living in your mothers basement with no friends and no life.' It's a complete cop-out. Her enjoyment of fanfiction, yaoi, or a combination of both have nothing to do with her ability as a writer. I think the story and world of mass effect were told in very convincing way. Granted it's just my opinion, but it's got nothing to do with her personal life only on the games. I'm willing to accept it if you thought the story sucked in the games but it's got nothing to do with her hobbies. Jennifer Hepler has nothing to do with Mas Effect 3 or any other Mass Effect game, nor does she has anything to do with gameplay at all. Geez, she is a writer, she wrights things, not design playing mechanics. She is in Dragon Age team exclusively.

Where? Who? The "Up against the wall" Isabela? Or the "virginal girl next door" Meril? Or the hawksexual terrorist, that every important person ignores at the end? The hawksexual terrorist first and foremost. Loved his magic trick in the end. Other two are also good, also I handed Isabella over to Qunari in act 2, but that was for roleplay reasons, not because I hated how the character was written or something. Have no idea how she is in the third act through.

Jennifer Hepler never was a lead writer to any BioWare game, educate yourself. Also some of here characters are mighty good.

Ok now you are trolling. I ignore the other two, but with these ones no one with a brain should take you seriously. You don't have to like their storylines, but Tali and Merrill had their own problems that were not linked with the main character in any way. Tali had the difficoult relationship with her race and her father, Merrill had her quest for the Eluvian. I hate Merrill and I consider her a childish emo girl that does nothing else but cry around and complain that no one wants to help her, but this is just a personal judgement. Facts are that romancing her is totally optional, her storyline goes on with or without you by her side. Actually DA2 managed to do a pretty good job with making romanceable characters you chose not to romance still interesting. For me the most interesting character there was Anders even through I newer tried to romance him at all. ME2 on the other hand (even through I like this game much) had some obvious problems in that regard. Jack and Garrus for example had nothing to tell you later in the game unless romanced.

Not every film, book or game do not have romances, so why should this have them not?

I'm pretty sure the statements they've made (at least the ones I've read) have summed up to "Romances can be tricky to do right, but inclusion of any will be dependent on how the characters and story shape up". In other words they'd only include them if they make sense for the game and they think they can do them in a way that - to them - works. And that is exactly what I've told. Officially romances are nor confirmed, nor denied for the time being.

Thing is, romance presence or absence is now up in the air with no 100% clear statement from developers announcing they've chosen to go one way or the other. Also people here have strong opinions on the topic. Hence we have this hot discussion. With other aspects of the game we either already have a valid information on if something is there or not and how it will be implemented if it is, either people do not have strong opinions, that is to say people can easily go whatever way. Hence those are no controversy material, hence no big discussions. I mean we all agree we don't want PE to be a hack and slash for example, we all know Obsidian guys are not going to turn this into a hack and slash, hence there is nothing to talk about on that matter.

So we are to share our BW experience in this topic, right? Baldur's Gate - I was pretty much late for the party with this game, playing it after both Fallouts and tons of other later RPGs. So for me it was absolutely unimpressive. Companions you can't really talk to, fetch side quests appearing in your journal automatically without asking if you are even interested in taking them, clunky combat etc. Stoped playing it right after arriving to the city of Baldur's Gate, so it was pretty late in the game I guess. Newer even started Baldur's Gate II. Looking how everyone is prizing those games pretty much everywhere I may give them another chance with Enhanced Editions. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic - really good game, yet not good enough to be awesome. KotOR2 blew it out of the water completely being much better in almost everything even in the butchered state it has been released at. Jade Empire - characters were pretty dull and uninteresting, I newer liked how the word's philosophy has been handled so I stopped playing after completing like 70% of the game. Mass Effect - solid good game. Not awesome, but pretty enjoyable. Dragon Age: Origins - absolutely awesome, one of the best games I ever played. Mass Effect 2 - big improvement over the first one. There were some flaws like killing and resurrecting the MC in first five minutes for lulz, but in overall it was awesome. Dragon Age II - was rushed and full of obvious flaws like those cursed recycled areas everywhere (no one can argue with that). Enemies running in waves were also silly. Still I liked party interactions very much and the main plot was really good mostly, so it is a good game for me in the end. Not as good as it should have been, not superb, but also not terrible like a lot of people suggest. Mass Effect 3 - worst game ever. People involved did bad and should feel bad. Also it was ruined by all the streamlining and autodialogues long before the ending.

