brindle88
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Posts posted by brindle88
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IMO the best thing from a roleplaying perspective is different weapons being better in different circumstances, which is what PoE has.I wish weapon proficiencies had more levels than picking one talent that makes you proficient with a whole group of weapons, and those weapons weren't so evenly distributed so you have every damage type in every group. I know this is against one of the design goals though.Still, I think there could be some compromise solution - one talent makes you a little better with a group of weapons, and later another talent lets you specialize with just one weapon from this group? Just thinking out loud.
I absolutely hated how you could only specialise in one weapon in the baldurs gate series so I'm happy with what pillars have done here.
The weapons where far more powerful in the BG series so this equaled it out.
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BTW, I do totally understand that it's frustrating trying to calculate DPS in the game right now. It was an ongoing frustration during development that we couldn't report actual base and modified attack and recovery times. If we make a sequel, fixing that is a high priority.
Yeah this is a lot different from 1d6+2 for a short-sword that attacks once per round haha, I've been playing d&d since I was 12 and am a ie veteran and I still have no idea what the hell you guys have done with this system. I would have to spend about 2 days working this out with semi- complex mathematics on a spreadsheet. The way I use to work it out effectively is you would probably be better off with fast low dps wepons early game and slow high dps weapons late game due to increasing damage reduction.
This is not necessarily a bad thing because you are making it hard for players to determine if some weapons are weaker then others, this is good from a role playing perspective.
But this would be very very very confusing for people who haven't played d&d before
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This is only the second game since bg2 that I have actually liked, so I a way I hope obsidian don't make a pillars 2 as it takes up to much of my time playing games like this and the real world is more fun:)
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I've deleted this game and I'm not playing or thinking about it untill white march part 2 comes out.
I want my life back haha
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invisible rogue counting on alpha-backstab... ok, let's see here:
clueless Fighter suddenly gets backstabbed by de-stealthing rogue, combat initiates, let's assume the absolute worst-case scenario that the alpha-stab killed him, so Unbroken activates and Fighter immediately gets back up with 125~ish endurance and boosted stats.
fighter knocks rogue prone. activates Unbending.
fighter lands sundering blow on prone rogue.
fighter keeps rogue prone, while regenerating endurance from his recovery And Unbending.
Unbroken is guaranteed resurrection with better stat boosts than frenzy, and Unbending is capable of staving off death even if the blow would reduce endurance to zero while it lasts.
the only way the fighter loses is if his 1st knockdown misses.
yeah I found them incredibly strong to, check my OP.
I think a case is building for a pvsp combat, untll then we will never no
you can make a case for just about every build.
In PVSP saves would be a big deal, there is still a fair amount of luck to what happens in this game.
I think overall there is no strongest build, only classes that perform different roles. This is what obsidian where after IMO and they succeeded
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I'd assume that detecting stealth would be the same as it works with enemies now. At a certain range the circle fills up yellow and then fills in red after which you are seen.
Another possibility would be to start at the limits of visual range. This way there'd be no using stealth at all. Rogue could still go invisible, but they can only do that once and it has a duration. At the start the Rogue goes invisible and you run around for ten seconds to outlast the invisibility or just take the Rogues alpha strike and fight back.
I still believe that having really high defenses and a self heal would be really useful in PoE PvP. There won't be Priest buffs or Scrolls of Valor or Potions of Eldritch Aim, all you'd have is your base accuracy and whatever you got from your weapons and equipment. Deflection and defenses would be much higher and would result in more misses and grazes.
mate I tried playing your monk, after playing it for a bit came to the conclusion that I just don't enjoy playing monks. I just find there play style really boring and not fun at all. Weapon and item selection is not really optimized for them so that takes the fun out of collecting loot, I do realize you still can use items on them but most of there abilities aren't optimized for this. I also feel as though they fill into the cliché "budda" type monk, in a robe etc. not really a cool class and not as fulfilling as playing a magic user or strong weapon user.
The last point I raised, using weapons and magic is generally why I play these games, monks still do this to a certain degree but not to the full effect. I find them incredibly boring.
Having said that they may be a strong build 1v1 but I would consider rogues and fighters (especially after latest patch) to be stronger.
