Product of the Cosmos

We know how cancer comes about; we just don't know how to stop it. I haven't looked into AIDS but I assume there are some plausible theories about it by now. In any case, I do not see your point. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> if you don't understand already, i'm sure you soon will, althernai... 99% of PoTC's argument is typically based on logical fallacy (too numerous to list), generally without substance. for example, the above statement is meant to imply that "since we don't know for sure, there must be something sinister going on" or, even better, "since we don't know for sure, then the worst possible reason must be to blame." with a little bit of research, i could probably find a dozen fallacies just with this one quote... he's good at that, no doubt. the flaws in his argument are only exacerbated by the fact that there is very little scientific evidence to back his claims. should he ever decide to provide real evidence of his claims, or attempt to provide valid counter-arguments, the logical problem won't be as devastating to his argument (perhaps even something to be overlooked). until then... this is his standard MO, btw, unchanging and unwilling to do so. pointing out valid science results in "but they're in on it, too" replies. every once in a while, he'll mention something worth discussion, but it's buried so deep within the rhetoric and self righteousness, nobody cares. taks <{POST_SNAPBACK}> lol. Yes taks, it is clear you have thought about me with your reality hand in hand quite frequently. I'm flattered..

lol. Would you say it's far fetched to say we are not masters at knowing what we are? Who am I to speak for the human race? I am one. A sovereign entity. I think it's pretty clear that we barely know about ourselves. If you think we know everything, then you must be dumbfounded every single day when we learn more. lol... Anyone of this planet, who says they know everything about genetics, is pretending. Good for you, I hope you develop/find/etc and further our knowledge in physics. I could tell you I know what the heart does, when speaking in certain context. Would I know the entire hearts process? That's a whole diff story. Do you think they would be speaking in context when they say they know something? Like they know +A1, +A2, -A5 = Xdesired effect, but not the entire matrix surrounding the applied change. Ask them sometime if they think they know every possible effect any particular genetic alteration could have, when speaking in short term, long term, etc... Maybe you will be suprised.. You mean we know what causes cancer in individuals. How about why it's there in the first place? When and why it started happening in humans, etc. My point is such things are tied to genetics, obviously. Saying we know everything there is to know about genetics is like saying you know html because you know a few simple commands by trial and error, ignorant of the entire system applied. Just knowing how to manipulate certain things within the system. Now unless your system is expungeable you don't go ****ing around majorly with stuff you don't know. You tinker if anything. Tinkering is not changing a few commands and spamming them through the entire system. Now maybe you aren't following me still, in that case you can go back to your normal tin foil comments. lol If you are so interested in progress, work to help stop war from happening. As it is our main focus. Sure it has dropped us many practical things in everyday life in the process of constant making of weapons and processes of killing efficiently, but thats just pennies slipping out of the hand of the war resources being burnt. I just don't think it's right to use massive amounts of people, and your one known home planet, as your test subjects. lol. I dunno maybe we have 2 home planets and this one is for ****ing up and testing on(LOL), but it just doesn't seem too logical to do it at the rate and mass that we are doing it at. Maybe our opinions will differ. It's just the way I see it. Then I guess there goes the comment that it saves peoples lives... lol. Wow, someone finally egknowledged this. lol. Maybe you haven't noticed it but judges are people too. lol. And you can damn well bet every judge in America that could possibly get a case of that magnitude, knows Monsanto well. Just recently a judge ruled in favor of Monsanto for a ruling of 2.9 million dollars, and putting a family farm out of business. They are going around suing people for supposedly using their product on their crops, when it just blows over with pollen. That's pretty ****ing evil if you ask me. Putting family farms out of business by suing them on faulty charges and slowly but surely monopolizing the 'test subjects' food sources by eliminating the farmers who didn't want to useyour product and were forced to?! lol. Halliburton? lol Please.............. They gained 200+ million in phony profits, and were fined 7.5 million. Hmm.... They sure lost a lot on that one! Certain cases will not be heard. This is one of those types of cases if it happened. For example, the former Bob Dole eployee who claims to have conclusive FBI evidence that the Bush admin were involved in carrying out the 9-11 attacks. And is trying to sue them for it. Not being heard! When you have the judge threatening your life on the street, LMFAO! Good luck getting that case, slick. In the event they did go down? A couple of the culprits would fess up, and be prosecuted, and the rest of the affiliations and people would just move onto another corp. How about Enron? Many of them jumped ship early, and landed job in the White House!! LOL. Gotta love America..

