Tomucci

Trickster / black jacket swashbuckler Whatever race you like, athletics / intimidates good but all the same whatever skills you like, max res/per/int. Gladiator sword / tuotilos palm Fire in the hole / hand mortar Other weapons slots can be used to dps or debuff (two handed for dps, or pike / morningstar / club / flail for debuff) Between mirrored image, vigorous defence, outward spikes and riposte you'll be passively dealing damage while tanking with really high deflection Then you can switch to the aoe shotguns to deal arterial strike and gouging strike in an aoe to a group of enemies, particularly if they're surrounding you Speaking of enemies surrounding you, once they are you can cast ryngrims repulsive visage to cc them and also provoke disengagement attacks when they try to run The reason why I pick black jacket is to have the utility to switch between any weapon set with 0 recovery time, so in between my riposte tanking when I'm about to actively attack I switch up to something else, attack, then switch back to sword and shield for tank mode, you also have a couple of options with fighter stances This build kinda has as much or as little micro as you want, but if you want even less you can go with unbroken or devoted and not worry about switching weapon sets This is in my top 3 for fun builds I reckon, but its probably the one with the least amount of micro

Awesome thanks guys

Anyone have experience with this build? I've seen people post about sage builds but rarely with these subclasses. Stats seem pretty straight forward, high res/per/con and low might/dex/int. Playing as a wood elf because I don't want to play as an orlan or nature godlike, athletics/intimidate skills. Any tips for this? Spell combos? Equipment? Thanks in advance.

Sage is generally considered very good for that combo you want because of citzals spiritual lance, because it hits as an aoe it grants more chances for proccing crits, and also allows you to do some melee monk abilities as aoes I think (I'm one level off being able to try this for myself). Currently running a blood mage / forbidden fist sage and so far lots of fun, very versatile and strong. Otherwise ravager and shadowdancer make for great monk multiclasses, forbidden fist / trickster is one of the most fun builds I've played. I dropped my ravager because I built it incorrectly and have been thinking about trying it again, but it'd be solid with vanilla monk or nalpazca, just watch out for iron wheel overlapping with frenzy bonuses.

Awesome thanks for the response

Bit late to the party but could you please elaborate on why forbidden fist / blood mage is good? I'd really like to play it because I hate not choosing a sub class but vanilla monk looks a lot better to me, what am I missing?

These were the basic ideas I had in mind. I think I always overlook this option because I only play multiclasses, at least for my main, they just seem more flavorful thematically. I think I also get stuck in the mindset of wanting synergies to be contained within individual characters. Both obviously limit me in a tactical sense. My last shot at a party synergy character was my black jacket swashbuckler that used weapon modals to debuff enemy defenses but didn't end up liking it. But yep what you're saying definitely makes sense.

I've seen this, looks really strong but I'm wondering whether it's because it's a specific build, like with the way it extends the lifegiver cat shift with wall of draining to spam heaps of high level rejuvenation spells while you cast with blood mage. Is the multi considered to be strong in a general sense the way some others are when they're not tied to very specific builds?

Lifegiver / blood mage looks pretty strong on paper but I feel like no one really talks about it when considering multi class options for blood mage, or just the wizard / druid MC in general. Is it considered weak, objectively or relative to other options?

Multiclassing with forbidden fist could be cool for dot dmg because of the enfeeblement on their forbidden fist ability which extends negative effects by 50% Can be paired with rogues arterial strike or toxic strike, or on ciphers soul ignition and disintegrate for instance, both make for strong front line dps options too, trickster starts stronger because of mirrored image (and shadowdancer is a very fun class to play) but when transcendent gets borrowed instinct they become very strong on the front line too

Makes sense Ok so you recommend psion/helwalker over beguiler/helwalker for pure transcendent caster? I'll give it a go but I always kinda thought psion was more for multiclasses with other casters like wizards and needed that extra buffer time in between cipher spells to build focus My build is also high dex so these spells will be cast fairly quickly/frequently