Anyway im done with this thread. maybe im biased because I find them boring like I said.
By all I need to get back to the real world haha
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game isnt made for pvp. there are no invisible enemies so there is no stealth detection mechanic. using invisibility as the rogue's trump card is plain stupid to be honest since there are no skills made to counter it because enemies dont use it.
every class can just stay stealth indefinably if there is a pvp fight. No characters would start a fight unstealthed and no one would break stealth because they cant find each other leading to a stalemate 100% of the time.
mate we have all acknowledged the game isn't made for pvp read the entire thread.
And where not talking about stealth where talking about the rogue ability shadowing beyond
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It would depend on the geometry of the arena and at what range combat is initiated.
Are you at 10 meters or are you at 2? Are you out of visual range and can activate stealth? Are you in combat mode right at the start which would allow buffing or are you out of combat mode until you visually spot one another?
Again I'd bring up the Monk's walking around, not optimized gear or talents, 122 Fortitude. Go ahead with Rotfingers, petrify whatever spell or affliction you want, overcoming that is not going to be simple. Remember there is no team stacking debuffs before you land the big crowd control ability. If you spend time trying to debuff, which still has to bypass defenses, it leaves you open to an affliction attack or even just a normal attack. Also the Monk has Crucible of Suffering which boosts defenses by ten after the first attack.
A Wizard is godly against the AI but I think you are overstating its potential in PvP. There are not any auto hit Missile strikes like DnD has, everything has to overcome a defense and Wizards have low base accuracy. Plus all defensive buffs need to be cast in combat.
In PoE really high defenses are really powerful, and both Rogues and Wizards have no bonuses to defenses that Monks and Paladins innately have. The Wizard has spells and Arcane Veil but they both take time to set up. No one is going to give the Wizard time to buff, and without buffs the Wizard is vulnerable to attacks and at a big disadvantage trying to penetrate high defenses.
Of course you would not start a fight 2 meteres away from each other.
The rot fingers cause afflictions that are not affected by any defence
I also just noticed that you where the op for the juggernaught monk, hence why you have such a bond with it and are defending it so much.
I have started a new play through today, and am using your build the monk. I have already started and tbh I think you are over rating it. It's human nature to be proud of something you created but you need to listen to reason and open your mind a little bit.
Just like I have by playing your monk:)
And your completely ignoring that contingency I mentioned, it's a level 5 wizard spell called llengraths safeguard, have a look at it. This would give the wizard two guaranteed chances of landing spells at you, once at the opening of combat and once after this contingency has activated, man if you reply back and say that your monk could survive 2 shots of either a petrify or a crushing doom I'm going to stop posting to this cause your just being way to ignorant
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It would depend on the geometry of the arena and at what range combat is initiated.
Are you at 10 meters or are you at 2? Are you out of visual range and can activate stealth? Are you in combat mode right at the start which would allow buffing or are you out of combat mode until you visually spot one another?
Again I'd bring up the Monk's walking around, not optimized gear or talents, 122 Fortitude. Go ahead with Rotfingers, petrify whatever spell or affliction you want, overcoming that is not going to be simple. Remember there is no team stacking debuffs before you land the big crowd control ability. If you spend time trying to debuff, which still has to bypass defenses, it leaves you open to an affliction attack or even just a normal attack. Also the Monk has Crucible of Suffering which boosts defenses by ten after the first attack.
A Wizard is godly against the AI but I think you are overstating its potential in PvP. There are not any auto hit Missile strikes like DnD has, everything has to overcome a defense and Wizards have low base accuracy. Plus all defensive buffs need to be cast in combat.
In PoE really high defenses are really powerful, and both Rogues and Wizards have no bonuses to defenses that Monks and Paladins innately have. The Wizard has spells and Arcane Veil but they both take time to set up. No one is going to give the Wizard time to buff, and without buffs the Wizard is vulnerable to attacks and at a big disadvantage trying to penetrate high defenses.
Of course you would not start a fight 2 meteres away from each other.
The rot fingers cause afflictions that are not affected by any defence
I also just noticed that you where the op for the juggernaught monk, hence why you have such a bond with it and are defending it so much.
I have started a new play through today, and am using your build the monk. I have already started and tbh I think you are over rating it. It's human nature to be proud of something you created but you need to listen to reason and open your mind a little bit.
