BruceVC

I hate it when you think so negatively about yourself, you mustn't ever let other people tell you what you thinking when they make a generalization about something you cannot generalize about. You cant accurately make a convincing argument when you say things like " one race is more racist than another race "......ironically that is an unintentionally racist statement, easy to accidentally perpetuate the racism you are concerned about ...and I know how these things concern you But in the interest of making a good example, lets take your own reality which you obviously will agree with. If I remember correctly you live in the Netherlands but you from Japan or another Asian country. Either way its not an unusual country to live in, I dont consider Japan or the Netherlands places that are notorious for being " structural racist " examples ...so already you concern is mitigated....unless you do think you racist but that would your view and not about your race

Thanks for taking the time to make this post, as usual I find you make important points using sensitivity, reasonableness and valid criticism of both sides which always helps. Most people on this forum wouldn't take so much time to make an important observation of the state of the USA but its not because they dont care ...its just they have shared there views in others ways so dont think because no one responds its pointless making detailed posts or some people have a negative view of Trump due to real comments and to be fair its not going to change For me I always try to read detailed posts on any forum if the issue is real or there is different views on the topic which often happens in politics because what I learnt specifically from this forum and members views was the importance of lived experience and or anecdotal stories that helped me understand certain sentiments that I had never come across from family or work colleagues who live in the USA but share my views on the importance of the free market and how it works globally. Now we may be technically correct but you cannot ignore perceptions that majority or many citizens feel and once I understood what some people were meaning it has sometimes changed my view in a good way and that is something I always appreciate because a subject like Trumps legacy and or successes does matter for several reasons so nuance and context are part of this view. So your post raises this type of introspection Why is this important to any non-American you may ask, its sometimes gets raised by our American members in a polite way that it seems unusual so many people would be so concerned or have a certain opinion on the USA but they dont live in the USA...yet this would differ from person to person who is not American but for me and others the sustainability and influence of the USA is of critical importance to what I believe will lead to a better world for all,the USA is defined by both ideologically and its mostly positive objectives it has made in the world So in other words a world where the USA collapses or is not able to intervene globally would create a much darker and uncertain future for the whole world on numerous levels....there is no viable alternative to the world as the USA provides a real role as "world leader " despite some of Trumps bizarre foreign policy decisions he has not broken the real important connections I am going to make the next part of my point in another post as its fairly detailed and I would to respond to some of your points, I only realized this after the Trump victory where I was absolutely stunned and shocked that he somehow won despite real " data " to the contrary but the reality is those of us who had valid concerns to Trumps general comments and lack of normal political decorum did not understand the real reasons Trump connected with many Americans who have both real and irrational concerns around where the country was going. I can honestly say we were manipulated by his abrasive words only and not what he also stood for which was real and pertinent to many people And Trump created this confusion because he acted in a certain way that was just unheard of in any Democracy, it worked for him and vindicated the strategy some of his clever advisors suggested as he won the election but it also added to the normal political dichotomy that exists in all countries and people become more partisan and read certain things into the Trump victory that was more about perceptions of what it really meant to the future of the USA ....for example you could see this on both the left and right. I will cover this more in my more detailed post but Trumps victory was immediately seen as irrefutable proof of the so called " end " of liberal Democracies by the likes of Nigel Farage who associated this with the same reasons as the BREXIT vote and that the EU was about to collapse due to rise of more anti-EU poltical parties ...yet the reasons people in these countries voted for both outcomes are very different and dont mean the idea of successful and economically strong Western Democracies suddenly become false In the example of the EU despite populist parties attempting to change the acceptable views of governing parties they mostly lost in local EU country elections. Also the real reasons for the creation of most of these populist parties was based on valid concerns by citizens who had real issues around the immigration policy of the EU and how it tried to force all countries to accept refugees from mostly Muslim countries who had failed governments ....there is nothing wrong with diversity but not at the expense of how citizens feel undermines there ability to meaningfully participate in what defines being a citizen and it created a perception that suddenly you had to just accept tens of thousands of refugees from countries that have real issues but not because of the EU. And then there was unreasonable concerns but not uncommon that the immigration idea would lead to the " Islamification " of Europe is never going to happen because fundamentally the majority of refugees were leaving Muslim countries because of the absolute failure of economic transformation and because of internal wars ...these people are not going to expect Sharia law in normal Democracies because there countries have failed them so why expect other countries that dont believe that to become like them? Last point before my larger post is I can absolutely understand why many Americans voted for Trump, its not if I personally agree but rather based on other realities I will discuss later. But several years later Trump has delivered on certain things like making the USA economy stronger and restoring a sense of global respect around how some countries feel about America but he also will fall short on what he use to say as a fact is now not true ....his initial rejection of the virus impact and how it can spread was shared by many world leaders primarily as the world has never dealt with this type of pandemic that needed the global economy to shut down...so it was almost impossible to ever justify why you would ever need to do this as it has created real and additional economic problems for all countries and that cannot be ignored. But Trump did initially reject concerns about how the virus could harm the USA and unfortunately that is on him as he publicly expressed what many of us assumed would happen....the Chinese will deal with this virus like all other examples of viruses that did originate from there animal markets But intrinsically Trump has always relied and believed that his general views will be vindicated by the actual policy success and I have to agree he did make the USA even economically stronger which was how he and his informed advisors could justify all the other controversial comments and at times blatant statements that are untrue, so comments like " his assessment of the number of supporters who attended his first gathering was the most people who have ever attended any gathering in the USA " This may seem trivial but it created a constant negative view and was repeated by Trump around his view of the facts or rather the absurd usage of " alternative facts " which is anathema to a normal debate based on the actual truth. This added to the general anti-Trump sentiment yet his supporters didnt concern themselves with his cavalier way of stating the reality because for many of them they are more understandably concerned with the outcomes and not the actual theater or how Trump still frames things. Also which didnt help is how many Americans dismiss certain comments as example of media bias and or propaganda. This is a more uniquely USA reality where many people just ignore any commentary that doesn't support there view and this leads to real perceptions that exist within the USA that are not always correct and when it is proven something is wrong, but not always wrong, this seems to then undermine what people believe is the truth or rather is what people used to believe is a valid political position My suggestion to how to address this unnecessary negative view of what is real is use common sense on all issues raised by the left or right because both sides can be right and wrong in different examples. Trump really believes in the importance of legacy but the virus has come along and unfortunately wiped out his greatest success story, the strength of the economy. He deserved to win the election in 2020 because this was a salient and positive story but now you are probably right and that will effect peoples views because his grandstanding at times becomes almost impossible to ignore when the economy has been so adversely impacted. And the real risk with how Trump achieved political success is you assume the real success will be what people remember....and normally that could easily be believed by any Trump supporter as a reason to vote for him again but now it becomes much more difficult to be convinced by many citizens If I was a Trump supporter I would still vote for him because the virus impact is not his fault ...you can still have faith in him if you think about the importance of getting the economy stronger does mater which I assume it does ?

