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Stun

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Everything posted by Stun

  1. Stun
    Indeed. And, of course, implementing such a thing in a believable way in a video game would require a whole new level of time and other resources. I can't see it ever being done in any Kickstarter game. Well, Unless the game itself is an actual Dating Sim, where the Romance is literally the main plot. ^And this just adds weight to Josh Sawyer's explanation on this thread that the reason there will be no romances in PoE is because Obsidian neither has the time nor the resources to do them well. Ironically though, in the worst Romance in Obsidian History (Elanee's, NWN2) they tried a variation of what you're describing. They didn't follow through with it though, and it ended up not mattering. In NWN 2, if you leave Elanee at Duncan's Inn and don't take her along on your Act I adventures, or if you pay more attention to the other Female NPCs, she will eventually give you a tongue lashing, accusing you of "forgetting" about her. But again, it goes nowhere, and you don't lose any influence with her, so.... wasted opportunity.
  2. Stun
    And Dragon Age 2 is not "okay". It's not even just "bad". It's far worse. It gets its own classification of Fail. But we can talk about it on some other thread.
  3. Stun
    Planescape Torment didn't have romances. Edit: which says a lot. It's tangible proof that you can have untra-rich, ultra-deep, ultra-interesting NPCs, NPC dialogues, and NPC storytelling in a video game... without romances... without the "I love you's" and without the standard "yes love?" every time you click on your LI.
  4. Stun
    took long enough for many of them. You can't begin to count the nr of mods there are for Fallout 3/nv which has tools released. The nr of mods for the IE games are fairly limited in the years since they've been released. I'm sure "modders will find a way" but it will be at the expense of a large potential userbase who would otherwise have exercised their creativity, but now leave it to the dedicated few, willing to work with opaque tools and home-made solutions. Just how many potential modders do you think PoE can ever have anyway, even IF they released a toolset?
  5. Stun
    It ain't that bad. There were no modding tools released for the IE games either. Didn't stop modders from successfully modding the bejeebers out of ALL of them anyway.
  6. Stun
    As well written and masterfully weaved into the storyline as Safiya's character is, her romance (or at least her romance dialogue) suffers from the exact same fatal flaw that Elanee's does in the OC: the obligatory, Ham-fisted, mood-killing dialogue option at the end where the NPC says they love you and then force you to confirm or deny that you feel the same way. When the day comes that Video game writers learn to employ subtlety, I will be the first to support Romances in video games. But until then....
  7. Stun
    That, and this was actually 3 different threads that got merged to one. Personally though, I thought there was stuff in that Eurogamer interview that was more interesting, and more worthy of debate than the pronouncement of "No-Romances-Sorry".
  8. Stun
    Don't forget the inventory-slot babies and elven fairy wings. There is one good thing that came out of the Aerie Romance in BG2: The awesome dialogue option you got when she tells you she's pregnant: Aerie: "Blah, blah, blah, I'm gonna have your baby...blah blah blah" You: "That's nice. Take a hike, Mommy."
  9. Stun
    In fact, Obsidian has never done a good romance. Ever. Look at NWN2, and Mask of the Betrayer. Brilliantly written Characters in Both, but the Romances were god-awful. Cringeworthy. total black marks on both titles. So yeah, if Obsidian sucks so spectacularly at writing romances, then I'd rather they not taint POE by trying again.
  10. Stun
    They can do this without the lovey-dovey Romances. In fact, they did that with BG2 and Planescape Torment. A couple of the Romances in BG2 (especially Jahiera's) weren't really "romances" at all. They were simply good friendships. And I'd argue that the only reason they felt "deep" was because BG2 is a huuuuge game and Bioware did a decent job of spreading out the NPC interjections from beginning to end to make it feel like you were in a long term relationship with the NPC. You really DID get to know your party members...on a personal level. And PS:T? There weren't any romances in that game. There were 2 flirt sessions with Annah, and a lingering memory of one (Deionarra). Yet there's almost universal agreement that of all the IE games, Planescape did it best.
  11. Stun
    Challenges are not tied to an advancement mechanic at all. You can have challenges without advancement mechanics. Not in an RPG, no. Fixed. You were actually pretty close though. No, you can buy clothes and stuff. You sure? So stat increases only happen in Association mode?