Just like I have by playing your monk:)
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When it comes to monk vs. wizard I also would bet on wizard.
I agree, actually I'm 99% certain.
So I think it's fair to say that in terms of most overpowered build 1 vs 1
A wizard will beat the juaggernaught monk.
A wizard will be able to beat all classes except a rogue who can activate invisibility, there fore evading spells and being able to position to be able to take the wizard down in melee.
This will make the rogue then winner in a all vs all class combat.
The wizard may........be able to defeat the rogue with that contingency that activates when it reaches below 50% endurance and knocks everyone prone around it. Unfortunately at the moment we can't try this out as the game won't allow pvp combat.
The contingencies and spell triggers really are what differentiates wizards from all other classes in traditional d&d and what makes them so powerful. Pillars hasn't really touched on this matter yet.
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When it comes to monk vs. wizard I also would bet on wizard.
I agree, actually I'm 99% certain.
So I think it's fair to say that in terms of most overpowered build 1 vs 1
A wizard will beat the juaggernaught monk.
A wizard will be able to beat all classes except a rogue who can activate invisibility, there fore evading spells and being able to position to be able to take the wizard down in melee.
This will make the rogue then winner in a all vs all class combat.
The wizard may........be able to defeat the rogue with that contingency that activates when it reaches below 50% endurance and knocks everyone prone around it. Unfortunately at the moment we can't try this out as the game won't allow pvp combat.
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I see 60-70 damage per hit with 95 on a crit, all with deathblows active. With higher DR than Thaos the Monk would be taking less damage, more like 50-60 per hit, 85 on a crit. To get deathblows or even to just get sneak attack bonus you need to get past either a 122 fortitude or a 94 reflex both of which are higher than the Rogues accuracy.
Also the Rogue in the screen shots is fully buffed. I'd assume that PvP would be no potions, scrolls, summons, food, resting bonus or prostitutes.
There won't be any summons to set up flanking or to take the hits. The Monk will be striking faster with his fists than you will be with sabres and will have near double the endurance.
All of this is not considering the monk summoning the Twins or just hitting you once with a Force of Anguish that puts you prone for ten seconds.
Even spotting you 200 points of damage to start the fight the Monk just needs one action to summon two 280 endurance monsters that will surround, flank and beat on the Rogue.
I don't think it will be as one sided as you seem to imagine it.
I brought up the Paladin into the PvP discussion based on the strength of the heals from LoH. Instead of just needing to overcome his 220 or so endurance you also have two 200+ heals. The Paladin would effectively have up to 600 endurance. Factor in his Sacred Immolation burning and he can stand there healing himself while you burn.
The DEATHBLOWS bill be activated straight away with the rot finger gloves as per boerer suggestion, then 4 shots all DEATHBLOWS activated then once you summon twins who's to say I simply Say I just run of screen untill they disappear. Thaos obvisouly would have high fort, will and I can't remember the last time my rogue never landed a blinding strike or it's equivalent as they have an increased accuracy and the rogue will have the highest accuracy in the game so this will negate your monks defences. The affliction strikes from rogues ALLWAYS land. And I have a compete immunty button with invis to use at any time.
I also have the option of punishing you with a firearm from range adding crippling afflictions that willl slow your move speed.
There are more options there but I'm still confident I would kill you instantly as per the op did to thaos. He only landed one crit remember, crits also increase duration of afflictions by 50%, if I landed a crit with the opening fearsome strike or blind you dead. You are also over looking blind, this will basically disable you from being able to hit me, just like my invis
One thing we have missed is that your monk would more then likely be bettered by a wizard in one on one combat. Your monk does not have invisibility, therefore no ability to to get up close to the wizard and inniate melee without copping a high level spell first. You would be petrified then chain cast with alacrity fireballs (fast speed cast spell) plus the alacrity. This is something the rogue can avoid you can't
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I see 60-70 damage per hit with 95 on a crit, all with deathblows active. With higher DR than Thaos the Monk would be taking less damage, more like 50-60 per hit, 85 on a crit. To get deathblows or even to just get sneak attack bonus you need to get past either a 122 fortitude or a 94 reflex both of which are higher than the Rogues accuracy.
