bradleypariah

So, after all is said and done, although I would like the chance to look around once in a while to take in all the pretty surroundings, I would like to say that this is one of the best games I've ever played. I know the game didn't grab the best reviews out there, but you know what? F those reviewers!!! My girlfriend and I finally beat this game the other night (2 on the couch + 2 strangers online) and we had the time of our lives. We'll probably play all the way through this one more time, but we're on the prowl for our next title. I normally play Fallout 3, New Vegas, Borderlands, Mass Effect, etc. but my girlfriend won't play first-person shooters, nor will she play a game in split-screen. This throws out a lot of game options. So, here it is: I want to play another game like this one. I realize there aren't a lot (if any) out there. It needs to be available for PC, wireless 360 controller-enabled, couch-co-op, shared screen, that plays out "like a movie" (as she put it), meaning very story-driven and heavy on the RPG stuff. Can anyone help? I have looked here: http://www.co-optimus.com/ and found some good leads, but all I can do is YouTube videos of gameplay. I realize The First Templar got bad reviews too, but my main interest is just killing/hacking/slashing and experiencing a story. Help please, and thank you in advance.

What about Star Wars: The Old Republic?

You have a point there.

I'm not mad you said that, I just honestly wish it weren't true. It's one of the coolest games I've ever played. WTF is wrong with people. GRRR!!!

I love the game too. One thing to consider about a possible sequel - although SEGA is no longer on board, it doesn't mean Obsidian can't get published through someone else. SEGA's dropped a lot of cool developers that went on to make more titles. No offense to any SEGA fanboys out there, but can't we agree that SEGA isn't the best at investment decisions? Even when they're leading the pack and ahead of the times they manage to fu(k things up quite nicely.

^^^^^^^Thumbs up on all of those

Agreed. With both of you. Whole-heartedly!

lol. You're hopeless. Have you never installed a mod on ANYTHING to simply enjoy it... MORE? You are aware that there are these things called "mods", right? -and that thousands upon thousands of people install these mods to games they have previously purchased every day? -and that the intention of these mods is to bring new functionality that was previously missing or desired? -and that the common reason these mods exist is because people differ in opinion of what makes a game enjoyable? If this is all too much new information all at once, don't ruin your fragile little narrow view of the world over it. Maybe if you wish hard enough, everyone will just accept games for how they come and no one will try to do anything creative with them ever again. It certainly seems that's what you want, right? You certainly seem intent on shutting down other people's ideas. Quite a few people on here do. It's actually quite sad. It's like you see someone else putting mayonnaise on their own sandwich, and you go yelling to the world about why you personally don't like mayonnaise. Nobody cares if you don't like mayonnaise. It's not your sandwich.

There is a thread in here dedicated to the possibility of a sequel. As far as New Vegas for $20?? BUY IT!!! Fallout 3 is/was my favorite game of all time. You've probably heard New Vegas has bugs. Is that really so shocking?? Fallout 3 had tons of bugs, I just loved it despite the fact. Most major bugs for New Vegas are fixed now anyway, plus the 3rd DLC is coming out soon. The story is good, there's tons of missions, and the game overall is a great value. Plus, if you buy it for PC, there's always the New Vegas Nexus to keep the game going for (almost) forever.

I guess I'm one of the fortunate few that the game never bugged out for. I never understood why on Earth someone would dislike that game. I F'ing love it.

Here you go, Mr. Sarcasm: http://www.cod4boards.com/forum/showthread...1st-Person-View

Right? I can't believe people have the capacity to keep track of people attacking them from behind when you can't zoom out way above your head. You actually have to (*gasp!*) turn around!!! It's totally broken!! OK, look here party people: The flexible camera angle mod for single player is a great idea for those that actually have the ability to appreciate it. It will most likely have to be a community-made mod because Obsidian should not be expected to create sky boxes and ceilings for a game that was never intended to have them, nor should they be expected to put out a patch that reveals a big empty nothingness overhead. It would be unprofessional. We have all agreed it won't really help in combat, so combat would not have to be redesigned. Just leave it alone. The flexible camera angle would most likely only be neat for looking around once in a while, or to make some people feel more comfortable when they're exploring new areas. If you don't like the idea, pat yourself on the back - you actually have your own opinions. Congratulations. If and when the mod becomes available, simply don't download it and shut your pie-hole. No fragile, top-down camera lovers will be forced to use it involuntarily. Officially, Couch co-op needs the option of being zoomed out further. Internet co-op needs separate screens and save-able, independent XP & inventory. ----------------------- I think if we could all agree with what we want, the developers might be more keen to try to help us. Call me crazy. No one's ideas need to be shot down.

