Tomucci

My personal experience with cipher multiclasses is that I havent really enjoyed them, despite really wanting to because I love the class thematically. I think the problem for me is always that in theory I want to play like a magical warrior that buffs themself to become powerful in melee but in practice all the buffing takes too long and detracts from what I'm trying to do in essence. In that sense I might recommend you try playing a ranged mindstalker using your rogue to to augment your cipher and not the other way around, if that appeals to you anyway. Focusing on ranged will make organising stats easier, and focusing on spell casting might feel more intuitive for the cipher. If youre set on melee a trickster/beguiler or trickster/soul blade is good I think. I like beguiler because you can use solid cc abilities to generate focus, and those cc abilities will help regardless of whether you're playing melee or ranged. Trickster gives really good illusion spells that will be particularly useful for a melee mindstalker, and you're only trading a small amount of your sneak attack bonus for them.

My intention isn't really to build a dedicated tank but a jack of all trades. I can see how that combo would be very powerful for a tank though. Thanks for all the info.

My basic concept is a jack of all trades utility character that can tank, disable and dps. Pale elf / white that wends / drifter (might also consider old vallia / dissident or mercenary). Might-8 / con-10 / dex-10 / per-22 / int-20 / res-20 (BB obv on). Weapon sets: club (kapana taga) and flail (sun and moon) / morningstar (willbreaker) / duel blunderbusses (hand mortar and fire in the hole) / havent decided, maybe duel sabers for pure slash dps or sword and shield for tanking, maybe take a 5th weapon set and have both, maybe just leave it at 3 Armor ideas: either DoC breastplate for the action speed bonus and resources, fleshmender for the extra weapon set, or maybe reckless brigandine, between armored grace, nalvi and the bonus to action speed with engagement it'll keep me tanky without slowing me down. Idea is obviously to have any tool available for the job; For tanking I have mirrored image, fighter stances, vigorous defence, then potentially heavy armor that doesnt slow me down and a weapon set dedicated to sword and shield for even more deflection Dps won't be the highest but between rogue and fighter abilities I'll still have bonuses to accuracy, damage, action speed, conversions for more consistency and some free attacks Now the main focus, disabling: Weapon modals (and passives) to lower resistances. Arterial strike and confounding blind (targets fortitude and reflex respectively) in aoes from the blunderbusses. Trickster abilities to target will. High accuracy so these debuffs hit/crit, and high intelligence and tactical barrage to make them last as long as possible All of this coordinated with other party members to give those poor slobs a chance to hit something for a change. Thinking characters like aloth and sarafen will have solid abilities that target particular defences. Questions: Will terrify proc disengagement attacks? Seen mixed info on this Will quick switch stack with black jackets passive to essentially eliminate recovery time between weapon change? Will the aoe size of the blunderbusses scale with int? Are there any glaring issues with what I'm trying to do here?

Did you play this with high con or just micro positioning a lot? Would helwalker be your suggested ravager monk subclass? Sounds interesting, might check it out, but I'm still worried the build will be too squishy taking all that extra dmg I guess so but I think it bugs me not only because of the overlap but also because I'd banked on being able to have high con to mitigate all the self harm, might try rerolling with 15 con. Will the int bonus from the other modal hurt the forbidden fist that much that I shouldn't consider it? Or maybe switching between the two might be viable so I can use the int bonus to extend flurry and frenzy durations then default back to iron wheel? What I've been doing is activating flurry and frenzy, using forbidden fist once then using clarity of agony which has a neutral cost while I have one stack of forbidden fist and confusion then using a combination of forbidden fist and auto attacks to steadily increase wounds until frenzy runs out then rinse/repeat. I've been liking it so far, the hit to crit from frenzy with monk free attacks on crit, variety of bonuses between frenzy and monk buffs, using clarity of agony to clear confusion, the sheer dmg between barb actives/passives and monk fists, debuffs from barb being extended by FF enfeeblement I've had my dex up around 25 so the cast times haven't felt too bad tbh, and I've been liking the forbidden fist enfeeblement for extending the barb effects like staggered ect Didn't think you could actually get decent fist dmg outside of playing a monk, sounds cool but I'd prefer to stick with monk if I'm using fists This might be my problem tbh, FF is my fav monk subclass but it might not really fit here, I've been liking that I can use forbidden fist ability once then use clarity of agony to clear confusion with a neutral cost but building wounds from there is kinda slow Thanks to everyone for responding, and apologies for the format here, its a bit all over the place

So I made a forbidden fist/berserker, was going pretty good until I got to level 10 or so, and realised the con bonus from wheel doesn't stack with the con bonus from frenzy. I had maxed dex, per, res and kept everything else around 10, the stats I maxed are obvious, might was kept low because of the raw self dmg from both classes, int low for forbidden fist, con low because I figured I was getting it to 25 anyway. If iron wheel and frenzy overlap then I have to go with the other one that boosts int, but that's sketchy now because I have relatively low con and I'll be doing a lot more self harm. So my idea is to instead max con, per, res and leave the other stats at 10. Con is raised to compensate for the fact that the increased int will cause more self harm, but I kinda feel like there might be a synergy there with how barbs get bonuses when they're lower health, and the larger health pool will also help me control it. I realise nalpazca is probably the better subclass here but I'm not interested in it. I also think helwalker would have the same problem with stats overlapping, and high might increasing self dmg from frenzy and also increasing my damage taken sounds way too squishy. So the only other subclass I'd really want to consider is shattered pillar but I feel like forbidden fist is better. Any thoughts or suggestions?