Also the Rogue in the screen shots is fully buffed. I'd assume that PvP would be no potions, scrolls, summons, food, resting bonus or prostitutes.
There won't be any summons to set up flanking or to take the hits. The Monk will be striking faster with his fists than you will be with sabres and will have near double the endurance.
All of this is not considering the monk summoning the Twins or just hitting you once with a Force of Anguish that puts you prone for ten seconds.
Even spotting you 200 points of damage to start the fight the Monk just needs one action to summon two 280 endurance monsters that will surround, flank and beat on the Rogue.
I don't think it will be as one sided as you seem to imagine it.
I brought up the Paladin into the PvP discussion based on the strength of the heals from LoH. Instead of just needing to overcome his 220 or so endurance you also have two 200+ heals. The Paladin would effectively have up to 600 endurance. Factor in his Sacred Immolation burning and he can stand there healing himself while you burn.
The DEATHBLOWS bill be activated straight away with the rot finger gloves as per boerer suggestion, then 4 shots all DEATHBLOWS activated then once you summon twins who's to say I simply Say I just run of screen untill they disappear. Thaos obvisouly would have high fort, will and I can't remember the last time my rogue never landed a blinding strike or it's equivalent as they have an increased accuracy and the rogue will have the highest accuracy in the game so this will negate your monks defences. The affliction strikes from rogues ALLWAYS land. And I have a compete immunty button with invis to use at any time.
I also have the option of punishing you with a firearm from range adding crippling afflictions that willl slow your move speed.
There are more options there but I'm still confident I would kill you instantly as per the op did to thaos. He only landed one crit remember, crits also increase duration of afflictions by 50%, if I landed a crit with the opening fearsome strike or blind you dead. You are also over looking blind, this will basically disable you from being able to hit me, just like my invis
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Also a PvP build would be different. With a superb large shield and W&S talent I'd be up to 59+16+12+6 = 93 deflection w/o modality, 101 with it set to deflection. You would not be critting much. Also the damage from the Sabres is going to have an issue getting past the 27 slash DR and then the 322 endurance.
The high defenses of the Monk will cause issues trying to land the afflictions in the first place. The Monks Fortitude and Reflex are both higher than the Rogues accuracy. On the flipside the Monk will have no problem hitting, damaging or applying a status effect on the Rogue whose defenses are lower than the Monk's accuracy.
A Paladin with a decent Might score at level 13 would probably give a Rogue all they wanted in a fight due to Sacred Immolation and a few LoH. Throw in a couple FoD crits with a stunning or overbearing weapon and the Rogue is in a lot of trouble.
I'm all for listening to the monk but dude we have to leave the paladin out of this. It does not belong on this thread.
Look at the screen shot on this link when the op 4 shoted thaos.https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/79744-tcs-rogue-dw-sabre-4-shot-thaos-1-bs-1-cs/
He was hitting thaos for around 70 without crits each time and thaos would have had a high damage reduction for slash, at least 20 I'm guessing so your 27 dr will Definately be getting punished. Let's assume I do open with invisibility, this guarantees me the fist 4 shots on the monk so it will be fearsome strike which has enabled 2 afflictions then blinding strike with DEATHBLOWS, THEN you will be able to hit me. I've just dealt you a minimum of 140 damage (assuming I didn't crit you) and remember rogues automatically gain an extra 20% of hits converted to crits no matter what due to talent selections, this combined with high perception and other accuracy buffs I think will crit the monk even with a high deflection about 30% of the time. So it's more then likely before you can even get a chance to hit me you :
- are blind
- crippled
- weakened
- hobbled
- taken a minimum of 200 damage (assuming I critted once)
Man seriously, that's a frickin huge handicap I just dealt you. You are underestimating invisibility
Sorry I ****ed up. The op in that post four shotted thaos for 298 damage and only one landed a crit, have a look.
The rogue will flog the monk
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Also a PvP build would be different. With a superb large shield and W&S talent I'd be up to 59+16+12+6 = 93 deflection w/o modality, 101 with it set to deflection. You would not be critting much. Also the damage from the Sabres is going to have an issue getting past the 27 slash DR and then the 322 endurance.
