MedicineDan

I personally dislike the mask idea. One time use masks for short periods of time? Sure. Making people wear fabric over their faces for extended periods of time? Not for it at all. I firmly believe, in the long term, the science will show that it did very little to help or even hurt. It would be incremental either way and I don't believe much of an increment. That said, there are studies with opposing conclusions right now and I don't have time to wade through them all. I mean, I have an 'essential' job and I have a full time school load. lol All that said, I follow the rules. I mean, if things got too crazy, I would literally protest, but I'd follow the guidelines while I did it. Frankly, rather than worry about face masks and fomites, I'd simply provide more places for people to handwash. Hell, make it part of new building design. lol I joke about the NCLEX. If there's a question with a possible answer of "wash your hands," it's the right answer. I only have a year and a half or so before the nurse practitioner boards, but I'm assuming the same strategy that served me so well for my license will come in just as handy.

I liked Zoraptor's response to Elerond, whom I take at face value, but more insidious about the idea that 'the vaccine is almost here, be patient' is that it creates a moving goalpost. Unscrupulous people will use the vaccine promise as a way to further their own ends. It may be that we're finally putting in enough resources that we'll get a vaccine in record time, but even the most ridiculously optimistic outlook would put widespread availability several months in the future. The stay at home measures won't last that long. Probably not expressing myself very clearly at this point. My work/school schedule is a real bitch on Monday and Tuesday. Sleep is for the weak.

I'm happy to delete my response vis a vis vaccine euphoria to Zoraptor. I'm not saying that Sweden is entirely correct in their policy. However, I disagree with some of the assertions that it didn't work based on current straight up number of deaths or deaths per x. They always knew that they would have relatively more deaths in the short term. The contention is that they'd have the same number of deaths over the course of several months whether they came early or late. Might not be true, but at least argue against *that* point. ...And, seriously, Elerond, if you want to establish a specific meaning for a term, just throw it out there. If you want herd immunity to have one specific meaning, I'd be happy to accept it. Frankly, I've pretty much thought the meaning you cited at the beginning of your post was the established meaning anyhow. I'm not challenging you. I'm sincerely telling you I'm absolutely chill to accept terms other folks offer if they have a particular definition or set of facts on which we can agree in order to have even the chance of a conversation.

There's a larger argument here, but my point isn't really moral. My point is reality. People will eventually end the lockdown in significant ways. That's not a moral argument. It's an inevitable one. I have a dear friend I've known for ~40 years who was appalled when I said this months ago. The lockdown has an expiration date. Even if I accepted that it's entirely right to have the lockdown, the reality would still be that people will start rebelling against it in greater numbers. If there are key things we could try, we should focus on them. The perfect (which I don't concede is perfect at any rate) is truly the enemy of the good.

No, the idea of flattening the curve is that you spread out the deaths. There is simply no reasonable way to remove exposure to the virus over time unless you develop a vaccine. The realistic scenarios for a vaccine or significant therapeutics that will reduce death are beyond the time frame society can withstand these sort of lockdown measures. An extended lockdown waiting for a vax or some great breakthrough isn't feasible. Seriously, the idea of flattening the curve was *never* that the people killed off by the virus would be less. On a theoretical level, the people counted as dying from the virus was always the same. The reduction in death was from preventing the healthcare system in a certain area from being over-run. In the United States, this is the case. Sure, the idiotic but long praised governor of New York state made stupid mistakes, but even he had to admit that he had enough resources for the people who died. They were, in his words, going to die anyway.

Thanks, I just deleted my longwinded three paragraph response because your four sentences are more elegant. Thanks for nothing! :broad grin: EDIT: ...But if we cannot achieve herd immunity, which means vaccines are pretty much out of the question, then the 'rona is simply part of our lives and we'll have to accept it. Seriously, this is the most grim scenario. It also argues most for getting on with life and simply taking the steps to protect the at risk populations and get everyone else to something of a normal life as best as possible.

I actually agree with this except I can't figure out a way that I could do it for myself that wouldn't entail a risk for at some other people. The unknowns make it hard for people to make decisions. The experts are all over the map, so why should we laypeople be expected to make informed decisions? The people who could theoretically inform us have no better handle on the situation than we do. The best of them have had several missteps. As regards Sweden, the point isn't whether they have more deaths up front. The point wasn't that they would have fewer deaths in March and April. The point was that they would have more up front deaths but that they would achieve greater immunity sooner. Frankly, I don't think it's a bad idea in that the idea of flattening the curve wasn't that you would have less deaths. The idea is that you wouldn't have a mass of deaths that overwhelm the system in the short term. In that regard, Sweden has succeeded. The question which can't be answered is whether or not treatments or vaccines would make it so people would be safe in outer months which means they wouldn't need to die. That's still an unknown. We hope to have a vaccine soon, but the chances remain very unlikely. Treatments aren't progressing as quickly or as well as we'd hoped. We won't know if Sweden has succeeded literally for several months. We will be arguing about these things for years. History will debate them forever. Well... nothing earthly lasts forever, but as long as our species exists at least.

I'm a new nurse. Been on the floor for just over two months. Fun times! I was using the correct PPE at the time. It just happened we got more info through testing.