Actually, I've been bouncing back-and-forth between single player and co-op with only the one game. There have no issues such as you speak of. I simply make a conscious decision to not sell her stuff while her character is controlled by the NPC. Whenever she logs in, all her previous gear is there and every time I level up, so does she, and I simply don't level her character for her. When she logs back in, she may be a little lost in the story, but her skill points are right there waiting for her to assign them. I more consider this "my game, but I let her play". If she's not in the mood to play, I play without her. I've considered starting my own single player campaign that I wouldn't let her play, but it really doesn't matter to either one of us.

I personally love this game. My girlfriend likes playing Torchlight, so this isn't too much of a stretch for her. When we play co-op on my machine, any time she joins back in, all her progress, skills, and inventory are still there. If she drops out, her character simply just becomes an NPC with all the perks she's added to it. It's friggin' brilliant. I can understand why people don't much like letting the host keep all the loot in online multiplayer, but in couch co-op it totally works. You two share the same inventory, and your saved games can be single-player or cooperative with the push of a button. It's not going to be like playing Portal, per se. It's more like Torchlight with a controllable camera.... or like Dragon Age with a stubborn one. If you're really only asking about quality -- Quality it is. What's ODS?

What you guys are saying makes sense. I'll take it any way I can get it

You might have enjoyed Oblivion but rock-solid it definitely wasn't. The bad performance, the bad UI, the broken game mechanics, the bugs, the crashes, the horrible VA, and the terrible animations are all things that made Oblivion a terribly unpolished game. Oops, totally spelled the wrong word. I actually meant to say "Obsidian is friggin' awesome". My bad. On that note, however, I loved Oblivion too. Obsidian had nothing to do with that, though. Not sure why I typed Oblivion. I wasn't even thinking about that game. Weird.

Right?? I hate to be labeled a fanboy, and I am full aware of all the bugs that came with New Vegas, but Oblivion is friggin' awesome! This game is rock-solid. No doubt. I don't see why anyone who chose not to use it would complain... right? The people that already have what they want wouldn't even know the new option (that they wouldn't use anyway) was there. That makes sense, doesn't it?

I'm starting to get a clear picture of what you're thinking. You are right, the fighting in OTS view wouldn't work. That's not what I want it for. Please read on. You couldn't be further from the truth, my good sir. I think for battles and such, because of how the targeting system works, it is absolutely necessary to battle while in top-down view. I completely agree with you about that. Maybe I haven't made a solid enough point about that. I don't want this game to be a 3rd-person shooter. Not at all. I want to look forward once in a while so I can just see my surroundings when I'm exploring. It would be neat to look at stuff from that angle. It's fine by me if other people want the camera able to zoom out more (I would even use it too once in a while). I'm asking for FREEDOM of movement. If I got what I'm asking for, EVERYONE would be able to use the camera angle of their choosing. This is certainly not requesting more limitation. I want everything BUT limitation. I just want the "false bottom" of mouse movement removed. The camera, in my opinion, should bottom out just a little bit before it hits the ground. Would that mean we would see black, empty sky boxes? Yes. Don't worry about whether or not I mind seeing them. If you don't like it, don't look forward. The mouse would still go up and down. Get it? You move the mouse up and down as needed, just like you do now, but the 45-degree angle glass floor would be modified so someone could look forward when they wanted to. ***As soon as a battle arose, one would probably need to point the camera back down again and zoom out to use the targeting system effectively. I think that's the point you're trying to make, yes? I'm on your side about that. I want to point out again, that I really like this game. I play RPG's all the time, this is the first one that has inspired my girlfriend to ask, "Can I jump in?" I get to still have my "me time", and yet there she is on the couch with me. This is F'ing RAD.

Oh, gotcha. Misunderstanding. Sorry. Ultimately, it sounds like people want three camera fixes. __________________________________________________________________________ Multiplayers want separate screens. Old-school RPG and RTS top-down players would like the camera able to be zoomed out more so they can see more of their surroundings. New school RPG players wouldn't mind seeing an empty sky box, and would rather be able to zoom in more and look forward once in a while. __________________________________________________________________________ I really wish I knew more about modding. I've used a couple game engines (literally) and I know how to mess with maps, textures, and audio, but where the numbers that control the things such as camera height and angle are located is beyond me. I'd do it my dang self and share it. I looked in the .ini files but they're pretty bare. Nothing really useful in there to tweak.

