Not So Clever Hound

IMO Cipher synergizes extremely well with ranged Assassin too. Vanilla Cipher with Biting Whip + Hammering Thoughts + Disintegration = outstanding complement to Assassin damage for 3 measly ability points. If you want to briefly switch it as a hybrid Arcana user for few late game DLC encounters where hit n' run doesn't work, you can also spec farcasting and rapid casting and it's just gravy on top.

Hey no worries! Not a stupid question, I'm just wondering who gave this POV you mentioned about Cipher being bad.... Anyway that's what this forum is for and you will see that generally people are very happy to help .

Well, in Solo some are better than others but some are straight-up not viable no matter how you build them - to me that's a big difference when considering builds vs. party play. And by viable I mean able to deliver against the critical path, not necessarily to do all the optional content or an Ultimate-style run. Indeed Cipher is viable solo in multiple and quite diverse ways.

Cipher is one of very few classes that were successfully used (by @abot above) to beat the Ultimate. It is the only class that can completely trivialize one of the hardest and most annoying fights ever designed (Hauani o Whe megaboss). And at least this last point has been true and known for a while. In a party, every subclass and multi combination of Cipher can be very strong but having an SC Ascendant and a Priest = party god mode with a bit of setup/management. Solo or if you're looking at characters' ability in a self-contained way, you can build amazing synergies around cipher multiclassing both to complement martial melee/ranged and casting playstyles. The only thing if you're playing Cipher as a Caster/Caster is that you need to pay attention to action economy and resource management. This is one of many reasons why Psion Troubadour in particular is highly regarded: it always has resources to do something fun - uses focus, uses phrases, uses focus etc. etc.

That's right I forgot about it since I'm usually doing FS super late. With it I should be able to reach 15+sec Vanishing Strikes, which lets you go nuts with multiple Gambits AND move around if enemies go back to their position. Nice!

Assassin multi can be great with Cipher, Devoted, Bloodmage, Bleak walker. In most cases ranged is more powerful/convenient but melee can be fun. I’ve posted in this forum solo mindstalker and swashbuckler full builds that I can share later or that you can search (on my phone now). SC Assassin is a god if he can get good duration on Vanishing Strike and take advantage of Gambit. An assassin that can actually stay in combat. I’m playing one now with the 2 unique spears and stacking cabalist gambeson, strand of favor (no abuse) and Mari crudia. It’s really fun to have like 12sec of vanishing strike every use and have 4 uses per fight + full gambit refund. However it’s annoying in melee as certain enemies tend to wander around in combat when they can’t see you so you lose time chasing or get “miss: out of range”. So in general the typical Hit n’ Run tactic is more convenient but isn’t for everyone. It’s the easiest/fastest with bloodmage using fire spells and stacking +PL and/or with blightheart or engoliero do espirs. Massive AoE assassination and you can also complement with hard CC and multiple smoke veil to take down an entire battlefield in one go.

I came very close to besting Hauani with Assassin/Devoted a few times using a somewhat similar tactic, with loads of scrolls of Meteor Shower and Gaze of the Adragan. The problem is that every Hauani forms after its first split don't stay in place unless they see you, and start wandering around the second you turn invisible. Trying to land stuff from invisibility on the Gigantic Oozes is quite infuriating for that reason. I think it's doable, but subject to a lot of luck and RNG.

By far the easiest is Assassin/Cipher, with max PER, Acina's Tricorn etc. Gouging Strike, Smoke Veil, retreat to the South. When it's at Near Death, quaff Ascension, Deftness, Perfect Aim. Go invisible, Borrowed Instinct. Go invisible again, Disintegration. Go invisible again, Marux Amanth in the face. Bye bye Hauani.

Well you sound like a very reasonable extremist . My personal POV that I will try to synthesize in a different way here is that I tend to avoid SoF for my own Solo playstyle for the following reason. The key advantage of SoF cheese in making more classes and builds relevant for high-level Solo is undeniable. But then the focus tends to become the maximization of SoF itself, not really the class. So for me personally, it kind-of defeats its own purpose. It sounds fun to suddenly be able to solo a Mage Slayer or whatever with SoF, but then you're not really soloing a Mage Slayer, you're soloing a SoF-extending build first and foremost - the class becomes almost secondary.

Hi @dgray62, you can find it in this thread below. Yep it is the idea indeed. Once you've built enough AR in stealth, you just unstealth to start the fight.