  12. Stun
    Challenges (what you admitted must be in a role playing game) IS tied to an advancement mechanic, Kaine. Intrinsically, even. Can't have a role playing game without it. But you can have an adventure game without it. No. What I'm saying does not contain an iota of faith. This whole conversation is more like this: Me: "before water can be considered frozen, its temperature must be at least 32 degrees or lower." You: "Prove it!" Me: "Fine, show me Frozen water with a temperature higher than 32 degrees." You: "I don't have to. My definition of 'Frozen water" does not require it! You're a Retard!" You create the player, teammates react to how you play, have to choose endorsements, have C&C talks with the GM. Interesting. If you successfully play that character, and win games with him, Do his stats increase?
  13. Stun
    Alright. You, yourself, acknowledged that in addition to Role playing, an RPG requires rules/challenges. Now, what separates an RPG's Rules/challenges from a Sports game's rules/challenges (like Madden, or NBA2k13), or an Adventure game's (like Tomb Raider, or Longest Journey) is that in an RPG, the rewards for overcoming the Challenges IS manifested in the advancement/leveling of the protagonist, instead of just an advancement of the story/game itself. LOL Bioware's recent releases aside, what Role are you playing in NBA2K13's Career Mode? What exactly are you doing besides controlling a team or a player?
  14. Stun
    I don't have to. The definition does not require it Yeah it does. Especially since you're here claiming that friggin NBA 2k13 is an RPG.
  15. Stun
    Exactly. And in a cRPG, #2 IS an advancement/leveling mechanic, otherwise it's just an adventure game (Like Tomb Raider). If you disagree, then show me an RPG that doesn't have one.
  16. Stun
    No, he hasn't. And if he had, he'd still be wrong. Role-playing is simply one gaming mechanic. A mechanic that can (and does) exist in games that Aren't RPGs. Kaine even gave an example of a Sports game that has RP elements.
  17. Stun
    I can't give you an example because you're asking me to provide an example of something that I've never argued should exist. Really? You haven't argued that Roleplaying is the ONLY thing required for something to be called an RPG? Was it a different KaineParker, then, who said this? ^Emphasis yours. And I'll repeat myself. Show me one RPG in the history of computer gaming that had Roleplaying and nothing else. You can't. Because there are none. Because what you're saying is false. An RPG requires Roleplaying and other mechanics, otherwise it won't be a game.
  18. Stun
    Besides, 2 people "agreeing" with you does not suddenly mean your illogical tripe isn't.
  19. Stun
    You can't give me an example because you know I'm right. An RPG requires Roleplaying and other gaming mechanics, otherwise, it won't be a game.
  20. Stun
    I used the word game in every instance, it was clear I was talking about games specifically. If that went over your head, you should become acquainted with the function of nouns. I see. So then, you should have no problems whatsoever citing me one Game.... one Role Playing Game in the history of computer gaming, that had Role Playing and NOTHING ELSE. Oh Boy! A Likes contest!! What are you, 12?
  21. Stun
    I would laugh at this, but I'm starting to think you really are this obtuse. In every instance discussing Role-Playing Games, I used the word "Game". Game is a noun, Stun. Surely I don't have to explain the concept of a noun to you? If I say "the only thing a role-playing game requires to be a role-playing game is role-playing", it is very clear to anyone with a basic understanding of English that I'm talking about a game. Not a graphic novel, television show, software program, chat room, or novel, but a game. If you aren't capable of following that, then I highly suggest taking a beginner's course in English. But it's not even a GAME unless it has other mechanics. It's just an interactive story. like a Choose-your-own-adventure e-book.
  22. Stun
    Interesting choice of words! You've moved the goal posts. LOL I see you're no longer arguing that to be an RPG, it need only have Role playing and nothing else. Now you're readily admitting that it also needs to be a game. Well, that's true, isn't. Because if it had role playing, and nothing else, it'd just be a graphic novel... a visual Choose-Your-Own-Adventure. And those aren't games.