...for you. It's not an issue... for you. I would thoroughly enjoy this game more if I were able to find a way to look forward when I want to. I know there are no sky boxes. I don't care. Let the sky be a black void. Let there be no ceiling. It would be no more awkward than walls disappearing when they got in the way of my field of view. Get over your contrary opinions, people! You act as though the request for camera freedom would somehow violate you. If it were implemented and you didn't like it, no one would have a gun to your head demanding that you look forward! I disagree that this has something to do with XBOX vs PC, however. How much more wrong could you be? This isn't a PC issue. Obsidian chose this camera view on purpose. I seriously get irritated when people think the only games available on PC are Diablo clones and MMORPG's. Seriously F'ing annoying. The fact that you bought this on console is not a justification in demanding the game be better. In all honestly, without trying to be a fanboy, if you buy something on a console, it is almost certainly going to be worse than it's PC counterpart. Get over it. You didn't spend as much and that's why. ArcaneHoplite, you weren't ripped off when you bought this game. Neither was I. The free demo was available for weeks before the release of this game. I bought this game after playing the demo and knowing full well I didn't like the camera angle. Why? IT'S A GREAT GAME. I like what Obsidian does. You're not alone in disliking the camera angle, but you should try to appreciate the game for what it is for now. I imagine someone will come out with a patch that eventually lets us idiots use the camera the way we want before too long. Until then, you got exactly what you paid for. (edit) oh.... wait. I forgot. If a community-made mod did come out... you wouldn't be able to install it. You'd have to own the PC version.

You don't need to discredit my idea just to share your own.

Exactly! I didn't realize that Obsidian already made a public statement about the sky boxes. I tell you what though, I'd play it that way even if the sky boxes were pitch black above the horizon. I just want to find that one single line in that one single file somewhere that controls that "glass floor" for camera angle. I will find it. Someone out there nerdier than me that knows about these things is just as annoyed as I am. I really like this game, and if I end up beating it before the community-made camera mod comes out, so be it, but I'd play it through again just to able to see.

I see your point entirely, but it kinda depends what's actually there. There are moments when the camera pans around to show you your surroundings, and I've seen ceilings and sky. You could be correct in assuming they are only there for the quick-pans, but who knows until it either gets patched or hacked. It's actually plausible (however unlikely) that the textures for the ceilings in every environment are already there, we just don't see them. Most 3D textures are only visible from one direction anyway. You have to picture skies, walls, the ground, and ceilings like two-way mirrors. If you have ever accidentally fallen through the floor of a game map and looked up, you know what I mean. We quite possibly could be looking through an existing ceiling during the entire game. We simply don't know right now. All of the outside levels wouldn't need anything but a skydome image anyway. Aside from that, let's say there are no ceiling and sky images in place. These textures and images exist within the game, we've seen them. I've worked with game engines before, and it's as simple as making a selection of the entire sky and pressing a quick-key to assign an image - and considering the limited amount of environments in this game, it wouldn't take long to apply them all. Plus, if you didn't look completely parallel to the ground, it would be difficult to see the ceiling and/or sky depending on where you are. Details, my friend. Details. There would be a significant change at 15 degrees from the floor instead of the 45 we have now. I think it's helpful that the camera can currently look down at a nearly 90 degree angle, I do. I just don't see why the camera bottoms out at 45 degrees when you try to look ahead of where you're running. It would mean less bad-guys being able to shoot projectiles at you from off-screen, without having to run in several directions to find out which direction you're being attacked from. Plus, you could gaze at your surroundings much easier to immerse yourself in the game world. After all is said and done, it's called "flexibility". The camera should be able to accommodate someone of your tastes and mine seamlessly. It can be done. I thought this out quite thoroughly before making my first post.

I'd be willing to wager that as soon as community-made mods start to surface (if they surface), someone will find a way to tweak the exact angle the camera sits from the ground. I could care less if there are ceilings. I don't necessarily need to look that high. I just want to see almost parallel to the ground. I personally loved the KotOR camera. KotOR 1 & 2 are the reason I am an RPG fan. Those two games changed my life. Therein lies the drastic difference in our preferences. I want to point out again though, I don't want anyone "stuck in the KOTOR camera", as you put it. Options, man, I just want options. btw - I just played DS3 couch co-op a little bit ago. I still hate the RTS camera style, but it was still pretty fun. I have to say, DS3 is a magically dope-a-licious game... except for the camera.

P.S. - I realize you are a moderator, Tigranes. Please don't ban me! I simply felt like you were shutting down my idea because you have a solution that works for you and many others. I am looking for a solution that works for me - and as a paying customer with a voice, I feel I have a very valid and relevant concern. Plus, my suggestion could theoretically even boost the sales of this game. I am not the only person with an issue with this game's camera. I only want the game to be better. As I stated in my first post, I like this game and I love Obsidian. Please don't view me as hostile. I don't mean to offend. Consider comments like this on this forum: He may have been whining a lot in the rest of his post, but you have to admit, even if you don't agree with someone's point of view, that doesn't mean their money isn't green. Obsidian wants money. I have an idea that would make the game better for theoretically thousands of other potential buyers. My idea would take little-to-no time at all to implement. Case closed, in my eyes.