lol newc. Can you answer the question? Me talking about my point of view: "I have given ample opportunity to show what it is, I just think you and others show you don't understand what it is." newc:"you keep claiming that and yet nobody believes you. odd, isn't it?" Nobody believes that I know what my opinion is? lol. How much dodging can you do? Do you actually believe I don't know what my own opinion on this is? If you can't answer the question just don't post about it, or say you can't. But then saying I'm wrong would be pretty naive if you didnt know what I was saying in the first place. LOL. _______________________ Anyway, my point of view on screwing with genetics first hand, is we have a very complex world. We have very complex bodies. DNA plays a big role in this. We are major mysteries to ourselves. Our whole intricate system here on Earth is beyond our comprehension at this time. Pretending we know is not smart IMO. If we mess with genetics directly too much it could have very horrible ramifications. Do we know how AIDS came about? How about cancer? Or much of the illnesses we have. We don't. We understand things about them but we don't know their origin as far as I know. A plague is coming in the next 10 years I predict. Possibly from GE stuff, possibly just from exhaustion of rainforests, or possibly from a lab from one of these ****ed up groups on purpose or a mistake. Or maybe a bit of all of those all combined. If we are to modify, I think we should tread lightly, be cautious. Be humble. We are not exactly genetic masters. If we were we would conjure up a cure for aids or cancer easily. Thus is not the case(least publically). Having people like Monsanto being at the helm of GE stuff, is not exactly smart IMO. If we are at a pont where we need genetically altered food to survive, then why have we not implemented hemp into society? Hemp would be the biggest revolution in environmental variables in this generation. It's nutrient mix is perfect for the human body. It helps the soil. Its a tough plant, grows in more places then any plant in the world. Makes just about anything you would ever need. It would replace fossil fuels in a LARGE way. No, dont give me any guff about being efficient and needing to use GE stuff, because we are not efficient.. lol. We are not doing what we can. We are lazy ****s. And I resent that.

Hades you said we have been GE'ing our foods for a long time. Hundreds of years. Well if thats true then we have been GE ourselves by picking our mates. Get my head straight?! How about you get your head out of your ass and understand what I'm saying for once hades. There are different methods of genetic manipulation. Your blending them all in one. Naive. And no I dont eat human. But we are genetically having people. And changing genetics I dont think only applies to food for us. Think in a universal mindset instead of an isolated human one. Regardless. America is the big ginea pig as smarter nations wont use GE foods in large numbers. Good Luck.

UHhh newc, are you saying you dont know what my arguement is, yet you say Its wrong>? LoL. I have given ample opportunity to show what it is, I just think you and others show you don't understand what it is.

Anyway, still not answering my Q's. The person who provided the links as if they were fact. Give us an overview of what it covered, as based on facts. You know, the findings, as the 'abstracts' dont give any facts. It seems to me you are talking **** to me for providing in your view faulty sources, and not reading yours all the way(when the damn link is broken), I doubt you even read your own. So prove that you did, and save us all the time, and give us the quotes of the facts provided. EDIT: The link works now(damn IE). Anyway, I'm not paying 30 dollars for that ****. lol. Thats pretty funny. Did you? Its quite funny to me that you most likely didnt even read your own sources. rofl. and agian, to those who say I'm wrong in my arguement. What is my arguement? You have to know my arguement before saying it is wrong with confidence I hope. People come into the convo with IMO stupid judgements and I say they are not thought out and give an alternate view. But my point in posting this is not to say GE food is not safe in a nutshell.