In SA at least 30-35 % of adult men I know have licensed and legal firearms I dont keep one but in SA a gun can literally save your life due to our high crime and murder rate

I tend to agree, Comrade is at times studiously " controversial " but its all Cold War ideology so its a little outdated. Debates like " Capitalism is the scourge of modern societies " and how "Mother Russia and Red China " offers a better way of sustainable, happy living than " Western " countries Anyway he doesnt deny he likes to engage in this type of debate in the interest of robust debate so its not done surreptitiously IMO

Nope sorry but now you really making spurious corollaries and economic\social assumptions, its hard to believe you being serious ? Capitalism is just an economic system, its not " anti" anything and its not personal and or emotional...its absolutely cannot be racist because that suggests it has the cognitive ability to be " biased and or prejudiced towards someone of a different skin " ( that is the global definition of racism ) Of course you still need labor laws, regulations and Constitutional mandates to ensure Capitalism isnt abused but that is the responsibility and or success\failure of the government that is elected ....you cannot blame the economic system for perceptions of inequality and or " structural racism "

Tonight Im cooking myself delicious mutton sausages and buttery mash potatoes

Geez it must be nice coming from white, male privilege .........oh wait

This type of violence is unacceptable and should be condemned It doesnt matter what the race is of the victim and of course any human being is capable of any form of bigotry....this is an irrefutable scientific and physiological fact based on how all our brains work and how we think. This means of course black people can be racist, the question should not be that but rather " are you personally a racist " ....and if you are you can change your ways and dont be automatically prejudice towards people who have a different skin color

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/15/supreme-court-rules-workers-cant-be-fired-for-being-gay-or-transgender.html Here is some good news, the USA SC ruled you cannot fire someone for being gay...brilliant outcome and a victory for human rights

Really difficult to say, Im not sure

It was one of my CPT brothers wives 30th birthday on Friday so my sister planned a surprise lockdown " dine-in " experience with the excellent restaurant below, it involved 6 courses which were absolutely delicious. The best part was seeing some of my family again in person, first time in over 70 days https://www.lacolombe.co.za/dine-in-experience

Nice summary, puts somethings in the correct perspective

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-06-12/protective-shield-erected-around-cenotaph-and-winston-churchill-statue-ahead-of-protests-in-london/ It really is completely unacceptable that groups within the BLM protests vandalize important statues like the Cenotaph in London, these groups need to arrested and charged as quickly as possible