This topic is reoccurring enough that we as a community could try to solve nicely and diplomatically at some point, maybe provide some kind of commonly agreed recos on how to use or not SoF for the best gaming experience? I think there is more common ground than we'd think for a baseline. We have three camps: Camp in favor of repeatedly equipping/unequipping SoF to prolong effects: Pros: Deadfire only gives the tools to beat everything in the game to certain classes. SoF levels the playing field as an Anti-Nerf Bat, enabling more classes to be PotD/Upscaled/Solo/The Ultimate viable, and that is for the better. No big deal, it's a single player game, you can use whatever you want that is in the game. Cons: with SoF, everything boils down to hoarding prolongable effects and extending them by equipping/unequipping SoF. Certain class/ability choices become meaningless. Also, why use any other class than SC Assassin then: gamebreaking invulnerability with one ability. Camp in favor of not using SoF: Pros: Keep class specifics and certain unique, rich combinations relatively superior (or vastly over-powered in certain cases). SoF trick is too much of an abuse vs other commonly accepted cheesy combos. Cons: without SoF, only a handful of classes arbitrarily have some "game-breaking" tools to deal with all high-level content in the highest difficulty levels. If you focus on full completion and/or Solo stuff, you have to have certain classes to be able to win. Even the best player with the most balanced party archetype may lose to Megabosses if they don't have certain "trick" classes. That's frustrating. Everybody else: Pros: I don't know about it, but i sounds super strong and game-breaking. Cons: I don't know about it, but i sounds super strong and game-breaking.

I'm in a good mood right now and I want to post a pun, which I believe befits this thread quite well. How do you call a Bleak Walker with low Deflection? Answer: a Weak Blocker. Sorry but I had to share it at some point. It's been festering in my mind for too long.

Looking good, Boeroer thanks for testing and sharing! I can imagine that those fights get tedious... maybe then switch to an axe with the modal on and focus on one enemy at a time, eventually the stacking DoTs will do the trick? Not Magran's Favor obviously in this case . Or maybe something like Grave Calling with the Paralyze? Or try to trigger Scordeo's Edge Blade Cascade to finish each enemy? In any case, tedium involved.

@Boeroer one thing that I thought about just now in favor of your AR-focused build proposal is @Elric Galad's finding about Stoic Steel below. So not only could you begin the fight with +6AR, but actually much more... and potentially use your leap/cancel trick with bounding boots to go around the battlefield never losing your insane armor... To be tested (maybe by me at some point but not now ). The core issue remains that it takes forever with a Solo Crusader to kill stuff, but you can do it in the relative safety of having 20+ AR. Like some kind of Death Turtle. 2) Stoic Steel can charge up before battle So if you start battle after 18s of immobility, you start with +3AR. I've never been aware of it before today. This makes Stealth interesting for Paladins ^^ Additional tip : some of the "teleporting" abilities such as escape don't cancel Stoic Steel. I haven't test all of them.

I do think it's a fun idea. For a first Solo playthrough I don't know if I'd choose a Druid multiclass as it needs a bit more levels and/or meta to be very strong at least on PotD but I do love it. I also recently wrote this build below about a Druid/Bloodmage that is quite strong if you're interested. EDIT: I've had a lot of fun with Tactician shenanigans and as @Raven Darkholme who is an expert of this subclass among others pointed out it is absolutely OP if managed well. But I would also mention that it takes a bit of practice to master how to trigger/maintain Brilliant. Maybe a bit much on top of learning the ropes in a very first Solo playthrough TBH. Neketaka wasn't built in one day . They can both be fun and powerful but Bloodmage/Helwalker or whatever you chose as Monk subclass is more powerful because you can replicate the crazy cannot-die effect of the Priest with a potion (Potion of the Final Stand) and extend it with WoD for very hard fights, plus Bloodmage/Helwalker gives you some of the best tools to manage every fight in the end game content. It's just a little squishball in the beginning . Basically Bloodmage/whatever is always top-tier in the way the game is implemented in vanilla and with the Community Patch. This might be marginally different with the Balance Polishing Mod and other mods, but I can't speak to that (yet).

Skaen/BM mostly relies upon the combo I described above (infinitely prolonging Cannot Die effect, which makes you invulnerable as long as no enemy can dispel the effect, and allows you to use Blood Sacrifice indefinitely to replenish BM spells). People pair that with a permanent Brilliant effect (with Salvation of time) for even more pawah. Skaen is just a class of choice because its free Priest/Rogue spells are very useful in particular for The Ultimate. Other than that, it plays as a typical Theurge AFIK.

