Stun

Is the "deep stash" going to be list based? Because I'm finding it kinda hard to picture an unlimited slot screen.

From how it's being described, I'm not a fan of this bizzare system. At all. And this makes me doubly sad: IWD2's inventory system was, for lack of a better word, PERFECT. Best slot-based system I've ever seen. You don't overhaul Perfect, lest you end up breaking it and turning it into something less than perfect. And the so-called "degenerate gameplay" argument is bogus. a 6 person party in IWD2 never, ever, filled up all their inventory slots while they were in the middle of a dungeon. Or at least I never did, and I'm the ultimate hoarder. To Josh and Tim: I love you guys and what you're doing, but my spider sense is telling me that you're letting the "We finally get to make the game we want!" thing go to your heads a little too much. IWD2's inventory system doesn't need your "personal touches". It's perfect already. Focus your creativity on something else in the game, please.

What? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity Fast forward to :37, see for yourself. a straight up Name drop of TOEE. . Since PE will have the adventurer's Hall, where we can make our own party, it's not up to Helm to decide what MY typical party will be. . Does it? Do we know for a fact that Stealth will be in the non-combat skills column? I was under the impression that since it's tied to combat (backstabbing, Sneak attacking, combat positioning) that it might, in fact be classified as a combat skill. But we would need Josh or Tim to clarify that.... and they have NOT as of yet.

And that is why you could sneak past every combat situation in Icewind Dale, right?Considering how common potions and spells of invisibility were... yes. lol But everyone had Sneak as an ability in TOEE (for example).... a game specifically named-dropped in the PE kickstater videos.... Depends on the sneak-ers, actually. If I've got a party of barbarians, I'm probably not going to waste skill-points/level ups on advancing my sneak skills. Instead, I'll just build my characters up to focus on combat mastery. But my Rogue and mage parties? Not so much, I'll probably level them to be better sneaks, which means they'll probably not be that great in a straight up fight... which means failing a stealth check could be disasterous.

First off, this whole "EVERY CLASS CAN SNEAK" thing you keep harping on is hardly a talking point. Every class can sneak in 3rd edition D&D as well. Second: I imagine death is a very real possibility, yes, if you built your party up to rely on stealth, and didn't prepare to have to fight...and then you failed to successfully sneak past that massive encounter....and now you have to fight.... I know BG2 punished you harshly for failing to sneak past, say, a group of Beholders. For sneaky characters, getting spotted IS a consequence for failure, just like getting disarmed is for a warrior.

Sneaking is a mechanic that becomes much much MUCH more convoluted/difficult when you're controlling an entire party. Sawyer gave a theoretical, and very general outline about different degrees of difficulty (ie. it will be easier to avoid detection when you're 15 feet away than it will be when you're 5 feet away. He also hinted that rogues will, by the nature of their class skills, have an easier time sneaking) But he didn't, at all, say whether sneaking will be easier or more difficult relative to combat (which is what WE are discussing here) More importantly, he did NOT address the chances of success when your entire party is trying to sneak, nor did he mention any variables that affect even solo stealth (day vs. night; light armor vs heavy; Line of sight; enemy numbers; environments; enemy levels; Enemy mages with detection spells; gear that gives stealth bonuses; Gear that reduces stealth success; player actions while in stealth. etc... etc...) Helm, you can only go so far with the pontifications before it becomes clear to everyone that the entire point of your posts is to criticize the developer, and not the actual game mechanic.

HA. You're stating an assumption as fact. That may be true in the Infinity engine games, but You have no idea how difficult successfully stealthing past encounters is going to be in this game. Josh has been deliberately vague on the subject. And for that matter, we don't know how easy combat is going to be either. I can totally see them making a system where combat ends up being the fall-back, "if all else fails", option for the lousy character builds who lack the skills to complete quests in more complicated, dynamic ways. This is the twilight-zone section of the internet. Must be. Because just about everywhere else, the notion of rewarding players for coming up with more creative solutions to problems is actually applauded. In fact.... I'd argue that by keeping the EXP rewards equal, Obsidian is still not doing it right. Non-combat solutions to combat encounters should yield *more* exp than just mindlessly smashing every hostile you see. I don't know how your DM handled things in your Pen and Paper D&D sessions, but mine awarded us massive XP bonuses if we actually thought outside the box and managed to trick our way past an encounter.