The high defenses of the Monk will cause issues trying to land the afflictions in the first place. The Monks Fortitude and Reflex are both higher than the Rogues accuracy. On the flipside the Monk will have no problem hitting, damaging or applying a status effect on the Rogue whose defenses are lower than the Monk's accuracy.
A Paladin with a decent Might score at level 13 would probably give a Rogue all they wanted in a fight due to Sacred Immolation and a few LoH. Throw in a couple FoD crits with a stunning or overbearing weapon and the Rogue is in a lot of trouble.
I'm all for listening to the monk but dude we have to leave the paladin out of this. It does not belong on this thread.
Look at the screen shot on this link when the op 4 shoted thaos.https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/79744-tcs-rogue-dw-sabre-4-shot-thaos-1-bs-1-cs/
He was hitting thaos for around 70 without crits each time and thaos would have had a high damage reduction for slash, at least 20 I'm guessing so your 27 dr will Definately be getting punished. Let's assume I do open with invisibility, this guarantees me the fist 4 shots on the monk so it will be fearsome strike which has enabled 2 afflictions then blinding strike with DEATHBLOWS, THEN you will be able to hit me. I've just dealt you a minimum of 140 damage (assuming I didn't crit you) and remember rogues automatically gain an extra 20% of hits converted to crits no matter what due to talent selections, this combined with high perception and other accuracy buffs I think will crit the monk even with a high deflection about 30% of the time. So it's more then likely before you can even get a chance to hit me you :
- are blind
- crippled
- weakened
- hobbled
- taken a minimum of 200 damage (assuming I critted once)
Man seriously, that's a frickin huge handicap I just dealt you. You are underestimating invisibility
And then after you do hit me after I have done all this to you I will still have DEATHBLOWS activated, you will be dead in 1 more hit, 2 max,
Seriously have a good think about this and look at that screen shot. The rogue will win guaranteed
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Also a PvP build would be different. With a superb large shield and W&S talent I'd be up to 59+16+12+6 = 93 deflection w/o modality, 101 with it set to deflection. You would not be critting much. Also the damage from the Sabres is going to have an issue getting past the 27 slash DR and then the 322 endurance.
The high defenses of the Monk will cause issues trying to land the afflictions in the first place. The Monks Fortitude and Reflex are both higher than the Rogues accuracy. On the flipside the Monk will have no problem hitting, damaging or applying a status effect on the Rogue whose defenses are lower than the Monk's accuracy.
A Paladin with a decent Might score at level 13 would probably give a Rogue all they wanted in a fight due to Sacred Immolation and a few LoH. Throw in a couple FoD crits with a stunning or overbearing weapon and the Rogue is in a lot of trouble.
I'm all for listening to the monk but dude we have to leave the paladin out of this. It does not belong on this thread.
Look at the screen shot on this link when the op 4 shoted thaos.
https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/79744-tcs-rogue-dw-sabre-4-shot-thaos-1-bs-1-cs/
He was hitting thaos for around 70 without crits each time and thaos would have had a high damage reduction for slash, at least 20 I'm guessing so your 27 dr will Definately be getting punished. Let's assume I do open with invisibility, this guarantees me the fist 4 shots on the monk so it will be fearsome strike which has enabled 2 afflictions then blinding strike with DEATHBLOWS, THEN you will be able to hit me. I've just dealt you a minimum of 140 damage (assuming I didn't crit you) and remember rogues automatically gain an extra 20% of hits converted to crits no matter what due to talent selections, this combined with high perception and other accuracy buffs I think will crit the monk even with a high deflection about 30% of the time. So it's more then likely before you can even get a chance to hit me you :
- are blind
- crippled
- weakened
- hobbled
- taken a minimum of 200 damage (assuming I critted once)
Man seriously, that's a frickin huge handicap I just dealt you. You are underestimating invisibility
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Ok all. We have some good discussion here and It has helped me a lot but we seem to all be interpreting my OP Differently.