uhh. Well a concept is a concept. Selective breeding, is a concept. And is it not what we do when we choose a mate? Just because you can't comprehend something doesn't mean it's very different. Once AGIAN, I'm reffering to synthetically altered GE foods being iffy.. In any case, I brought up the Monsanto corp, and facts about them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Again, human beings are not food. We are discussing food, so selective breeding in livesstock is a form of genetic engineering. You might be talking in concept, but I prefer to talk in specifics. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> uhh.. I'm discussing genetics. And who manages them. And humanbeings may be food, just not to you

I understand your argument, what I attack is the scientific basis you have used to make several of your ridiculous statements. None of these you have been even remotely successful in defending. Quite frankly, you're blind. If you can't see the huge button on the first two (for example) with "click for full text articles" then you're more than a bit lost. The references to the papers are directly above that. I know for a fact you only read the abstracts, you just proved that not seconds before You, after all, couldn't even find the link to get to the full text or even that those weren't the entire article. Included for future reference. Two things: 1) Writing at least semi-correctly makes you look less retarded. 2) You did it again as your final sentence should be 'you ARE a grammar Nazi' and not, 'your a grammar Nazi'. Not only did you manage to mangle your grammar however, but you even managed to spell 'grammar' incorrectly just to add insult to injury. Oh well. I knew I shouldn't have bothered. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I spell balogne, baloney. Get over it. It's not relevant.

Non clickable 'review' and 'review tutorial' is what I see.. On one there is a broken link that says full text article. But maybe I did overlook something though. What are you clicking? How about the person who read them, give the facts of what they found. And You say you understand my arguement. So what is it? I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Your point? Did you read them? Answer the question. Of course I didn't. lol.

What is my arguement in your eyes? Do you even understand what I am saying? You say I'm wrong. So I assume you think you do. So what is my arguement? As for the reviews, send me the links. I saw no link in there to them. YOu presented exactly what you said, abstract, non concclusive conjecture. Saying they are true. lol.... Did you even read them? Or did you just read the abstracts?! O_O As for your grammer edit. If you fail to understand the point of text then I guess you must break it down. If you comprehend the text, then the text has served it's purpose. Nitpicking literal text, is not as important as understanding the meaning of the text itself. But I wouldn't expect you to know that as you said your a 'grammer nazi'. lol

your edit: Your quite foolish to think in 30 years we have mastered the building blocks of life. That we know all of the effects provided by such. As for your remarks about Tin foil hat wearer.... Childish, but no suprise you would say something regarding my mind as odd, as yours does not work. So mine must seemvery alien to you, I understand. As for newc, as you show I guess your a forum heckler. Good Luck.

Link #1: lol. People who make money off them will say they are safe?! WOW! Real conclusive evidence it doesn't hurt us here. Link #2: Just says what they are doing. Conclusive eh? Link #3: I agree with its starting statement: It keeps saying 'this review covers'.. Uhh, wheres the review? Where is your evidence? Link #4: Thus far. I'm talking about conclusive evidence that it's safe. Not an assumption. Where are the facts? Where are the findings? These are just outlines for their plans and speculations. LOL! You know, we have been using teflon in cooking. And Dupont had insisted it was safe. Now it has been found to cause cancer. We find new things often. I assume you know that. So it's curious how you can say with certainty there is no safety hazard with GE foods. ____________________________ More on Monsanto. People were talking about the GE pollen going from one crop to another? Well ya, it is. And the farmers who want to grow organic are forced to grow somewhat GE crops that they did not want to. Not so bad, but still screwed up if ya ask me. But how about this ! Monsanto has filed MANY lawsuits agianst farmers claiming they need to pay the Monsanto tech fee for using their products, when it just blew on their fields. And many farmers are going bankrupt because of it. More signs of an evil corp. Novus Ordo Seclorum.

