BruceVC

Bruce, you do realize you're basically saying "I'd never do this because it's dysfunctional, and it's dysfunctional because I said so", right? No as my opinion on this is shaped by 20 years of mistakes, regrets and wisdom Sorry but if you are happy to let your wife sleep with someone else then your marriage is dysfunctional ...somethings cannot be seen in a positive light. Now a person may be gay and not care about the physical aspects of his wife...but then its more special circumstances

Are you seriously saying that something between consenting adults is "worse" than something done without consent? Because AFAIK Hogan and Heather Clem were consenting adults in what they did but they did not consent to being filmed or to having said film distributed by Gawker. "If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die" Deuteronomy 22:22 / You funny Elerond...very appropriate even if I'm a agnostic I know I keep saying this but I don't think I have ever met anyone who is so good at finding relevant links to support a debate as you Can I ask you a question and please be honest as the feedback is important to me. From my side I consider you someone who I have never had any issues having a debate with. I consider our forum interaction very healthy but how have you found me..am I rude at times, condescending? Or am I normal to you ?

Are you seriously saying that something between consenting adults is "worse" than something done without consent? Because AFAIK Hogan and Heather Clem were consenting adults in what they did but they did not consent to being filmed or to having said film distributed by Gawker. Yes for me much worse, this is a subjective judgement I have been very lucky in life, I have always had very good guy friends, I mean we share everything about ourselves and we completely trust each other and can rely on each other. Some of friends I have been friends with for 15-20 years Most of my friends are married or have serious girlfriends and I am also always very good friends with the ladies ..but its a real respect and friendship that is outside my male friends. I was raised in a matriarch society and I really appreciate my friendships with women, in fact I often enjoy doing things with women that most men would find boring, in other words " women things " But for a man to be true friends with a women he has to learn to not act on any physical attraction if it surfaces , its fine to be attracted to a lady friend but you must control how you respond. So there was and always is immense trust between me and all my guy friends about there lady partners, for example my friend would go away for a month for work and I would come down from JHB and stay with his fiancee for weekends. We would party together, sleep in the same house and even the same bed but there was never anything that made the situation uncomfortable The level of trust was unequivocal and this only made our 3 friendships more durable . So when I hear about someone who is prepared to let his wife sleep with someone like Hogan I lose immense respect for how dysfunctional that relationship really is...despite the fact they probably think " we have a open relationship which makes us stronger as a couple " Get divorced and then sleep with who you want....but seriously a wife and her husband being happy with that is just .....appalling for me So yes what Hogan did was morally worse, spiritually worse and a mockery of what a marriage is

They are bad at politics because they are just not another political party or entity, it's because they are men on a mission. It is an odd situation. Most folks seek to use political power to means to achieve an end. But for the libertarians the end is the containment of the means. GD are you considering joining BLM? You should try it for 3 months, I am sure at the end you will feel you have gained some new insight I did something similar in SA, helped me become a better person. I wont bore you with the detail

Banging a friend's very willing wife behind closed doors with said friend's permission and encouragement is arguably reprehensible on a high moral standard road, but that is a road you do not understand or travel Mr. SJW. Ever. Please don't pretend to in order to try and cast what is grossly abhorrent by even a low moral standard is a better light. The relative wrongs here are equivalent to spitting on someone who actually was spitting at you first, vs aggravated assault with a weapon and robbery. And it's the former, not the latter that is actually repentant. Hogan does not defend his actions, he has sincerely apologized for them, repeatedly (not that this should have *ever* been anyone's business to even discuss let alone have apology given to, other than those who are close to Hogan, Bubba, and the wife). Whereas Denton continues to try to justify his pure slime and is entirely unrepentant. And this is coming from someone who barely knows what 'GG' is about, as I found the entire thing shallow, trivial, corrupt, and largely irrelevant to my life as well as the world at large, as are just about all SJW concerns and ventures. Actually I do understand what he did and I find it reprehensible and I am not someone who is parochial. I have normal dating circles but I also go to strip clubs and have paid for sex. Gawker is just tapping into what I consider are the unhealthy interests of people....Gawker exists because someone likes that type of garbage. But it only exists because of demand Hogan and his even more immoral friends, the wife and husband., did something for themselves....not for someone else,its worse what Hogan did Please dont offended but you only think that about SJW because you dont understand what real SJ is.,...I actually blame SJW on the Internet for this, they ended up just irritating people online and became a source of vexation for most people in the gaming industry Always judging and always having to get involved online ....I'm not sure why you guys didnt just ignore them ?

