brindle88

I here you and it sounds like a fun build and I will more then likely try it out. I am certain this build is not more powerful then a rogue. To compare these two builds you have to take them on there own merits eg buffs from priests, casters ect should not be included. A rogue can obvisiouly be buffed by a priest to give it an advantage as well. I also tried and tested the priests interdictions and they did realistically include an entire casting/ attack round, so for you to say the priest buffing the barb (quickly) is not correct, the opportunity cost of this is the priest casting a far more powerful spell at perhaps a slightly longer frame rate. Taking the above into consideration, let's look at the two builds : Barbarian - it's is agreed that the barbarians most powerful ability is to apply afflictions to mobs via its carnage, and this ability has been nerfed to not include spell striking abilities from weapons. You need to remember that these afflictions only apply on crits which is probably on average 15% of hits (at the most) with a barb - I think the above is the only thing the barbarian is good at - apart from the carnage all other melee classes can do everything else a barb can do but better. - if you look at the barbarian talent tree for selection upon level up there are no talents to choose from that are comparable to powerful rogue talents and powerful fighter talents. - even if the barb was succesful at carnage critting/ stunning a mob there are about 20 spells that spellcasters can cast that can do the same but better, at a distance out of melee range and therefore better protected. Rogue (Where do I start) - sneak attacks - talents to chose from that GREATLY increase crits, therefore applying procs more often then the barb with certain weapons - DEATHBLOWS , holy **** this ability is powerful - invisibility to immediately break engagement that by the way no spell caster can replicate. A rogue will win every time, the barbarian will locked down with dps that will kill it in less the 6 seconds.

Interesting, I will be trying a barb on my next play through. Can you confirm that they can stun or jolting touch multiple targets with there carnage ability? Can you or anyone else please also give me other tips form building a good barb. I agree with your statement on wizards, they have overall the most powerful spells when you combine there entire repertoire. Though when you look at individual spells I think the most powerful are the ciphers amplified wave, the ciphers spell that chain confuses groups (I can't remember its name), the ciphers spell that chain reduces attack speed, and the Druids spell relentless storm. Relentless storm will basically stun lock the entire screen. Amplified wave is basically an I win button.

Sounds interesting, I might give it a try, but I don't think will be as effective as rogue and fighter builds for the following reasons. - you have said it is very important for a priest to cast 2 buff spells before for this to take its full effect. So A: you need a priest B: that is two actions a priest is doing (or another caster) that could do damage or de buffs to the bad guys. So in effect I think you have equaled out the benefits from this as rogues and fighters are more self sufficient. - you have only noted 2 barbarian talents that you think are of any use, with the third you mentioned interrupting blows available for selection by any class. It is absurd that obsidian have created an entire class with no useful abilities. - one point I am interested in is carnage and how effective it is at stunning/ proning/ spell striking groups of enemies in one hit. I have read a previous thread where a barbarian with a animancer boots, plus the 20% shock ability and high might and perception was seriously wiping out entire groups of enemies by spreading the jolting touch to just about all enemies on the screen.

Completely disagree with op, Melee rogue and wizard are by far the 2 most powerful builds if built right. I noticed the op picked the backstab talent....................just proves he has no idea, backstab is a wage of a talent, as a rogue you can permanently lock down and opponent with sneak attacks, death blows and crits and kill them before they can even blink Stupid stupid stupid op

I downloaded it from steam today. I want my money back.

I think 6 players makes the game to easy, and they also capped the level cap to early, I hit level 14 with about 30% of the game left

I have tried REALLY hard to make barbarian builds work. But I encountered the following problems witch led me to conclude they are the worst melee class build. - you cannot min max effectively as they need high stats in just about everything including intelligence - the whole point of the build "frenzy" basically gives you a very minor dps boost for a significant deflection nerf???? Wtf is the point of this. - the talents and abilities to choose from upon level up are very mediocre, hardly make any difference to making your barbarian more effective They really need there talents buffed, a rogue will kill a barbarian (or 2) every time

Change Fighter with Monk and you have a much better combatant. Give the Monk the same armor and weapons and the Monk will hit harder and faster with Lightning strikes and any damage you take become wounds which fuel your attacks. Even with just auto attacks the Monk will do more than the Fighter, which unfortunately for the Fighter is all they get. Add in the Monks AoE attacks or super duration knockdowns and you outclass the Fighter by a mile. The only thing a Fighter is better at is going full meat sack with the taking damage for the team aura. Not a fan of monks, they may be good but just not my style

The whole damage reduction concept I feel has made a lot of the weapons redundant. Towards of the end of my path of the dammed game my fighters never used the single hand melee weapons, and they where the really best ones fully enchanted like the stunning hammer and that flale. I was constantly hitting for 7-12 damage. The 2 handed swords and fire arms where the only wepons doing damage. Hitting for 40 plus damage. Sure they are slower but the damage reduction on your enemies makes the single handed weapons useless (except sabres, purg and res) Another balancing issue I wish was overhauled.