If I spray toxins in your area, am I not affecting you? How is it something can negatively effect the environment we live in, and not effect us? And where did I isolate GE foods negative effects to strictly consumption? As for your 'voice of reason' comment. LOL< if you say reason is 'Genetics in foods dont affect us in any way', heh........ Your not exactly the brightest person I've met. There is also no scientific evidence they are NOT harmful. In this field there is not much conclusive. So really it's about consideration. If you think the building blocks of life are so easy to understand, I guess our opinion differs majorly on the subject.

uhh. Well a concept is a concept. Selective breeding, is a concept. And is it not what we do when we choose a mate? Just because you can't comprehend something doesn't mean it's very different. Once AGIAN, I'm reffering to synthetically altered GE foods being iffy.. In any case, I brought up the Monsanto corp, and facts about them.

lol. tin foil hat wearers.... What a talking point. ANyway, if you base your info on FACTS and facts alone, you would know that many many people in power are not to be trusted. Funny how as soon as someone questions something you say they wear a tin foil hat. But, you know, I have been looking for tin foil. All I can find is aluminaum foil, and that too, is toxic. Is tin foil even still around?? (lol) LOL!!!!!!!! So lemme get this straight, we aren't altered by genes in our food in any way, because we eat cows and chickens, and we have not turned into cows and chickens or something?? *painful laugh* My god....... How dumb are my own people...

Selective wife breeding, is the same concept eh? LOL I would think careful GE stuff would be ok under rigorous testing, and true scrutiny by the FDA< but this doesn't happen. And Monsanto is a perfect example.

So basically your saying direct quotes from the corp, along with facts about their ties to the FDA, is false? lol. Wow is all I gotta say I guess. Maybe I am out of place, and maybe our people deserve what we are getting. Good Luck.

You mean I posted a post? I don't take 'meds'. I am quite functional. You however hate frequently an informative post. WHat are you, 13 years old? Stop following me around on here if you don't have anything to add to the topic other then hate spam, kid.. You mean something like picking your wife when you marry and have kids, your genetically engineering your kids? lol. Well regardless, I'm talking about SYNTHETIC means of doing such. As for the obliigatory tin foil comment that is in every thread beyond some peoples comprehension on these boards. lol. No suprise for children to make stupid comments. I present startling facts about a company that is affecting the world, and idiot kids say some tin foil remark. lol... I guess your the ones that deserve shotty food. Good luck. No, I don't trust many of them.. And yes, many will use whatever the easiest thing is for easy money, and that is screwed up. Not to mention has negative effects. LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You believing in God or not, do you think in a short amount of years we have mastered genetics? GAH, I cant stand how stupid people like you are. Cya around... Im leaving this child filled forum for now.

http://www.big-boys.com/articles/topdui.html lol. http://www.big-boys.com/articles/baddude.html lol http://www.big-boys.com/articles/copfinger.html http://www.fullofjokes.com/articles/badsinging.html lol Not exactly funny but WHOA: http://www.big-boys.com/articles/ufosight.html

Of course we are... Look who is making them? Do you trust these people?