I salute you for for bringing this up. Awesome idea.

No Fallouts in the poll? No Arcanum?

By the way, BSN-based bullying looks pretty pathetic. It kinda shows when your opponent's only argument is a name-calling founded on anecdotal assumptions.

First off, the meter isn't required to be seen by the player, it's just a variable on the background. Second not everyone will care about everything(except from a paladin, or any other kind of extreme lawful aligned character, perhaps). Third nesting of structures helps. Fourth C&C, choices should matter, so flags should still exist. I don't think I have ever argued against the first two statements. I actually agree with those. Also I have nothing against flags, actually I'm all for them, as many as humanly possible. If guys at Obsidian are able to make hella lot of flags per companion system that actually works - props to them, that would be absolutely awesome. Better maybe some kind of a flag/meter hybrid with lots of different flags and lots of different meters. That would be basically a dream come true.

Which I can tolerate fine as a black box mechanism, but under no circumstances would I ever tolerate a visible meter of any sort in relation to character development. That just cheapens the entire effort into a very visible minigame. Copious amounts of flaming dog feces upon certain doorsteps.... Makes sense. Influence/friendship/whatever meters don't work. By adding them, you make the player pick dialogue options not based on his/her opinions or feelings, but rather what he thinks the NPC wants to hear, to get a relationship boost and unlock new conversations or bonuses. It might be better if it's hidden, but still I'd rather not have such mechanics. Only when you are metagaminng or roleplaying a complete flatterer. If it's the first option, then congratulations, you are ruining the game for yourself by your own choice. Influence meters are the only way to keep non player characters reactive to player's choices throughout the game. Or we can simply have them react to flags for previous events/choices and the one currently in. No? You can't really base a general attitude of a certain NPC towards the player on dozens of fundamentally different flags, that would be a mess and a designer's nightmare. Unless there are like 4 flags per character per game. Flags are good for permanent underlying reactions like "player kills an innocent civilian/child => companion X now hates and wants to kill you no matter your previous relationships" or said 4 flags per 4 crucial points. For more trivial things there should be a meter.

Influence/friendship/whatever meters don't work. By adding them, you make the player pick dialogue options not based on his/her opinions or feelings, but rather what he thinks the NPC wants to hear, to get a relationship boost and unlock new conversations or bonuses. It might be better if it's hidden, but still I'd rather not have such mechanics. Only when you are metagaminng or roleplaying a complete flatterer. If it's the first option, then congratulations, you are ruining the game for yourself by your own choice. Influence meters are the only way to keep non player characters reactive to player's choices throughout the game.

This explains a lot, actually. Indeed.

Why? There will be mods for PE, we can't stop it at this point even if we wanted to - and Nexus is arguably the best place to put them on. Where else would you want to see them? In a place where there are limits about what is allowed. And also in a place where it's not populated by bethesda fatboys that download porn mods primarily. What's up with this totalitarian mindset? So trying to deny people romances in the main game is not enough, now you are willing to deny them to have theirs in their personal small apartment HDD mod space? Ban and censor the opposition right in their homes? I don't care about what they have, or do, in their homes. But there should always be limits in a community, both on-line and off-line. It can't just be "anything goes". There is no totalitarian mindset, it's logic. And where the line lies is of cause for you to decide, right? Yes! That's exactly it. I'm the perfect person for this job! That's what I'm saying. You got me right there! You really need to get out. Well that is a totalitarian mindset in it's finest. On Nexus you can go to your profile preferences and block all adult content for yourself in two clicks, so there is no way for you to run into it. But even if something has zero contact with you, the very thought of it's existence makes your skin itch.

Why? There will be mods for PE, we can't stop it at this point even if we wanted to - and Nexus is arguably the best place to put them on. Where else would you want to see them? In a place where there are limits about what is allowed. And also in a place where it's not populated by bethesda fatboys that download porn mods primarily. What's up with this totalitarian mindset? So trying to deny people romances in the main game is not enough, now you are willing to deny them to have theirs in their personal small apartment HDD mod space? Ban and censor the opposition right in their homes? I don't care about what they have, or do, in their homes. But there should always be limits in a community, both on-line and off-line. It can't just be "anything goes". There is no totalitarian mindset, it's logic. And where the line lies is of cause for you to decide, right?