Owe and buy the way obsidian just officially sold half a million copies of pillars. Looks like we will be getting a pillars of eternity 2 and maybe even a 3. Good work obsidian

That doesn't make them not standard effects. You can't enchant a weapon with Marking or Stunning and so on, but they're nonetheless predictable, standard effects, and ones presented not as a special, unique effect for a specific item or couple of items, but as a generic property, complete with fixed values for the effect and a number you can use to compare it with other generic properties. Spell-effect-on-trigger enchantments are perhaps the exception there and could make for some more interesting items, if they weren't so sparsely used. I don't understand why you're discounting enchantments other then Fine, Exceptional and Superb. Not all Superb items are equal, but - at least in theory - all 8/12 items should be roughly as good as each other, or at least have sets of enchantments that are equally powerful before considering synergy. It's that level of fine, systematic balance, with all possible effects carefully genericized and weighed against each other - and perhaps most crucially(?), that weighing-up being presented directly to the player rather than having happened under-the-hood while the items were being developed - that spoils the sense of idiosyncrasy and spontaneity about finding new items, That is opinion question, so there is no right answer, but game has two pools of enchantments one that can be enchanted to every weapon and one that consist of enchantments that are already in the weapons, which I call special enchantments. And as I previously said there aren't enough special enchantments in the game to give every unique weapon their own unique enchantment because there is so much different types of weapons (also Obsidian originally planed that every or at least most of the enchantments in game would be such that players themselves could enchant them in the weapons, but they decided against this after community asked that there should be more unique weapons) In common enchantments there are quality enchantments Fine, Exceptional and Superb (there are also Damaging and Accurate enchantments that go from 1 to 2 giving either same damage or accuracy bonus so that 1 is same as fine and 2 is same as exceptional, there is also level 3 versions of these but player can't enchant them) Lash or secondary damage enchantments that give lash damage bonus, which is its own type of damage in PoE. There are 4 types of common lash enchantments Burning Lash, Corrosive Lash, Freezing Lash and Shocking Lash, which all gives you +25% of lash damage in element corresponding with its name. And Slaying enchantments, which give weapon additional accuracy and damage against certain type of enemies. Kith (humans, elves, dwarfs, etc.), Beast, Primordial, Spirit, Vessel, and Wilder. Weapons can be given one enchantment of each of these categories, so one quality, one lash and one slaying Then there are unique/special enchantment pool which have following enchantments Predatory Convert +10% of Hits to Crits Reliable Convert +30% of Grazes to Hits Draining 20% of Damage restored as Endurance Speed +20% Attack Speed Coordinating +4 Accuracy and x1.25 Damage when attacking same target as an ally Vicious x1.2 Damage against Prone, Stunned, Flanked enemies Wounding Wounding: x0.25 Damage over time (5 sec) Stunning Attacks can Stun on Crits Spell Striking Attacks cast Spell on crit (once per encounter) Minor Spellbind grants Spell as active ability (x uses per rest) Major Spellbind grants Spell as active ability (x uses per rest) Guarding +1 Enemies Engaged Rending +3 DR bypass Interfering +5 Deflection Overbearing Crits can inflict Prone Annihilation +0.5 Crit Damage multiplier Valiant x1.2 Damage and +10 Accuracy when below 50% Endurance Crushing Lash x1.25 Crush Damage Disorienting Inflicts -5 All Defenses for 6 sec on Hit Marking +10 Accuracy granted to an ally attacking the same target Of [Attribute] +/-[Amount] +/-[Amount] to [Attribute] [Damage Type]-Proofed +3 DR to [Damage Type] [Class] only can only be equipped by [Class] So why I discount other enchantments when I speak about fine, exceptional and superb (also damaging and accurate) is because they are enchantments that lock each other away, but they don't prevent or remove any other enchantments. All enchantment also have enchantment point cost and items can only have enchantments up to 12 points worth of enchantments to prevent too powerful items (balance feature that was added during beta because of player feedback). All these item enhancements you have mentioned have no flare and are generally quite boring. We need more of the exciting spell striking abilities like that stiletto you get early on with jolting touch. You no to add a bit more excitement instead if a sword that let's you "plus 1 engaged " or an axe that has " -3 damage reduction". All these token and nearly useless enhancements aren't even worth while trying to go out of your way to get them. I hardly ever purchase items for merchants in pillars and one weapon is almost just the same as the next weapon, but slightly different, so no real need to look for different ones