Well we will all have our views on what is more relevant or morally questionable but yes both are bad. But most of you guys have never liked Gawker from the GG days because of there Kotaku ownership so I was expecting many people to be happy Gawker has lost this case and may even go bankrupt Not a criticism, I would feel the same way if I was on the GG side

No of course I dont believe that, Volo things like gender equality are not about rights for women at the expense of men ...I dont know how many times I have explained this? But I dont like Hogan, you right. In the beginning I didnt even think he should have sued Gawker but several people on this forum like Amentep convinced me otherwise ...so now I feel he can sue Gawker but I still think his behavior was appalling No offense but you are blinded to the obvious injustice, you are fine he can sue Gawker because you dont like Gawker but the fact he had an affair with his friend wife you seem to ignore. So for me its you that have your priorities wrong

Fixed Also, no one is afraid of homosexuals*. L2Volcabulary right. Please reject all the 'phobias' that are not really phobias Mr. VC. It's a step off that hazy road to hell paved with seemingly good intentions into a more honest and clear world. No I promise you I'm not being manipulated and what I believe many people also believe But homophobia is real, in fact its probably the only form of bigotry outside the ME that is still openly practiced and in some cases in Africa its legalized But gay rights are protected in Western countries ...thats good enough for me

Not even close to being new. And it will never go away because there are more than a few politicians and pundits who depend on it. You misspelled "a lot of people feel the issue is relevant to and resonates with the reality of their daily lives" Unfortunately I believe too many of them only think that because they are told it is, not because their experiences show them it is. I don't know, if people were easy to influence, wouldn't you expect to see more libertarians around? (Not a dig against libertarians. More like... one would expect people to naturally gravitate towards what works best for them. You assume that being a libertarian is what results in the best quality of life for most people, therefore convincing people that being a libertarian is good for them should be easier than convincing them of being something else. Thus, if people were easy to convince, you'd expect them to convert to libertarianism in greater numbers and libertarians to retain more adherents than other philosophies.) Actually I totally get why libertarians are a rarity. Although I think it should be otherwise it isn't. A discussion for another time I guess. As far as identity politics goes it plays into one of humanity's baser instinct of "us vs. them". That's why it is so pervasive and people fall so easily into it. Besides, if I could wave a magic wand and make all racism and discrimination disappear the politicians and "leaders" who rely on it (both black, white, & Hispanic) would never acknowledge it was gone. They NEED it to exist and will foment it where it does not occur naturally. It is the source of their power and influence. Most of the folks who participate in the BLM movement have never been the recipient of police brutality or have ever been singled out by the police or anyone else in any way. As terrible and dramatic as these events are it becomes forgotten they are also exceedingly rare and severely punished when the do happen. That means for the most part the whole BLM movement becomes a solution in search of a problem. There is nothing wrong with a movement like BLM, after the series of police killings of certain African Americans you can perfectly understand its purpose For me black lives like all lives matter but if a person joins and espouses the mantra of what BLM stands for you can't now say in a serious debate where you want to discuss social issues " what is the significance of white lives " .....its goes against what you stand for which is the significance of black lives I would not engage with someone like that ...whats the point if thats what they really think? The US is a melting pot of different races and cultures...thats one of the things that makes it great so its doesnt make sense to now attack the core foundation of the USA

No Volo, I care about a balance in everything and I have no real issues with the likes of Gawker...but they have been pushing things for a while ....like I said earlier about those photos of the actresses about there sex lives..and no they not the same as Hogan So I align myself with the greater good that makes society better and more equitable. And I am committed to addressing historical injustices....like sexism and homophobia

Thats good to know, its great when we can use modern medicine to improve our lives....what would you have done 100 years ago ?

It isn't, Bruce derailed the thread and people bit. Actually it is relevant because its about the social reality that exists in parts of the USA and currently much of the politics is framed around social issues

Are you saying its normal in the US for people in a debate to have a view like that? I find that hard to believe that would be accepted ?

It makes sense as an elaborate piece of performance art intended to underline the fact that nobody should have to justify why their lives matter specifically (ie. why "All Lives Matter" as a reaction to "Black Lives Matter" is absolutely wrong-headed and tone-deaf). Is it an elaborate piece of performance art intended to yadda yadda? I'm not convinced. But it would make sense. Okay, good point It may be some kind of performance art ...but would the white people be part of it ? You may be right ...its better than them thinking that kind of invective is appropriate But I think it is real?

Barti stop being naughty.,...you not too old for a good spanking Barti I didn't realize you changed your signature...yes of course if no one speaks to me I would leave But thats not an issue, I have people that always are prepared for a chat and I appreciate it. Remember I have been trying to change and be less condescending....you must have noticed? I think I'm vastly improved from the old BruceVC ?

Oerwinde I meant to ask you how you feeling with the meds, are they beneficial ? How is your son and your general level of frustration ?