My idea was to play beguiler and have it supported by all the extra stats from the helwalker, as a control caster it seems fairly strong atm, not generating quite enough focus to be self sustaining without weapons yet but I think that's an early game accuracy issue Blood mage/psion and troubador/psion are other alternatives I'm considering, I suppose it's just a matter of what I end up liking more between stronger spells (through monk stat boosts, improving their dmg, pen, active and recovery time) and a wider variety of spells

I do enjoy the spiritualist, if I build one again it'll very likely be psion/troubador I've heard psion only works decently with the community patch though and I don't play with that, might need to test it

Ascendant is starting to feel like the stronger pick here I think, I'm early into my run but beguiler isn't quite building focus as quick as I'd hoped, and with how high my int will be ascendant might be the best way to capitalise on it

Sounds interesting, I'll def give it a look when I decide to try the build

Not really interested in SC, I just find it kinda thematically boring when multi is an option. Spiritualist is a lot of fun, my first character when I started the game was a spiritualist, seemed very strong and underrated, dont seem to see many people talking about it. I also love blood mage so I'd consider that multi as well, I want to try the transcendent though and see how good the cipher gets with those crazy stat bonuses supporting them.

Sounds fun, if I decide to multi with a priest I'll prob go psion/priest of wael or skaen

Thing is I'm not planning on doing much besides spamming cipher spells, surely psion doesn't passively gain focus that quickly?

Sounds fun, I've been wanting to try a warrior priest build, was thinking priest of wael and black jacket for the utility, I played black jacket trickster on my last run and it seemed really strong, swapping between shield and duel wield for 0 recovery when I'm attacking or defending was busted lol and both classes gave me great offensive and defensive abilities

Thinking of trying to build a transcendent as a pure caster. Helwalker / beguiler or ascendant The monk half is there for the helwalker might bonus, swift strikes, wheel, thunderous blows and maybe the twin summon (thereby contributing +15 might and +2 penetration, +5 dex and 15% action speed, +10 int or +10 con and +3 armor if needed) The cipher does the most of the active stuff, either layering deception control spells with dmg spells if I play beguiler, or if I player ascendant spam ranged weapon attacks until I ascend and then go ham with whatever spells I want. Was thinking of using tuotilos palm with either the eye of wael or whatever one handed ranged weapon generates the most focus Stats should end up looking like: Might - 10 (25 with buffs) Con - 10 (20 if I need to switch to defense) Dex - 20 (25 with buffs) Per - 20 Int - 20 (30 with buffs) Res - 10 Any thoughts on beguiler vs ascendant? I'm not playing with the community patch if that impacts. Any particular equipment that'd be good? Any other thoughts about the effectiveness of this build or what might help it?

My personal experience with cipher multiclasses is that I havent really enjoyed them, despite really wanting to because I love the class thematically. I think the problem for me is always that in theory I want to play like a magical warrior that buffs themself to become powerful in melee but in practice all the buffing takes too long and detracts from what I'm trying to do in essence. In that sense I might recommend you try playing a ranged mindstalker using your rogue to to augment your cipher and not the other way around, if that appeals to you anyway. Focusing on ranged will make organising stats easier, and focusing on spell casting might feel more intuitive for the cipher. If youre set on melee a trickster/beguiler or trickster/soul blade is good I think. I like beguiler because you can use solid cc abilities to generate focus, and those cc abilities will help regardless of whether you're playing melee or ranged. Trickster gives really good illusion spells that will be particularly useful for a melee mindstalker, and you're only trading a small amount of your sneak attack bonus for them.

My intention isn't really to build a dedicated tank but a jack of all trades. I can see how that combo would be very powerful for a tank though. Thanks for all the info.