Yes, I edited my post later to directly address this point of yours. Sorry. Again. it's erroneous to claim that there will be no xp rewards for killing things when the system you're describing *literally* rewards you exp for murdering your way through quests.

Edit: Ok, so we can complete quests 1) by engaging in combat and 2) killing things. Split hairs if you wish, but the bottom line here is that by your own admission the system rewards you exp for engaging in combat and killing things Er... so the claim that you get "zip-zero-nada" exp for combat/killing is ridiculously false. So stop making it.

I never brought up bounty hunter quests. You did. My point is that Josh and Obsidian will not be able to avoid putting combat-based questlines into PE, and since we WILL be gaining exp rewards for completing quests, then that means we will literally be getting EXP for killing things, we'll just be getting it when that quest is completed instead of after every enemy we kill (which btw, does nothing but promote the grinding game) I don't understand the butthurt you people have with such a system. It doesn't make killing things pointless (or whatever the gripe is) since the classic #1 reason for killing something in an RPG is still there: Loot. I don't know about you, but my motivation for killing Drizzt in BG1 was NOT to "gain 12,000 exp", but to get his shiny weapons.

That's....not the example I gave. The example I gave was "clear this cave" Ok, so I clear the cave. I just kill everything in the way. I am rewarded for doing so. In total 1% of the game is made up of "clearing your path" quests.Nonsense. Lets take a look at the main plotline for BG2 Chapter 2/3 - If you side with the Thieves guild they ask you to go clear out Bodhi's lair. if you side with the Vampires, you're asked to go clear out the Thieves guild Chapter 4 - your quest is to fight your way out of the Asylum (literally. Bhodi informs you that you're her rat in a cage and your goal is to try and escape, by fighting.) Chapter 5 - The gnomes ask you to kill a demon. Then Adelon asks you to infiltrate a drow city, which means you deal with the matron mother---who asks you to go clear out a nearby cave and get some boss' blood. Chapter 6- You're asked to clear out Bhodi's lair again Chapter 7 - you're asked to clear Suldanessalar of irenicus's minions -then you're asked to clear the tree of life of Irenicus's minions ---then you go to hell and have to fight Irenicus and his minions. And that's just the critical plotline. Would you like the laundry list of "clear area x" side quests in BG2? Or better yet, would you like to Discuss Throne of Bhaal, which was 100% "clear this area" quests?

That's....not the example I gave. The example I gave was "clear this cave"

Yes it is. Kill all, kill some or kill none. You always get the same amount of xp.Not to turn this into a semantics argument, but a quest that rewards you for, say, clearing out a troll infested castle (ie. killing mobs) is.... rewarding you for killing mobs. The fact that you can also get the same exp for peacefully talking the trolls into leaving is... beside the point. Hilarious that you'd say this in light of your multi-page condemnation of J. E. Sawyer's opinions on BG2. BG2 was ~75% "bounty-hunter" quests. Are you suggesting that we all share Sawyer's opinions on BG2?

This isn't true. All we've been told on the matter is that you simply won't get experience per kill. But completing a combat based quest will, in fact, yield exp, since that constitutes an accomplishment. Update 7 with Tim Cain http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts?page=7

Yes. Actually, I was under the impression (from watching The early PE updates with Tim Cain) that, technically speaking, you WILL get EXP for kills.... If it happens to be at the end of a combat-related quest. For example, lets say some guy in town sends your party on a mission to clear out a cave. Well, if that cave is full of goblins, and you kill them and report back, THAT is when you'll be getting your EXP. But of course, since you're getting your exp in a deferred lump sum manner (ie. quest experience), instead of getting it immediately after dropping 1 goblin at a time (xp per kill), some people here are getting all up in arms.