Bingo bingo... in the sense that this is exact what we would want the developers to avoid. carsomyr were a ridiculous overpowered weapon that you could gets early in the game. get your ultimate weapon and armour early in the game and then... well, that's it for equipment improvements for burt the paladin, eh? oh, and if you didn't follow the old soa boards and you were not aware that carsomyr were a greatsword, then the joke is on you burt. you chose long sword and so you end up with carsomyr envy for the next 50 to 150 hours o' gaming. sucker. etc. carsomyr is a great example o' what were freaking wrong with bg2 weapons. yeah, it's a game, so folks understandably wanna win, and better equipment means a stronger character. unfortunately, the presence o' powerful equipment, particularly if that equipment is only available to a particular build, is a bad idea. so yeah, "bingo." carsomyr were exact what obsidian should be attempting to avoid, regardless o' the fact that similarly powerful weapons is an attractive nuisance. HA! Good Fun! bg2 has been consistently voted number 1 rpg of all time by critics and user alike. Maybe you should go tell the critics that according to you there is something wrong with the game,............

Anyone lse got some our powered builds after the latest patch, come on share them with us. Can't see anyone bettering the wizards, rogues and fighter builds though. I really think ciphers are over rated but They are still fun, Barbarians, rangers and canters need a complete over haul, they are week and boring. Paladins are weak but fun

hey mate, can you please elaborate on the benfits of sanguine plate? I had a good look at it but the -10 deflection during frenzy put me off it, you also need high intelligence to make this work properly and int is a dump stat for fighters. Anyone else on good patch 2 builds?????

Right . I have studied then crap out of this topic and I have come to 3 builds that i think are fare and away more pwerful,then any other build. I will list them in order from most powerful, to least powerful: 1. Fighter, with tidefall enchanted with white forge, and that plate you get in WM enchanted to suberb and white forge enchantmen, belt of blunting and not much else matters. The soulbound weapons have there uses but are not comparable to fully enchanted customised weapons, the -15 armour penalty talent is an absolute good send, this combined with high dex will make your fighter into a dps killing machine 2. Wizard , the wizard is vastly overpowerd and rightly so. They need no weapons or armour or items that will really make any significant difference and they absolutley own the battle field, spells like slumber, mass confusion, petrify and that stunning frost fireball spell wreak havok. I think 2 wizards in a party would break the game ( I haven't tried it yet( 3. Rogue, this build requires the most work but if built right, with the right weapons, eg purgatory, resolution and animancer boots and all the crit bonos uses like merciless hand, dungeon delver ect will turn your rogue into a walking god. Tip don't drop intelligence to low you will need it to activate sneak attacks, death blows and crits. 4. The cipher gets a mention but only for 2 spells, AMPLIFIED WAVE is riduclodsly powerful by far the most powerful,spell in the game. Ecosykic echo is capable of melting entire high level party's if positioned right, heaps of fun. I fell the 2 level paralyse spell is over rated it only paralyzes for around 5 seconds and takes about nealy twice that to cast. 5. The druid gets a mention for the relentless storm spell, second most powerful spell after amplified wave.

The other threads where closed by the mods at my request because this elerond guy kept being really negative and posted heaps of off topic posts. I appreciate everyone's comments here but I would also appreciate it more if elerond would simply leave my threads alone. I look forward to discussing more pillars stuff soon.