My basic concept is a jack of all trades utility character that can tank, disable and dps. Pale elf / white that wends / drifter (might also consider old vallia / dissident or mercenary). Might-8 / con-10 / dex-10 / per-22 / int-20 / res-20 (BB obv on). Weapon sets: club (kapana taga) and flail (sun and moon) / morningstar (willbreaker) / duel blunderbusses (hand mortar and fire in the hole) / havent decided, maybe duel sabers for pure slash dps or sword and shield for tanking, maybe take a 5th weapon set and have both, maybe just leave it at 3 Armor ideas: either DoC breastplate for the action speed bonus and resources, fleshmender for the extra weapon set, or maybe reckless brigandine, between armored grace, nalvi and the bonus to action speed with engagement it'll keep me tanky without slowing me down. Idea is obviously to have any tool available for the job; For tanking I have mirrored image, fighter stances, vigorous defence, then potentially heavy armor that doesnt slow me down and a weapon set dedicated to sword and shield for even more deflection Dps won't be the highest but between rogue and fighter abilities I'll still have bonuses to accuracy, damage, action speed, conversions for more consistency and some free attacks Now the main focus, disabling: Weapon modals (and passives) to lower resistances. Arterial strike and confounding blind (targets fortitude and reflex respectively) in aoes from the blunderbusses. Trickster abilities to target will. High accuracy so these debuffs hit/crit, and high intelligence and tactical barrage to make them last as long as possible All of this coordinated with other party members to give those poor slobs a chance to hit something for a change. Thinking characters like aloth and sarafen will have solid abilities that target particular defences. Questions: Will terrify proc disengagement attacks? Seen mixed info on this Will quick switch stack with black jackets passive to essentially eliminate recovery time between weapon change? Will the aoe size of the blunderbusses scale with int? Are there any glaring issues with what I'm trying to do here?

Did you play this with high con or just micro positioning a lot? Would helwalker be your suggested ravager monk subclass? Sounds interesting, might check it out, but I'm still worried the build will be too squishy taking all that extra dmg I guess so but I think it bugs me not only because of the overlap but also because I'd banked on being able to have high con to mitigate all the self harm, might try rerolling with 15 con. Will the int bonus from the other modal hurt the forbidden fist that much that I shouldn't consider it? Or maybe switching between the two might be viable so I can use the int bonus to extend flurry and frenzy durations then default back to iron wheel? What I've been doing is activating flurry and frenzy, using forbidden fist once then using clarity of agony which has a neutral cost while I have one stack of forbidden fist and confusion then using a combination of forbidden fist and auto attacks to steadily increase wounds until frenzy runs out then rinse/repeat. I've been liking it so far, the hit to crit from frenzy with monk free attacks on crit, variety of bonuses between frenzy and monk buffs, using clarity of agony to clear confusion, the sheer dmg between barb actives/passives and monk fists, debuffs from barb being extended by FF enfeeblement I've had my dex up around 25 so the cast times haven't felt too bad tbh, and I've been liking the forbidden fist enfeeblement for extending the barb effects like staggered ect Didn't think you could actually get decent fist dmg outside of playing a monk, sounds cool but I'd prefer to stick with monk if I'm using fists This might be my problem tbh, FF is my fav monk subclass but it might not really fit here, I've been liking that I can use forbidden fist ability once then use clarity of agony to clear confusion with a neutral cost but building wounds from there is kinda slow Thanks to everyone for responding, and apologies for the format here, its a bit all over the place

So I made a forbidden fist/berserker, was going pretty good until I got to level 10 or so, and realised the con bonus from wheel doesn't stack with the con bonus from frenzy. I had maxed dex, per, res and kept everything else around 10, the stats I maxed are obvious, might was kept low because of the raw self dmg from both classes, int low for forbidden fist, con low because I figured I was getting it to 25 anyway. If iron wheel and frenzy overlap then I have to go with the other one that boosts int, but that's sketchy now because I have relatively low con and I'll be doing a lot more self harm. So my idea is to instead max con, per, res and leave the other stats at 10. Con is raised to compensate for the fact that the increased int will cause more self harm, but I kinda feel like there might be a synergy there with how barbs get bonuses when they're lower health, and the larger health pool will also help me control it. I realise nalpazca is probably the better subclass here but I'm not interested in it. I also think helwalker would have the same problem with stats overlapping, and high might increasing self dmg from frenzy and also increasing my damage taken sounds way too squishy. So the only other subclass I'd really want to consider is shattered pillar but I feel like forbidden fist is better. Any thoughts or suggestions?