1. Some people are interpreting what the most overpowered build post patch 2.00 is as an individual, e.g. say for example one class vs. another in a 1 on 1 fight. e.g. Rogue vs. Monk
2. Others are interpreting my OP as What is the most overpowered build vs. the Mobs/ Bad Guys/ General monsters etc.
So lets answer this in these terms
The Answer to 2. seems to be a wizard? Do we all agree on this? I am tied between a wizard and a cipher simply because Amplified Wave is the only GOD LIKE ability in this game. The Wizard has no spell more powerful then amplified wave but overall the wizards repertoire of spells to choose from may be more powerful. The cipher also has the spells time parasite and mind plague. All three of these spells are capable of wrecking just about anything I encountered in POTD especially the wave. Also keep in mind time parasite and mind plague jump to enemies, they are not restricted to a circle of effect like most of the wizards powerful spells eg petrify. Im going with Cipher, the Wave IMO is just to powerful to ignore.
In Regards to 1. Most Powerful build class vs class: I think Rogue, the Rogue can activate Invisibility Instantly and is the only class capable of doing this. Invisibility will allow the Rogue to be IMMUNE to spells and attacks and allow the rogue to position itself to lock down its target with a series of critical hits, sneak attacks and Deathblows. Someone show me how to avoid this???????????? You cant, once a rogue does that your fckd.
I'd say the Wizard is way ahead of the Cipher. Amplified wave is great BUT you only get to cast one of them and then you need to make a few normal attacks to regenerate focus. Time Parasite is great in that it speeds up your attacks but after using it you are out of focus and need to attack a few times to regenerate focus. A Wizard can bang out an Alacrity, get a 50% speed increase and then bang out four level seven spells and the follow up with four level six, five, four and so on. Nothing will survive being on the receiving end of a Wizard's full unloading of its Grimoire. The only defense is to kill the Wizard. Plus the Wizard can do this in every single battle if they are willing to back track or expend camping supplies.
With the Rogue vs Monk deathmatch I'd be betting on the Monk
Using my Juggernaut (with equipment but no paladin auras, buffs, food or rest bonuses) I have 322 Endurance, 27 slash DR, 25 pierce DR and 18 crush DR (Armor is merely exceptional, have not upgraded to Superb), Fortitude is 122, Reflex is 94, Will is 76, all of which get increased by 10 from Crucible of Suffering which kicks in after the first status attack. A 64 deflection and an 89 accuracy. Fists are fast speed, 3 DR bypass and are listed as 26 -33 damage.
You get first hit with +50% sneak attack, and a blind strike vs
Will. Reflex. Even if you get past the defense it is only a-20-25 debuff to accuracy and deflection. Its not as if your deflection is high enough to cause misses against an 89 accuracy even if I'm blind.Even with a crit how hard is the hit? 100, 150 max? Factor in DR and it is probably less than 100. The point being that I am still alive and now have 10 wounds to spend. I use eight to summon the Twins who have like 280 endurance and the same DR as I do. Now it is three on one and the twins are not blinded and you're out of blinding strikes. Even without the Twins Torment's Reach spam is a full attack at +50% crush, how many of those can your Rogue take?
If I took Force of Anguish, for two wounds I'd get a ten+ second prone.
The fight would be like the early days of MMA where wrestlers and ground and pound were the kings. The Monk is the wrestler and the Rogue would be the Tae Kwan Do master.
this is the build that would beat the monk
https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/79744-tcs-rogue-dw-sabre-4-shot-thaos-1-bs-1-cs/
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When I did some 1:1 fights where I send one of my party members against a single powerful foe my monk was always best. But I have to say that my rougue didn't have invisibility or an overbearing/stunning weapon. I had the classic dual wielding sabre setup which was very powerful regarding dps. If the invisible rogue would cause a crit with prone or stun then the monk would be in trouble. But a crit is not ensured and neither is the disabling effect that also has to overcome defenses. Just dual wielding with annihilating sabres would not be enough in most cases I think. Disabling is the key because if you don't do it, the monk will prone you for a long time. I also think that a monk with durgan refined speed weapons would be more powerful than with fists - although I love fighting with fists. For most of the game they are great. But after you get Durgan Steel I think you should switch to weapons.
nightshroud on the rogue may be the best weapon for this
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Ok all. We have some good discussion here and It has helped me a lot but we seem to all be interpreting my OP Differently.