The dps a ranger can produce is not that much different from a spellcaster with a ranged weapon who selects relevant ranged talents eg marksman, the + 6 accuracy one, gunner, ect. Plus you can obvisiouly cast spells. Kind of like a multi class ranged fighter/ mage. You would be stupid to pick a ranger Only caster can get even close is cipher and even they are quite far behind against single targets in ranged combat. If you want ranged single target dps character it would currently be stupid to choose any other class than ranger. It should be also noted that rangers are mostly passive in their damage dealing ability where with casters you need actually constantly control them to get most of their damage potential. Ok you can have your ranger who will do probably about no more then 10-15% dps then one of my spell casters using a ranged weapon who can also decimate enemies with a huge variety of spells . I think I've made my point. You where also the person on my last forum who hijacked my post and kept posting negative comments everywhere. May I respectfully request you stay away from my posts please and I will stay away from yours. Thanks. they do about 30-50% more dps than spell casters using ranged weapons.. That's no possible. 30 - 50 % is a pretty wide discrepancy mate which one is it 30 or 50. And like I said please stay away from my posts. You arguing for no other reason then to argue. There is no substance to what you are saying and no one wants to read this crap. Stay away from my posts or I will wipe it again by deleting all my posts. Go start your own thread man your to negative There are 3 spell caster in the game cipher that is closest to ranger in single damage dealing and then there are wizard and druid that are farther behind ranger in single target damage dealing, which is why the difference is 30-50%. (I didn't count in from spell casters priests and chanters who just can't compete in single target damage dealing with any of the other classes). PS. this forum offers ignore user function if you don't like to read what I write, but I will write what I want regardless of what you want and my post aren't aimed to you but other people that are actually interested how game's mechanics actually work. Mate you are stalking me on all my posts and arguing everything I say for no there reason then to piss me off. I had to close down an entire thread before because of you. Go find another thread and harass them. Go away. Your not welcome on my thread. Now I already have to delete this thread because of u again. This is only thread (and its previous version) where I have commented anything about your posts and if you get piss of because somebody disagrees what you write in interned forum (which whole point to exist is to discuss about things) then I would recommend chilling and even going to outside and think what things are actually important in the life. If you where so chilled and you no what's important in life why are you always trying to get the last word in. It is quite clear you are stalking me. So why don't you reflect on this and chill go for a walk outside and reflect on what's important in life

The dps a ranger can produce is not that much different from a spellcaster with a ranged weapon who selects relevant ranged talents eg marksman, the + 6 accuracy one, gunner, ect. Plus you can obvisiouly cast spells. Kind of like a multi class ranged fighter/ mage. You would be stupid to pick a ranger Only caster can get even close is cipher and even they are quite far behind against single targets in ranged combat. If you want ranged single target dps character it would currently be stupid to choose any other class than ranger. It should be also noted that rangers are mostly passive in their damage dealing ability where with casters you need actually constantly control them to get most of their damage potential. Ok you can have your ranger who will do probably about no more then 10-15% dps then one of my spell casters using a ranged weapon who can also decimate enemies with a huge variety of spells . I think I've made my point. You where also the person on my last forum who hijacked my post and kept posting negative comments everywhere. May I respectfully request you stay away from my posts please and I will stay away from yours. Thanks. they do about 30-50% more dps than spell casters using ranged weapons.. That's no possible. 30 - 50 % is a pretty wide discrepancy mate which one is it 30 or 50. And like I said please stay away from my posts. You arguing for no other reason then to argue. There is no substance to what you are saying and no one wants to read this crap. Stay away from my posts or I will wipe it again by deleting all my posts. Go start your own thread man your to negative There are 3 spell caster in the game cipher that is closest to ranger in single damage dealing and then there are wizard and druid that are farther behind ranger in single target damage dealing, which is why the difference is 30-50%. (I didn't count in from spell casters priests and chanters who just can't compete in single target damage dealing with any of the other classes). PS. this forum offers ignore user function if you don't like to read what I write, but I will write what I want regardless of what you want and my post aren't aimed to you but other people that are actually interested how game's mechanics actually work. And to all you people out there who are listening to this guy read this again Rangers so gloriously suck for the following reasons: - ANY Character can use the EXCAT same ranged weapon that a ranger can use at the same attack speed (slightly faster for ranger if they picked a certain talent) - Rangers tend to sit on the outskirts of battle and generally avoid getting hit. Spellcasters fit into this category also. - So after taking the above into consideration you have a choice = have a ranger with a ranged weapon or have a spellcaster with a ranged weapon. Its a no brainer, if you picked ranger you will have slightly better accuracy and there are 2-3 talents (MAX) to choose from at level up that are even worth picking, and you don't get 2 of them until nearly the end of the game. If you pick a Cipher/ Wizard/ Druid/ Preist (especially a preist with the arquebus +10 accuracy) you will be able to use your ranged weapon with slightly less effectiveness as the ranger but you will also be able to rain down hell on your enemies with fire, lighting ect and you will be able to stun, heal, charm paralyze .......................................... Rangers suffer from the same debilitating illness as barbarians and chanters........NO USEFULL ABILITIES TO CHOOSE FROM AT LEVEL UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bottom line the rangers abilities on level up are to underpowered. Eg the point of my thread pillars of balancing

The dps a ranger can produce is not that much different from a spellcaster with a ranged weapon who selects relevant ranged talents eg marksman, the + 6 accuracy one, gunner, ect. Plus you can obvisiouly cast spells. Kind of like a multi class ranged fighter/ mage. You would be stupid to pick a ranger Only caster can get even close is cipher and even they are quite far behind against single targets in ranged combat. If you want ranged single target dps character it would currently be stupid to choose any other class than ranger. It should be also noted that rangers are mostly passive in their damage dealing ability where with casters you need actually constantly control them to get most of their damage potential. Ok you can have your ranger who will do probably about no more then 10-15% dps then one of my spell casters using a ranged weapon who can also decimate enemies with a huge variety of spells . I think I've made my point. You where also the person on my last forum who hijacked my post and kept posting negative comments everywhere. May I respectfully request you stay away from my posts please and I will stay away from yours. Thanks. they do about 30-50% more dps than spell casters using ranged weapons.. That's no possible. 30 - 50 % is a pretty wide discrepancy mate which one is it 30 or 50. And like I said please stay away from my posts. You arguing for no other reason then to argue. There is no substance to what you are saying and no one wants to read this crap. Stay away from my posts or I will wipe it again by deleting all my posts. Go start your own thread man your to negative There are 3 spell caster in the game cipher that is closest to ranger in single damage dealing and then there are wizard and druid that are farther behind ranger in single target damage dealing, which is why the difference is 30-50%. (I didn't count in from spell casters priests and chanters who just can't compete in single target damage dealing with any of the other classes). PS. this forum offers ignore user function if you don't like to read what I write, but I will write what I want regardless of what you want and my post aren't aimed to you but other people that are actually interested how game's mechanics actually work. Mate you are stalking me on all my posts and arguing everything I say for no there reason then to piss me off. I had to close down an entire thread before because of you. Go find another thread and harass them. Go away. Your not welcome on my thread. Now I already have to delete this thread because of u again.

The dps a ranger can produce is not that much different from a spellcaster with a ranged weapon who selects relevant ranged talents eg marksman, the + 6 accuracy one, gunner, ect. Plus you can obvisiouly cast spells. Kind of like a multi class ranged fighter/ mage. You would be stupid to pick a ranger Only caster can get even close is cipher and even they are quite far behind against single targets in ranged combat. If you want ranged single target dps character it would currently be stupid to choose any other class than ranger. It should be also noted that rangers are mostly passive in their damage dealing ability where with casters you need actually constantly control them to get most of their damage potential. Ok you can have your ranger who will do probably about no more then 10-15% dps then one of my spell casters using a ranged weapon who can also decimate enemies with a huge variety of spells . I think I've made my point. You where also the person on my last forum who hijacked my post and kept posting negative comments everywhere. May I respectfully request you stay away from my posts please and I will stay away from yours. Thanks. they do about 30-50% more dps than spell casters using ranged weapons.. That's no possible. 30 - 50 % is a pretty wide discrepancy mate which one is it 30 or 50. And like I said please stay away from my posts. You arguing for no other reason then to argue. There is no substance to what you are saying and no one wants to read this crap. Stay away from my posts or I will wipe it again by deleting all my posts. Go start your own thread man your to negative

The dps a ranger can produce is not that much different from a spellcaster with a ranged weapon who selects relevant ranged talents eg marksman, the + 6 accuracy one, gunner, ect. Plus you can obvisiouly cast spells. Kind of like a multi class ranged fighter/ mage. You would be stupid to pick a ranger Only caster can get even close is cipher and even they are quite far behind against single targets in ranged combat. If you want ranged single target dps character it would currently be stupid to choose any other class than ranger. It should be also noted that rangers are mostly passive in their damage dealing ability where with casters you need actually constantly control them to get most of their damage potential. Ok you can have your ranger who will do probably about no more then 10-15% dps then one of my spell casters using a ranged weapon who can also decimate enemies with a huge variety of spells . I think I've made my point. You where also the person on my last forum who hijacked my post and kept posting negative comments everywhere. May I respectfully request you stay away from my posts please and I will stay away from yours. Thanks.

Bingo

Not to mention the damage and tactical advantages the pet provides including their ability to completely heal after every battle - rangers are now one of the best class options in the game in my opinion but that may be biased as rangers have always been one of my favorite classes. Mate what difficulty are you playing on. Your ranger pet is obsolete on path of the dammed. Period. You cannot possibly argue that.

The dps a ranger can produce is not that much different from a spellcaster with a ranged weapon who selects relevant ranged talents eg marksman, the + 6 accuracy one, gunner, ect. Plus you can obvisiouly cast spells. Kind of like a multi class ranged fighter/ mage. You would be stupid to pick a ranger