That, and who on this thread argued that xp for kills didn't exist in the past? I sure as hell didn't. Apparently being Old does not prevent people from making straw man arguments. lol

You know, if Josh disliked the BG series, then it stands to reason that he disliked it even as he was working on IWD and IWD2.... yet those games still had *so much* in common with the BGs, despite Blackisle's attempts to make them deliberately different. Same engine, same UI, same rule set, same game world, same approach to detail (item descriptions, same trash loot et. al.) Same party formations, very similar tactical gameplay feel. And lets keep in mind that IWD2 was Josh's baby. He was lead designer for it, yet it *still* gave off the same "vibe". Had it come out 10 years later and been advertized as a "spiritual successor" to the BG series, we all would have played it and nodded our heads saying: "eh, pretty darn close, yes".

Also... even if Sawyer comes here tomorrow and clarifies that he hates BG2, it doesn't necessarily mean anything for PE itself, does it? I would hope not. The whole point of a kickstarter is to make a game that the Fans/Backers want. And I'm pretty sure a professional like Sawyer can still do a great job working on a few game elements that he doesn't love in order to reach that goal. And correct me if I'm wrong, but Sawyer isn't the head honcho of this project anyway, Feargus is. And Feargus himself has repeatedy said he wants PE to be a game that reminds us of BG. And I doubt his input is going to just be swept aside here.

Click the button on the top left of the toolbar in the editor. It is called "BBCode Mode" and looks like a light switch.neat! Thanks.

You mean....no point in murder-grinding.... which is a staple of modern RPGs and MMOs, and IMO needs to be toned down about 20 notches. its a stupid, mindless concept. There's a bajillion other ways to gain exp in a role-playing game, but most have been completely forgotten over the years, and the result? We've now got people like you who don't know what role-playing even is - that actually equate killing exclusively with EXP, to the point where they cannot conceive of other ways to gain levels. Play Planescape Torment sometime and you'll see how wonderful it is to get your exp from talking (for example) instead of just racking up kills. Oh, and there's a whole lot more to exploration than just going out and making things die. Not sure why you even brought up exploration, as the concept itself is virtually unrelated to combat.

Now you're showing us polearms. Dishonest, since that weapon type doesn't actually have a unique critical hit animation in TOEE. Instead, it just has 2 different attack Animations, regardless of whether it hits, misses, or crits.

No, that's not different animations, It's the exact same animation as a hit, only the full animation is not playing Are you serious? Or is this some childish stunT despite all the evidence directly in front of your nose? The miss animation has the sword going in a different direction and the sword stops somewhere behind the character, on the normal hit the sword almost makes a semicircle around the character. These are 2 completely different animations. And I'll finish my sentence from the previous post. If you can't see the difference, there are surely some issues with nerve connections between your eyes and brain. I'd suggest you check it out asap. Have you actually played Temple of Elemental Evil? Or are you just watching you tube videos of it? The standard hit animations in the game are exactly the same as the miss animations in the game, except the former hits the target after a full swing animation, while the latter ends 3/4 of the way, hitting air next to the target. Oh and BTW, While you're busy splitting hairs about 2 vs. 3, TOEE has far more significant animation limitations that you've totally ignored. Similar weapons share Animations. For instance, longswords and bastard swords use the exact same animations. Greataxes and Greatswords use the exact same animations....etc. Now, I don't know about you, but that's a much Much bigger issue in my book. When I'm using a Greatsword, I expect the animation for it to be different than an Axe

No, that's not different animations, It's the exact same animation as a hit, only the full animation is not playing

Did it? I don't remember that. I remember only 2 per weapon. 1. the basic attack animation and 2. the critical hit animation No. The animation is different for miss, as well. That's 3 times as many attack animations. They were aestetically pleasing and well done, too. 2:44 Er... there's only 2 animations per weapon-type in this video. 1) attack 2)critical hit. Misses didn't look any different from basic attacks. They just had different sound effects, and of course, they swung at air. The animations themselves, though, were exactly the same as a standard hit.

Did it? I don't remember that. I remember only 2 per weapon. 1. the basic attack animation and 2. the critical hit animation