Anyone remember a discussion/arguement some of us had a while back(mainly me and mith)? Well regardless, this is some amazing info, that happens to coincide with what I was saying... And being dogged on for saying(just because I don't wear a white coat)...... lol. Well, hmmm. Mith, whoever else who was doubting what I was saying by saying they test the stuff well? LOL! I think that about sums it up... I guess if you trust the Federal givernment to keep you safe, maybe I'm going to far in saying those quotes are ****ing ridiculous. But theres more. It would be nice to think the FDA can be trusted with these matters, but think again. Monsanto has succeeded in insuring that government regulatory agencies let Monsanto do as it wishes. Take a look: -Prior to being the Supreme Court Judge who put GW Bush in office,Clarence Thomas was Monsanto's lawyer -The U.S. Secretary of Agriculture (Anne Veneman) was on the Board of Directors of Monsanto's Calgene Corporation -The Secretary of Defense (Donald Rumsfeld) was on the Board of Directors of Monsanto's Searle pharmaceuticals -The U.S. Secretary of Health, Tommy Thompson, received $50,000 in donations from Monsanto during his winning campaign for Wisconsin's governor -The two congressmen receiving the most donations from Monsanto during the last election were Larry Combest (Chairman of the House Agricultural Committee) and Attorney General John Ashcroft. (Source: Dairy Education Board) In order for the FDA to determine if Monsanto's growth hormones were safe or not, Monsanto was required to submit a scientific report on that topic. Margaret Miller, one of Monsanto's researchers put the report together. Shortly before the report submission, Miller left Monsanto and was hired by the FDA. Her first job for the FDA was to determine whether or not to approve the report she wrote for Monsanto. In short, Monsanto approved its own report. Assisting Miller was another former Monsanto researcher, Susan Sechen. Deciding whether or not rBGH-derived milk should be labeled fell under the jurisdiction of another FDA official, Michael Taylor, who previously worked as a lawyer for Monsanto. Now seriously. Who is not logical here, the conspiracy theorist, or the coincidence theorist???? Interested in knowing more about this shady corporation with it's hands in Washington, like so many at this time? More on this crazy ass company. If anyone who is reading this knows anything about cocaine, the CIA, and the stock market connection to both, heh, this doesn't exactly scream coincidence. LOL!!!!!!! Look at your 1 dollar bill Americans, read the writing underneath the pyramid with the eye over it, its latin, and it mean New World Order. Novus Ordo Seclorum. Whether this 'order' is new or not, we need to ****ing get rid of it. lol. All these corps and groups are linked. Halliburton(Cheney), ABB(Rumsfeld), Bechtel, Monsanto, Exxon(CONdoleeza Rice), Carlyle Group(lol, to many big names to name), many others(Bush, lol). And holy ****, how the hell they get away with this ****, is beyond me. We must all be asleep or something. More? ok. This ones more on topic. Still think GE stuff is good mith? Or anyone? Is my 'uneducated non-scientist' rants about genetically ****ing with our food being bad still so stupid to some of you? .... Scientists from the University of Manitoba have released a report indicating, "Under current conditions the release of Roundup Ready wheat in Western Canada would be environmentally unsafe." Despite the landslide of data revealing probable negative impacts on the environment, the economy and human health, the FDA is posed to approve Monsanto's GE wheat... Why? Wait, the FDA is full of Monsanto employees. lol..... How about a laundry list of corporations known for ties with this devious corp? Organic and Natural Product Companies Associated with Monsanto:

I agree. Kerry is a shmuck too.. And no matter who is pres, doesnt matter if it's JEZIS, lol. Our system has so much crazy stupid stuff a show like the daily show will thrive just about no matter what.

ROFL!!!! Because people enjoy a show that you don't you say they will start a cult, and are 'groundkissers'.. lol.. Keep it comin JN, make that heartrate rise. *cheers on natural selection* lol. Ya you do. You stand to keep the mindset that America and Bush can do no evil. lol. And your right you do make that clear. You make it clear you don't enjoy people reading information. lol. You make it clear you interpret information with a complete Bush-fanboyish slant. uhhh.. Well if the show producer was 'smart' they wouldn't invite Stewart to begin with. And if they thought it was out of his league to be on their show, they, wouldn't have had him there. LOL. Critical thinking..... you lack in your statements. lol. LMAO!!! Cover up? You crack me up JN. You mean because Bush is easier to make fun of you think he's partisan? What if he is?! The entire network of fox news is made to be partisan. lol. You defend fox news or Bush like its your daughter.. lol.

Huh? You mean the E-vile Amerikkan Empire had nothing to do with bleeding the Communist Utopia dry? The mujadeen destroyed our Red Soviet Comrades? /sarcasm In case you didn't notice, the Afganistan conflict was at it's most severe was a morale sap. Not to mention the fact that without US assistance the Soviets would have crushed the mujadeen utterly. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I may have implied that to you. The point was they have considerable experience in doing it. Here is another quote from Osama:

And following up on my theory on page 7 or whatever it was.. More evidence taks http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm