kreese12

Replaying Deus Ex right now (well, to be technical an awesome full conversion mod for it called THe Nameless Mod) and this classic game has NO selling of items in it. At first that may seem odd, just because selling items in stores is such a strong RPG convention. But if you think about it , actually I'm pretty sure the system works better. For starters, the player doesn't have to bother collecting endless useless sidearms , because there is no point to it [when you can't sell them back.] You'll never bother collecting any gun that isn't your best weapon in each category -- this eliminates clutter (which plagued Mass Effect , for example). And on a more semi-realistic note, how many stores actually buy stuff back from people anyways? Not having selling also allows the designers to better balance the potential amount of money available to the players in the game. I don't bring this up because I mean to say it is bad that AP has it, just wanted to bring it up because ya, selling is such a commonplace RPG design convention that is one of those things that no one seems to actually consider if it is a good mechanic or not -- it just gets put in. Regarding the gametrailers comments on the graphics being sub-par, I'm sort of disappointed to read those as well. First off I rather have 1 game with great gameplay, then 10 games that look great that aren't that fun (*cough* Assassin's Creed *ahem*). Second, I imagine that many of those people are just comparing any game to like the 2-3 games with absolute top graphics (and massive budgets), that AP could not reasonably compete against. For me, the graphics look fine.

I'm with 956123 on this one. Couldn't really care less about facial customization. In games that allow for it, I generally use the random feature (if available) to just cycle through a few options until I find someone that looks suitably goofy. Having options to add a big beard and wear stuff like glasses or a cap satisfies my inclinations towards customization.

Instead of that roaring animation, perhaps it would've been cool for a quick (like 2 sec) close-up of Mike's face, where he just gives a grimace or something a bit more low-key. Not that I mind the roaring animation too much.

I think it's now come to the point for me that I'm going to buy the game for sure, so I'm not going to watch anymore trailers as to not spoil any surprises.

I wouldn't take too much offense! I think Kelverin is not writing from any actual experience on the subject, he is just writing his assumptions. I really doubt the truthiness of "those who get into game development and other forms of entertainment jump into the industry as a stepping stone to get to movies." This might be the case from time to times, but I see it as false generalization. If you'd care to cite actual examples, or reasons why you feel this Kelverin, then I'd like to hear'em. Personally I don't think that statement is true at all. I've personally worked in film, and done a touch of game design (though I'm not professing to be an expert at either), and personally if I had the choice, I rather be a game cinematic designer than a film cinematic designer. For many reasons -- perhaps the first being working in film is a rough lifestyle (yeah, even worse than games), and the future of narrative development lies in games, not film. While there is a lot of cross-over, the goals and tools of the game cinematic designer and the film cinematic designer are different; one is not a stepping-stone to the either; they are similar avenues taking slightly different routes to the same destination: the effective delivery of a story.

Explosions and exposed (at least partially) breasts are a recipe for success across the widest variety of life's everyday circumstances.

It's working on me Certainly this is the game I'm most looking forward to in the next couple of months. If it gets delayed I might have to become a real life spy just to get my fix.

Nice

I think Aristes is bang-on dude. This thread sort of reminds me of the point I brought up in the stereotype thread. Someone was saying that Zie (?name?, the German cougar) should not have blond hair and blue eyes because that is a stereotype of Germans (which isn't true, but that is what the person is saying.) But just because a stereotype exists, does that mean characters should never have any traits that are stereotypical? So like, there should never be a blonde, blue-eyed Swedish chick in game, because there are a lot of sexy, blonde blue-eyed Swedes ? Just because Afghanistan terrorists often hang out in caves, does that mean that any depiction of them in games and films should then be houses and bunkers instead?

Ya that is sort of what I was trying to hint at. Protect nothin' 4shure.

The big hoopla-brouhaha over any sexual elements in games is always a bit disconcerting to me. I guess it is a reminder than as far as games have come, a big part of gaming remains centered on juvenile tastes. Or maybe just the gaming media. And I still find it weird about that whole 'sexbox' ME scandal. It is so ****ed up when you have a game like Prototype* come out one week, where you can slay multitudes of innocent people in totally gruesome ways, such as slicing, electrocuting and eating them or whatever, without absolutely no notice in mainstream and gaming media, but then if there is even the side of woman's bum in one game and there is a huge freak out about it. It says a lot about North American society. *not saying there is anything wrong with this game. I like ultra-violence in my games! Just using it as an example... Sexual activity is much more a part of most our everyday lives (I presume), than violence is, so I don't know why the depiction of it is so taboo. Especially in the back-drop of game on the spy thriller, of all things. Perhaps many baby boomers still have the common fallacy planted deep in their minds that only teenagers play video games -- and they should be protected from the horror that is sexual activity! ...just listened to podcast. I thought Matt Rorie handled himself really well. Good podcast.

Just back to the spy issue of real-world versus Hollywood world, give me a spy game based on Bourne any day of the week, over a RPG based on a semi-real spy situation. If you want you want a sort-of real-world spy simulator game that is fun, you'll have to go back to the early '90s (or eBay) and play Floor 13. I played it a couple of years ago... damn hard game, but pretty fun. Still ya, when I first 'spy RPG', I thought James Bond and Clive Cussler thrillers. Give me dual wielding SMGs and eye-patches over satellite cave-watching and Internet eavesdropping any day of the week. As for the box, I think it is a bit too plain (just IMHO.) I would go with the standard spy genre stuff on the cover, like a bomb timer ticking down in one corner, a hot chick with a big gun and not many clothes, someone punching someone in the face, and maybe a zip-line running from corner to corner Sure that all might sound generic and typical -- but that's how I like my spy stuff

Well the game is 10 bucks cheaper. Personally rather it 10 bucks cheaper than have the bonus stuff, which I'm going to guess is going to be overpowered anyways. Ya I know the two things aren't technically related but anyways.

I'm not sure I like "The Espionage RPG" either. I'd prefer losing the "the", or going with "A Espionage RPG." Nah that would be bad as well. I can't really offer anything better, but I dunno, just sort of rubs me the wrong way somehow.

I like the updated character screen (not sure if you guys have seen it, but it is updated for me.) Looks really good. Good colors and clean and an intuitive layout.

Morgoth I honestly like yours better The actual box art isn't bad, but it is pretty plain to me. And the dude on it doesn't even look like M.T very much. Side-note: Being a spy game, the box-art artist should really take advantage of the fact that a sexy chick would fit right in on the cover !

Ya I think so, but I would say gameplay trumps story. I'm sure you've played a game that had a cool story, but the game wasn't much fun. The last one I played like that was... The Path. Had a cool premise, really inventive stimulating writing, a neat story, but the gameplay didn't hold my interest for more than an hour. The damn chick was too slow hehe But right now I'm loving Burnout Paradise. And the story is 'You get a car, and drive like nuts!' which works out fine for the game But I guess the final catch is if the story is so good that it overcomes any gameplay weaknesses, then hey, than ya, that is what counts.

Alright SirP we can consider the M.E comparisons completely over I will not mention that game again. Re:Oner, as much I as I love fiction, stories, game writing and all that, I would also agree that story and atmosphere come second to gameplay. Because you can have a great game without a good story, but you can't have a good game with good gameplay. For RPGs the balance is titled towards story a bit more, but even still. I wouldn't say Oblivion had much beyond the world's most generic fantasy story ,but was still a great RPG. That being said, now-a-days gamers do seem to desire a good plot and setting more and more. For example, Bioshock would have been nothing remarkable if it had the used the same mechanics, but was a WW2 FPS, or a typical-aliens-invade-the-world FPS.