Why what great changes has Antifa been responsible for that aren't based on the obvious addressing of the unlawful profiling of African Americans, Antifa is not responsible for raising attention to this Antifa is in many examples just the opposite of right wing violence, they have no legitimate place in any Democracy and Im almost surprised you think they have been effective in using violence constructively

Guys lets not be studiously dismissive of what GD is saying and it is a valid point which I would have assumed most of us were aware of You generally cant take statements from any movement as complex as BLM as the absolute truth or rather the only acceptable opinion to have on a topic. Its never as simple as that in life For example there has been violence from some protesters and innocent people have been killed and yes they include members of the US police which are just doing there job. This doesnt mean we judge the whole BLM movement but you will never achieve the true buy in from society if your debate is based on comments like " BLM is non-violent and anyone who doesnt support them unequivocally is a racist and part of the problem " ...I am not suggesting you guys are saying this but lets be honest about violence where we see it

There deaths absolutely do matter for many reasons. Im glad you raised this but to be honest its not really new information or outcomes but rather its another example of the nuance and complexity with these types of protests and what are they really represent for different people on both sides which is generally the same anywhere in the world where people protest in mostly 1st world countries around numerous issues like Globalization, Climate Change , global financial system, global inequality , anti- Trump protests (some people outside of the USA spend loads of time criticizing and debating events in the USA but it is not well informed and has degrees of Bias and then unhelpful generalizations ....anyway Trump is partly responsible for this at times ) I follow different movements and global developments because they matter to me or are linked to my country, or I have family or good friends involved. Sometimes I follow events in countries because of the importance contribution these countries make to the global economy. My view on these topics is not the same as my views on SJ developments throughout the world where debates and discussions are ongoing around " how to make people more tolerant of other religions " (this is just am example ) My views around SJ has changed over the years but in a good way as I realized I was not seeing something obvious or rather I was looking at certain things in my view of the world and what works but I was not doing proper research into certain Internet SJ developments. I did learn where I was wrong and I always update my views and try to acknowledge my misunderstandings at the time. I learnt several incredibly important realities on this forum from having debates with members, for example GD when you pointed out to me the difference between commentary and reporting in the news media. I now see it when it happens and it causes me less vexation when people in the media do it.....excellent, small but important thing to understand if you follow different news channels The latest riots and protests that started in the USA due to the unlawful killing of George Floyd falls under my SJ views of the world, this just means we will all interpret them in different ways and have different views on some things but we should have common obvious agreement on a few fundamentals like the fact he was mishandled and an illegal form of restraint lead to his death....the cop involved must face several charges and we will see how complicate the other 3 are But this incident has created global outrage and many things have been said by different people. I agree with some protests but I will never accept any looting, burning down of shops and the killing of anyone including the US security forces like the police. But most of the people protesting are well meaning and arent part of the negative parts of the violence. Within the BLM movement there exists an extremist element and or condescending way people make certain points but since these people are not really people of influence so there is no point getting upset even if the media may repeat certain things So for me this is my current view on things and I always welcome peoples comments ....lets debate these things but please explain your view in as much detail as possible so I can understand the point But in summary here is my current view on things I have never believed the police in the US are all bad, I understand the views members on this forum have shared and I respect those views but I dont agree that you should generalize about an entire group that operates in every state and plays an absolutely vital role to the rule of law and order. So with the killing of George the people that dismissed the entire US police now are saying things like " all the police are responsible " ....but you can see from my side I didnt ever think all the police were bad and this incident just means we have to address criminal and or bigotry within the police in certain departments BLM is an American movement and this has now been replicated as the same issues throughout the world, even in countries have totally different social issues around racism. So its important to distinguish between US BLM objectives and other global issues that arent the same but may seem similar I have noticed how many white people have globally joined BLM protests in different countries. This should be seen as a positive step because in all Democracies any citizen is legally entitled to protest and express solidarity with a movement or ideology. You would hope that all people protesting are doing it with an understanding of what is the real objective and "what are you really asking for ". But its a personal choice and there should be no pressure, for example I have never taken part in any protest in my life with the exception of Gay Pride. For me some protests I am fundamentally opposed to but the main reason is I will support certain protests in principle because there broader goals are relevant and constructive but I dont believe you will achieve effective change through most protests. You normally need legislation and or new polices implemented and I would rather focus on this And then I am uncertain what the real changes people are demanding and or expecting? It reminds me a little of the gun control debate in the USA where after certain tragic mass shootings many people always want gun control enforced and basically use a logical, emotional and understandable approach which involves banning certain guns, enforcing more stricter gun ownership laws and improving mental health facilities. But it never gets through US congress for several reasons but most are not unreasonable. People outside the USA, like I use to , dont understand why most Americans dont agree to these changes but we are misunderstanding how many gun owners can absolutely sympathize with any victims and real frustration but the solution cannot be now " all gun owners must be held accountable for the small minority of extremists, ideologues and mentally disabled people who abuse gun control. You must also recognize that many Americans honestly feel gun control is a surreptitious attempt to undermine or control certain Constitutional rights and define what matters to being an American citizen and we must respect this as there are examples of this even if unintentional. For example suggesting all gun owners are these uneducated, rednecks who dont understand the basic problem is unhelpful and condescending So back to what BLM are asking for, I hear things like " we want an end to systemic racism " and " the killings of African Americans by the police cannot continue " , most of the comments are easy to understand but how do these things translate to practical changes that arent already in place? Finally I have to add there are certain groups or people that have hijacked the US BLM movement for there own agendas and ideological goals and quite simply this is not accurate or relevant In SA its been a mixed bag of spurious connections and people blaming all current social problems on things like " systemic racism in our economy and historical realities". Some people in our government have even formed an optional " US Black Friday South African support movement " because apparently US issues around police profiling and certain racist US developments are very relevant to us as " racism in the USA is the biggest problem in the world around why many black people are disadvantaged and live in poverty " But just in SA there are many examples of black people being killed unnecessarily outside of anything to do with racism and yet our government has never really publicly called this out So basically the killing of George must be condemned but we also shouldnt now create unrealistic societal objectives or blame things on this that have nothing to do with it