No it is a valid point, of course people will say you are now promoting double standards but I get what you mean However my issue is you can say you don't like white people, you can resent white people, in fact you can have any opinion of white people you want but to suggest a whole race has no life value is egregious As I said you have to at least respect things have a right to exist? Its not that I was offended it just sets a terrible precedent for the debate...you cant continue from that,, well I would refuse to

Well, i do not trust the Turks, so why should this info bear any merit. But there it is anyway. Yes I heard this on CNN, it shouldn't be seen as too seriously because I'll be honest there are smalls cells of people living within the EU that want to attack it This is irrefutable, its just a reality of living in the EU. It can be addressed and security will be improved so I wouldnt worry too much You should at least try to like Turkey more, they will be taking in refugees that were headed to the EU...and its a win for the West because have you noticed its okay for any non-Western country to abuse human rights like how the refugees are being housed in Turkey. But thats not a problem we should worry about...its a Turkey decision

Yes, it has caused and will cause problems in Finland and governments (these aren't new problems and have continued through several governments) have failed to solve them. And that failure cause quarrels in general population, which of course can lead that these problems expand and become even worse. Okay but are you talking about the 20k Syrian refugees that have just arrived in Finland? Isn't it too early to say the Finnish government has failed ? Dont get me wrong I can understand if this is the issue...its normal but I just want to be sure we are talking about the same thing? You think that those 40k refugees are only refugees/immigrants that there are in Finland? Those are just ones that cause additional stress to existing policies/systems that have problems, where get to the point that it isn't necessary most solid policy to add stress to policies/systems that don't work and hope that they work. Okay I didnt realize Finland had such a problem with refugees.....I have to be honest because of the harsh weather I wouldn't think Finland would be so popular...also your language, no one can understand it It has not been popular. Between 1970-2012 Finland gave asylum to 48k refugees and even that amount causes problems with existing policies and systems. And now government tries to use those same systems and policies for those that 40k have come in past year. Can you see why there maybe some more problems in future? Absolutely, of course I can see the issue and frustration Its not going to destroy your country but this whole refugee debacle is complicated and annoying Well if thats true then its just wrong because economic refugees aren't the same as refugees driven away from years of conflict and brutal war like the Syrians

They almost certainly leaked the second (well, extended bits of the first featuring Hogan dropping N bombs more than Macho Man dropped elbows) tape against a court order as well. That was probably why they ignored the order to take the original one down, because they thought Hogan would pull out of legal action under threat of the extended version being released. I have to admit to finding it basically impossible to feel any sympathy for any Gawker employee- their employers are just so over the top villainous and so transparently over the top villainous that I can't imagine working there and not being aware of it. They couldn't/ can't even tone it down during legal action when it's not merely sensible to do so but pretty much essential to do so. Dude....seriously its a gossip business isnt it ? This is what they thrive on and there customers expect this...but I am not very happy with them either after I realized they leaked those personal pictures of some of those actresses

Yes I understand your concern, I may not share your view about them being all being dangerous but seriously ....WTF are people from those countries doing immigrating to Finland? Its more the principle for me because I understand the shared burden of the EU but I still think its unfair to expect countries like Finland to just accept these refugees and have no concerns It should be optional but as I keep saying the ME countries must take more refugees before Europe has to

Yes, it has caused and will cause problems in Finland and governments (these aren't new problems and have continued through several governments) have failed to solve them. And that failure cause quarrels in general population, which of course can lead that these problems expand and become even worse. Okay but are you talking about the 20k Syrian refugees that have just arrived in Finland? Isn't it too early to say the Finnish government has failed ? Dont get me wrong I can understand if this is the issue...its normal but I just want to be sure we are talking about the same thing? You think that those 40k refugees are only refugees/immigrants that there are in Finland? Those are just ones that cause additional stress to existing policies/systems that have problems, where get to the point that it isn't necessary most solid policy to add stress to policies/systems that don't work and hope that they work. Okay I didnt realize Finland had such a problem with refugees.....I have to be honest because of the harsh weather I wouldn't think Finland would be so popular...also your language, no one can understand it

Yes, it has caused and will cause problems in Finland and governments (these aren't new problems and have continued through several governments) have failed to solve them. And that failure cause quarrels in general population, which of course can lead that these problems expand and become even worse. Okay but are you talking about the 20k Syrian refugees that have just arrived in Finland? Isn't it too early to say the Finnish government has failed ? Dont get me wrong I can understand if this is the issue...its normal but I just want to be sure we are talking about the same thing?

Vintage Mesh: "The problem with speech inciting genocide and racial hatred is that we don't have enough of it in the mainstream media! The solution is simple: we should give Nazis a voice! They've been oppressed for too long, I say!" Free speech, you use it, you defend it, end of story. You should not pick winners, like they seem to do at Harvard. ...and you didn't even watch video. Not once does he preach for genocide. //edit2, bah i should've just posted this video instead and left it at that: Meshugger its rude to expect people to watch a 1 hour video

Vintage Mesh: "The problem with speech inciting genocide and racial hatred is that we don't have enough of it in the mainstream media! The solution is simple: we should give Nazis a voice! They've been oppressed for too long, I say!" You funny alum, I dont think you passive aggressive all the time ..I just think you sometimes cant keep quiet when you are faced with certain views and sentiments in posts But you not unreasonable, we have had debates and they seemed normal to me ?