I'm just going to go over this one brief, quick time. In response to SirPetrakus'es question last page, I don't really care that much. Ok, the similarities between the ME and AP character screen, in looks and design: 1: Char. name top left corner, beneath it, class (presuming) 2: Char. picture left 1/3rd of screen (A.P has same char. pose as the M.E inventory screen) 3: Skills right 2/3rds of screen 4: Skills represented by squares; with 'skill milestones' unlocked and irregular intervals. Seems for both AP and ME, each additional skill point adds to a variable related to the skill (i.e Enemy Spot Distance %10) and the 'skill milestones' function to a:) unlock a usable skill, or/and b:) determine whether your skill is at a basic / average / hard level (i.e ME, decryption at 8 point means you can unlock 'average' rated crates; I'm presuming it'll be similar to A.P here because of in that screen shot last page, it says the character's concealment rating is 'Basic') 5: Hehe ya they are both blue. Didn't even really notice that before; thanks for pointing it out. That's about all of them. And it's not that fair to say 'well why don't you compare it to KOTOR then?' because the thing is , Bioware made KOTOR, so it seems natural that Bioware would develop and use a similar system for future games, such as M.E. Although Obsidian used a similar skills system for KOTOR 2 it made sense because it was a sequel to the Bioware game, whereas this there new IP , which has no links to Bioware. And also SirPetrakus, as I said really clearly last post (now I'm not even sure if you read it) I don't "hold it against them" at all. I was just pointing out that I saw an influence. I think it's a good system. The differing point values is a nice touch as well. Okay I'm really going to drop it now. Thread is totally derailed.

That's great That's just how it should be. My hopes for this game have gone up yet another notch.

Doesn't matter much. I'm just sayin' they are very similar, and find it odd that some people would not recognize that. I don't even think it's a bad thing. I like the system. If anything perhaps a little more originality would be good, because I'm just always in favor of originality and trying new stuff instead of contributing to the eventual over-genre-fication and homogenizing of all game design, but ya it's fine and doesn't bother me. The system works.

No I'm not saying it is most similar to Mass Effect's character skill system because Mass Effect used it most recently, I'm saying Alpha Protocol's character skill system is most similar to Mass Effect's because Alpha Protocol's character skill system is most similar to Mass Effects. Not exactly the same, but definitely inspired/influenced. I'd imagine probably whoever even designed it would not have an problem admitting that. Of course all games are going to have some similarities, and general ideas and styles evolve over time. But as I was saying before, the character screen of Alpha Protocol both acts and looks the same as Mass Effects. Vampire Bloodlines wasn't nearly as similar. Take a look at these three screenshots and ask yourself if one of them seems to look a little bit different than the others: It's been many years since I played Bloodlines but the skill system wasn't as much like A.P's as M.E's was/is, in both the design and looks. Are you really telling me you can't see much similarity in the layout, look and design? And please don't say that AP's skill system was as much influenced by uh, SSI's Curse of the Azure bonds because they both have skill points or some such.

Ya, big time dude. I agree . It might be to late to code in interruptions (I don't think they are able to happen, just judging from what I've seen) but ya I very much hope that there are some select, special locks that can't be attempted unless you have a character with really strong tech skills -- (otherwise there isn't as much point to specialize in tech skills) and definitely, definitely hope that there isn't unlimited tries ( I don't think Obisidian would do that.) I predict it'll be much like the Mass Effect system, where at each, uhm, what to call them -- 'skill milestone', you can attempt different levels of difficulty locks. I.E at 4 skills points you are capable of attempting unlocking easy locks, at 18 skill points you can finally attempt 'hard' locks, etc.

I was pretty much convinced that Mass Effect isn't overly too much like Alpha Protocol in that thread I made on the topic. But I think anyone would agree that the character skill screen, both the look and the underpinnings of it, are a take off of Mass Effect's system. If it wasn't for the differing skill point 'cost', it would be practically identical.

Not sure of all you said there but I understood the last bit about Oblivion! Oblivion had enemies that scaled automatically to your level. Which is a really lame way of doing things, if you ask me. It would have completely wrecked the game for me if it wasn't for mods that fixed it.