1. Some people are interpreting what the most overpowered build post patch 2.00 is as an individual, e.g. say for example one class vs. another in a 1 on 1 fight. e.g. Rogue vs. Monk
2. Others are interpreting my OP as What is the most overpowered build vs. the Mobs/ Bad Guys/ General monsters etc.
So lets answer this in these terms
The Answer to 2. seems to be a wizard? Do we all agree on this? I am tied between a wizard and a cipher simply because Amplified Wave is the only GOD LIKE ability in this game. The Wizard has no spell more powerful then amplified wave but overall the wizards repertoire of spells to choose from may be more powerful. The cipher also has the spells time parasite and mind plague. All three of these spells are capable of wrecking just about anything I encountered in POTD especially the wave. Also keep in mind time parasite and mind plague jump to enemies, they are not restricted to a circle of effect like most of the wizards powerful spells eg petrify. Im going with Cipher, the Wave IMO is just to powerful to ignore.
In Regards to 1. Most Powerful build class vs class: I think Rogue, the Rogue can activate Invisibility Instantly and is the only class capable of doing this. Invisibility will allow the Rogue to be IMMUNE to spells and attacks and allow the rogue to position itself to lock down its target with a series of critical hits, sneak attacks and Deathblows. Someone show me how to avoid this???????????? You cant, once a rogue does that your fckd.
I'd say the Wizard is way ahead of the Cipher. Amplified wave is great BUT you only get to cast one of them and then you need to make a few normal attacks to regenerate focus. Time Parasite is great in that it speeds up your attacks but after using it you are out of focus and need to attack a few times to regenerate focus. A Wizard can bang out an Alacrity, get a 50% speed increase and then bang out four level seven spells and the follow up with four level six, five, four and so on. Nothing will survive being on the receiving end of a Wizard's full unloading of its Grimoire. The only defense is to kill the Wizard. Plus the Wizard can do this in every single battle if they are willing to back track or expend camping supplies.
With the Rogue vs Monk deathmatch I'd be betting on the Monk
Using my Juggernaut (with equipment but no paladin auras, buffs, food or rest bonuses) I have 322 Endurance, 27 slash DR, 25 pierce DR and 18 crush DR (Armor is merely exceptional, have not upgraded to Superb), Fortitude is 122, Reflex is 94, Will is 76, all of which get increased by 10 from Crucible of Suffering which kicks in after the first status attack. A 64 deflection and an 89 accuracy. Fists are fast speed, 3 DR bypass and are listed as 26 -33 damage.
You get first hit with +50% sneak attack, and a blind strike vs
Will. Reflex. Even if you get past the defense it is only a-20-25 debuff to accuracy and deflection. Its not as if your deflection is high enough to cause misses against an 89 accuracy even if I'm blind.Even with a crit how hard is the hit? 100, 150 max? Factor in DR and it is probably less than 100. The point being that I am still alive and now have 10 wounds to spend. I use eight to summon the Twins who have like 280 endurance and the same DR as I do. Now it is three on one and the twins are not blinded and you're out of blinding strikes. Even without the Twins Torment's Reach spam is a full attack at +50% crush, how many of those can your Rogue take?
If I took Force of Anguish, for two wounds I'd get a ten+ second prone.
The fight would be like the early days of MMA where wrestlers and ground and pound were the kings. The Monk is the wrestler and the Rogue would be the Tae Kwan Do master.
I wouldn't blinding strike first I would fearsome strike, therefore inflicting 2 afflictions instantly, then blinding strike (including deathblows), so you are blind, crippled, weakened and hobbled in 2 shots. I would still have invis up my sleeve aswell remember as a monk is not a caster so I would not activate it at the start of combat to avoid spells. if I critted on any of these 2 strikes you would not probably die, if I critted on both you would definitely die , If you did manage to survive you definatley would not be in a position to win
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Ok all. We have some good discussion here and It has helped me a lot but we seem to all be interpreting my OP Differently.