It isn't a matter of whether or not we should end the lockdown. We *will* end the lockdown in any nation with a semblance of freedom. Yeah, just don't. My argument is not about whether it's right or wrong. My point is, it will happen. Humanity is simply not possessed of the character to stay locked away from one another. The lockdown will either end with governments taking reasonable approaches and trying to minimize exposure while allowing people out or governments will try to keep people under lockdown indefinitely and the lockdowns will crack open. It's that simple and has been for some time. Anyhow, to make this about me, which is my favorite topic, I had a patient from somewhere nearby some weeks back. He was double tested negative for the 'Rona and so was only under standard precautions. I admitted this guy who apparently had exposure for some brief time after testing negative. Then he came to us. I had him a total of... 3 times? I think with no PPE other than gloves. Guy's coughing and whatnot much of the time and, especially admitting, you really have to get up close and personal to auscultate and palpate and give a much more thorough assessment than after you know he's stable and you're concentrating on a specific system. lol First, the good news. I believe he lived, although he transferred out and I have no access to info after that. Second, more good news, it's been long enough, I either never caught it or the massive amounts of beer and booze I drink on my days off killed the nasty bugs before they could do me any harm. :big beefy grin: EDIT: Removed something that could, although unlikely, have been identifying of the patient.

We're playing 5th edition and she's pretty excited. Strange group in that everyone plays characters that actually fit their own personalities. None of this business where the tongue tied nerd plays the bard. For example, my other niece (22yo) plays a sorcerer. She's a wonderful kid, but a bit vain and constantly taking selfies, tweaking her hair, that sort of stuff. My brother in law is Mr. Fixit and he plays a rogue. Anyhow, I've looked into Roll20 also. I think I played a small one on one session with a friend who was running a game. I just want something that will be easy and intuitive for a young player starting to branch out into the role of DM.

Keep on the Borderlands! :wink and grin: My pathfinder group likes modules. We're almost done with a campaign where the main baddie is some guy named Lols or some such. Unfortunate name for a non-comical bad guy. I always create my own campaigns, so I haven't run a module for years, but I did enjoy Expedition to the Barrier Peaks back in the 80s.

Sorry about the thread necromancy, but my 16 year old niece has gotten into DnD with me and now she wants a hand at creating her own campaign. We've had to resort to internet gaming and I was wondering what would be good and easy for both a 50 year old grognard like myself as well as friendly for a young adult. I don't mind dropping coin on it if it's good. I don't mind getting something free as long as it does the job. Also, any tools that will help her run a tabletop? I do my stuff by hand (maps and whatnot), but I wouldn't mind using something that makes my life easier also.

My wife cuts my hair and I dye hers. Now that she works at home, she realizes her hair isn't as grey as she thought. At first it was like, "I'll have you dye it right before the big meeting." Now it's, "we can wait until I go back to the classroom." lol Just a quick aside: you're a real bastard, giftd! You and your full head of hair. Mine's getting pretty thin. Hope everyone is staying safe.

This crazy assed noc shift schedule combined with school is killing my game time even more than previously. I finally finished Episode 3 of Wintermute from The Long Dark. Fun game, but they made changes that really dropped down the difficulty. I don't mind, though. I've played it on... Survivor? Whatever the hardest mode is. It's brutal game in sandbox, but I think the story mode really *should* be easier. I think they had the vast majority of their players not finish the first episode because the learning curve was too high for most folks. Maybe more people found this current episode more casual play friendly. I think I'll finally go back to that Disco adventure game I started a while back. I only got about five minutes in before I basically couldn't play for a while and now I want to explore it some more. If it's too demanding, though, I'll have to wait for a while. Always on the lookout for good games when I lurk on these boards.

I've been lucky in that I work in an essential service and so I can get out. The Long Dark is great, but I find it unfulfilling. I just haven't had time to get into a totally new game since Pillars 2.

As a further aside, there's this great game called Grim Fandango. I started it, life got in the way, and I lost the disks. Never finished. I should see if GoG has it. It was brilliant.

If he wants to. ...Or you, Shady. Not my cuppa brew, but I've always the policy of spreading good cheer regardless of what zombie spaghetti monster folks celebrate. :faint smile with one raised eyebrow:

Too early... https://www.bing.com/search?q=day+of+the+dead&PC=U316&FORM=CHROMN

Oops, on my phone and didn't realize I was in CnC. Please move to OT.

This is the day that that Lord has made! Let us rejoice and be glad in it! Day off for me, so I'm chillin' and getting ready to go to bed. Whatever your creed, or lack thereof, I'm wishing you a happy and healthy day!

Still playing Long Dark episode three five to ten minutes at a time.

Oh, it's just a silly inside joke, Skazz. ...And now I guess I have to admit that maybe things *do* change around here. You're new, and that's a change on the good side.

Eldar! <.< Yeah, I felt dirty doing it, but I've had it done to me so often, I wanted payback. Bastards.

I haven't had time for nothin' lately, but I've decided to eek out a little time to try the 3rd episode of the Long Dark: Wintermute. I think it's the latest one. This time, we're playing as Astrid. Not bad so far. Seems we can save the game now, even quicksave.

One of the things that I love about this board is that it's like a time machine. I hope people take this as I mean it rather than how it may sound. Nothing really changes that much here. It's like a pocket dimension. The people in these parts are kind of like family, both good and bad. Sure, I feel kind of like the black sheep, but I don't mind. I leave and do other stuff, but I always wonder what's going on here. Eventually, I come back and poke my head in. Apparently, my pedestrian style is *just* distinctive enough to recognize. This is truly one of the tightest knit online communities I've ever seen, and I've been involved with a few. Anyhow, I've always been kind of a loner. Not the cool Fonzie leather jacket wearing kind. More the one who can laugh and joke but is always looking for the exit. This place is perfect. I can come, play in the sandbox for a while, and then go. When I come back, the band of brothers are still here, like Valhalla where all the warriors on every side feast each other with drink and song. Nothing can pull this place apart. Clearly, Covid-19 can't.