If you're looking for a Melee Priest, both Berath and Wael can be great options. Multiclassing with Fighter or Monk would give you strong synergies and stellar Melee power, I would probably go more with Fighter for survivability in Solo (especially if doing Berath as Wael has more defensive spells built in). But a Monk gives very strong active and passive abilities/bonuses that complement spellcasting very well too. I think from an RP POV, Berath/Fighter can give you a strong Death Knight type of feel. There was a nice thread below about it, and it's been discussed in other threads if you're willing to search the forum. I think the suggestion to use Morning Star as primary weapon + the summoned Berath weapon could work really well. Or stick to 2H swords, there is a nice one that you can forge early and that looks and feels quite Berath-y. You will keep cheese to a relative minimum that way. There are indeed lots of more or less legitimate ways to break the game in Deadfire . One of the strongest cheese you can use as a priest is Barring Death Door paired with things that prolong effects (Wizard's Wall of Draining, Salvation of Time). This particular thing is not an exploit or a bug, just some nice cheese. Final thoughts: For Fighter, you may go no-subclass or maybe Unbroken. Devoted is very good and appealing, but very restrictive for a first playthrough. For Monk I could see Forbidden Fist, Nalpazca, of course Helwalker is super strong but also very squishy (maybe then Helwalker-Wael). with a Priest/Fighter or Priest/Monk you will Solo Veteran very well, if you aren't very familiar with the game mechanics maybe Upscaled will be a bit too punishing for a first playthrough, especially because Deadfire's difficulty is very front-loaded (i.e. the first island). Being a new player who wants to Solo, I would personally start on Normal and increase the difficulty as I go when I feel confident and too strong for Normal. You will solo all the critical path and the vast majority of the optional content, but if you want to have the potential tools to do absolutely every optional fight that the game has to throw at you while Soloing, Priest/Bloodmage would be stronger (one of the strongest power playing combo that people use to beat The Ultimate). Just my 2 cents. Have fun!

Welcome! Multiclass is probably the way to go and if built properly, will obliterate the game Solo. Strongest option being either a Priest of Skaen or Wael MC with a Bloodmage... But: What Priest subclass/god do you roll/RP? Do you have particular preferences on play style (spellcasting/melee/ranged weapons)? I know it's hard to define for a new player but you brought it up so what do you mean by cheese here?

Indeed, I meant abilities with a self-damage component like Berserker Frenzy, Blood Sacrifice, DAoM etc. Not actually attacking oneself which indeed is different . Thanks for clarifying.

Yep a slightly different version: using two Assassin character who were bouncing the lash from one to the other with a very high damage weapon (Dragon's Dowry) - so it increases exponentially at every bounce and quickly reaches insane levels.

And of course, it doesn't heal self-inflicted damage abilities either (DoT, pulsing, or burst self-damage). Merci !

1) How did I miss this thread. Your explanation/testing of Unbending in particular is masterful @Elric Galad and answers a few questions I still had after so many hours in the game. 2) So it means that Practiced Healer and Path of Mercy from Footprints of Ahu Taka will NOT increase the potency of Unbending and NOT Might of course. But things like Glazed Chops, Murkbrew etc will help (any other obvious +Healing Received mods I'm missing?). Of course any +INT modifier and +% Beneficial Effect duration (strand of favor, cabalist gambeson, Mari Crudia) will also increase it. 3) I'm curious if you know whether the healing of Unbending is calculated off of the damage received before or after %DMG received modifiers? So to take a concrete example: Assassin takes 15% more DMG as a passive malus. Does Unbending healing take into account this +15% (which would make this malus a total non issue for a properly built Swashbuckler)?

Thanks, I could potentially have gone for a Forbidden Fist /Steel Garrote type of template in terms of stats. But again, my RES is not ridiculuous either (RES = 20). But at the same time then it would also warrant potentially selecting Hands of Light as an upgrade to Lay On Hands, for the extra RES buff, then fire up Sacred Immolation...

All great points as always, thanks @Boeroer. I think my love of Clear Out and desire to synergize with Sicken from Bleak Walker Eternal Flames obscured the AR synergy you mentioned. I was thinking that the key weakness of a Crusader is to not have enough offense vs. defense, which is where Bleak Walker Eternal Flames + Clear Out + High Defense + Offensive Parry could help. To be fair, I was also trying to solve for the PEN issue on PotD Upscaled by choosing Devoted as Fighter subclass. Anyway on the high RES vs. Sacred Immolation, I feel silly not to have thought about it (although my RES is already actually quite high). But is the enemy damage duration separate from the self damage duration? I.e. can I do more damage to the enemy and less damage to myself with higher RES? It wasn't obvious from the testing I've done. In which case the core issue of Sacred Immolation remains: the damage per tick on self vs. enemy doesn't make sense. EDIT; BTW I did use Monastic Unarmed Training and Tuotilo's in early levels indeed which of course also benefit from your Devotion.