Elerond !!! Why you being an elitist about your job title....dont you know people outside of IT dont really know or care about our various job descriptions as we all seen as " computer PC people " But on a serious note, I appreciate your point and I can understand your own view on this but in most IT companies your job title reflects your experience and job responsibility and of course your salary. I studied finance but ended up working in software primarily in the financial sector. Basically I am a software consultant but there are different titles in IT that do matter, so you will have ( for example ) software consultant senior software consultant product specialist I imagine your company is the same, a coder is the beginner in programming but then as you advance you will get to senior software architect. I cannot believe your job responsibilities are the same ? But I also understand there is nothing wrong with referring to yourself as a coder because you still are one

So this is not about defending anyone and yes the majority of actual people who do this job dont fundamentally care because the work conditions and salary is much more important than what you and I want to call them But my real point is its not about them but what you and I personally decide to refer to them as, we are defined by our words in life in many areas so I always try to use the better framing of how we refer to things, domestic worker sounds much better than maid Ask yourself this, if you were doing housework as a permanent job how would you like people to describe your job title ?

I hear you and there is a cogent argument that supports your broader point For example in SA people , including domestic workers, often refer to themselves as " maids or servants " but I dont because domestic worker is just a better term to describe an important job So its a personal choice but there should be no real judgement if someone says maid or you shouldn't see it is a pejorative term

Certain topics are related to Corona and its outcomes but not specifically about the virus so I post them here after some consideration, so for me your post is about my initial virus related question around my domestic worker so its relevant Also I can only speak on behalf of myself but I have had so many debates on various Internet SJ and political forums through the years around well meaning but meaningless topics like " gender roles and how we should refer to people " that Im almost exhausted with anything new to add that people haven't heard before Nowadays I have these debates in RL when I occasionally have them

Funny you mention this but it has some truth to it, in SA I have never ever come across a male domestic worker and I wouldnt hire one on principle ...men do other jobs in SA But we also try not to use the word " maid ", we always say " domestic worker ". It sounds like one of those ridiculous "politically correct " labels but there is something demeaning about the word maid compared to domestic worker because the latter is a formal type of employment in SA where the person is suppose to get a contract and have work conditions

Sorry to hear about Bela. I remember when you took her in and how she immediately fitted into her new home You gave her an additional year of love and happiness and as far as old dogs are concerned it doesnt get much better than that ...and she returned those emotions which is even better

Volo I do support effective governments, not so much powerful but effective Sometimes citizens need to do what they told for the greater good of society, if we dont follow the rules and laws then we risk descending into chaos ....thats what makes us different to animals and beasts. We dont want to live in a world of anarchy and lawlessness, Im sure you will agree

Sounds great and an important social event.... the majority of human beings are gregarious creatures and we need social interaction with other people . I know I do Happy Birthday by the way

One of the real changes I have had to adopt to is I now have to do all my own housework.....its been a big learning curve as I use to have a weekly domestic worker How is everyone doing there housework...I imagine being married has its advantages here