  23. Stun
    Not as such, but that can be done with Characters in Mortal Kombat. And for that matter, you can jab and uppercut in Punchout, can a level 1 fighter do that in BG1? Yes, which are all things a level 1 Fighter can do in Baldur's Gate. You have played the game, right? I have, yes. Back to the question: No, it would take a rather liberal reading to come to either one of those conclusions. Bullsh^t. We were comparing Punch-out to fighters in BG1 and those were the only 2 mechanics you managed to cite as differences. What conclusion should one draw? I, of course, can cite at least a dozen more differences, but then again, I'm not the one claiming that there's only ONE thing that can make a game an RPG.... you are. And I pointed out that a Fighter could do far more in Baldur's gate than the toon could do in Punch-Out. Baldur's Gate is more than a series of combat encounters featuring a single toon. Actually, you only cited 2 (minor) differences. 1) exploration 2) party-based mechanics. Ironically, neither of these are Role-playing mechanics. But hey, I don't blame you. The deeper you dig into BG1, the more you'll come to realize that if you strip everything away from it, leaving only its trivial Roleplaying, you end up with a broken thing that can hardly even be called a game. You'll be able to do none of these things without the leveling mechanic that's imbedded into the game, save for rejecting Gorion's advice. And if they were to re-create the game without a leveling mechanic, and say, just have you start off with max health and fighting skills, then, like I said, you'd end up with a Boring, pointless adventure game, and not necessarily an RPG at all. It has a substantial amount of bearing. It has a huge upward climb with a ton of risk if it doesn't deliver on the genre it claim it is. A game advertised and sold as an RPG but turns out to be nothing more than Flight Simulator with some "RPG mechanics" weaved into it, will probably Fail to sell, since flight-sim fans won't know about its existance, and RPG fans who bought it had nothing but negative word of mouth to say, since they wanted an RPG and got a Flight sim instead. These Genre labels do not exist in a vacuum. They exist to define a game and assist in the selling/marketing process. Hybrids and freak exceptions happen, but you really can't claim they're any sort of rule here. Eh? What the hell is "John Carter"?
  24. Stun
    Less options for fighters at level 1 at least. A level 1 fighter can do 1 thing in BG1. Click on something to auto attack/interact with it as the game wills. You are describing 1) exploration; and 2) party based mechanics in a game world here. Is it your contention that these two are required for something to be an RPG? Or are you just changing the subject? I brought up fighters in BG1 because they are the ultimate example of the player being able to do nothing but control a character.... that is, aside from character building... which is the leveling mechanic....which is something you claim isn't required. No. Then you're being hypocritical. Aside from character building, and Party gameplay/management, there are very few Roleplaying opportunities in BG1. Yes there is. It's called the laws of capitalism. A product will fail if it can't sell. There's not a single computer role playing game in history that has only had Roleplaying. Ask yourself why. No, check that. I'll tell you why. Because it wouldn't be a game. It would be a remarkably boring (and redundant) story-telling vehicle that goes nowhere. It'd be no different than reading a Choose-your-own-adventure book on your Kindle....for 60 hours. Then the industry is wrong Indeed. The entire industry is wrong (and has been wrong for the last 20 years.) Only Kaine is correct. World according to KainParker and all that.
  25. Stun
    That's tons more than what you can do with your fighter in BG1. Hell, you don't even get to choose your Fighter's attacks in BG1, you simply point and click and the game does the rest. You gonna argue that BG1 isn't an RPG? Role-Playing does not require an advancement mechanic. Role-Playing Games do not require an adbancement mechanic, they require role-playing. If they required an advancement mechanic, they would be called "advancement mechanic game". No, they can't be called "advancement mechanic games", and this isn't an either/or. An RPG must have BOTH Role playing and an advancement mechanic. Ok, Kaine, try and keep up. We are NOT discussing the definition of role playing. We are discussing the definition of Role Playing GAME. There is a difference here because a Role playing GAME must contain multiple features, with Roleplaying being just one of them. Diablo and Dungeon Siege are hack-and-slash action games, not Role-Playing games, so that isn't relevant. Nope. They're action role playing games. Defined as such by the industry and by the developers themselves. And that's where your argument falls flat.
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