1. Some people are interpreting what the most overpowered build post patch 2.00 is as an individual, e.g. say for example one class vs. another in a 1 on 1 fight. e.g. Rogue vs. Monk
2. Others are interpreting my OP as What is the most overpowered build vs. the Mobs/ Bad Guys/ General monsters etc.
So lets answer this in these terms
The Answer to 2. seems to be a wizard? Do we all agree on this? I am tied between a wizard and a cipher simply because Amplified Wave is the only GOD LIKE ability in this game. The Wizard has no spell more powerful then amplified wave but overall the wizards repertoire of spells to choose from may be more powerful. The cipher also has the spells time parasite and mind plague. All three of these spells are capable of wrecking just about anything I encountered in POTD especially the wave. Also keep in mind time parasite and mind plague jump to enemies, they are not restricted to a circle of effect like most of the wizards powerful spells eg petrify. Im going with Cipher, the Wave IMO is just to powerful to ignore.
In Regards to 1. Most Powerful build class vs class: I think Rogue, the Rogue can activate Invisibility Instantly and is the only class capable of doing this. Invisibility will allow the Rogue to be IMMUNE to spells and attacks and allow the rogue to position itself to lock down its target with a series of critical hits, sneak attacks and Deathblows. Someone show me how to avoid this???????????? You cant, once a rogue does that your fckd.
I'd say the Wizard is way ahead of the Cipher. Amplified wave is great BUT you only get to cast one of them and then you need to make a few normal attacks to regenerate focus. Time Parasite is great in that it speeds up your attacks but after using it you are out of focus and need to attack a few times to regenerate focus. A Wizard can bang out an Alacrity, get a 50% speed increase and then bang out four level seven spells and the follow up with four level six, five, four and so on. Nothing will survive being on the receiving end of a Wizard's full unloading of its Grimoire. The only defense is to kill the Wizard. Plus the Wizard can do this in every single battle if they are willing to back track or expend camping supplies.
With the Rogue vs Monk deathmatch I'd be betting on the Monk
Using my Juggernaut (with equipment but no paladin auras, buffs, food or rest bonuses) I have 322 Endurance, 27 slash DR, 25 pierce DR and 18 crush DR (Armor is merely exceptional, have not upgraded to Superb), Fortitude is 122, Reflex is 94, Will is 76, all of which get increased by 10 from Crucible of Suffering which kicks in after the first status attack. A 64 deflection and an 89 accuracy. Fists are fast speed, 3 DR bypass and are listed as 26 -33 damage.
You get first hit with +50% sneak attack, and a blind strike vs
Will. Reflex. Even if you get past the defense it is only a-20-25 debuff to accuracy and deflection. Its not as if your deflection is high enough to cause misses against an 89 accuracy even if I'm blind.Even with a crit how hard is the hit? 100, 150 max? Factor in DR and it is probably less than 100. The point being that I am still alive and now have 10 wounds to spend. I use eight to summon the Twins who have like 280 endurance and the same DR as I do. Now it is three on one and the twins are not blinded and you're out of blinding strikes. Even without the Twins Torment's Reach spam is a full attack at +50% crush, how many of those can your Rogue take?
If I took Force of Anguish, for two wounds I'd get a ten+ second prone.
The fight would be like the early days of MMA where wrestlers and ground and pound were the kings. The Monk is the wrestler and the Rogue would be the Tae Kwan Do master.
I wouldn't blinding strike first I would fearsome strike, therefore inflicting 2 afflictions instantly, then blinding strike (including deathblows), so you are blind, crippled, weakened and hobbled in 2 shots. I would still have invis up my sleeve aswell remember as a monk is not a caster so I would not activate it at the start of combat to avoid spells. if I critted on any of these 2 strikes you would not probably die, if I critted on both you would definitely die , If you did manage to survive you definatley would not be in a position to win
http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Fearsome_Strike
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Ok all. We have some good discussion here and It has helped me a lot but we seem to all be interpreting my OP Differently.
1. Some people are interpreting what the most overpowered build post patch 2.00 is as an individual, e.g. say for example one class vs. another in a 1 on 1 fight. e.g. Rogue vs. Monk
2. Others are interpreting my OP as What is the most overpowered build vs. the Mobs/ Bad Guys/ General monsters etc.
So lets answer this in these terms
The Answer to 2. seems to be a wizard? Do we all agree on this? I am tied between a wizard and a cipher simply because Amplified Wave is the only GOD LIKE ability in this game. The Wizard has no spell more powerful then amplified wave but overall the wizards repertoire of spells to choose from may be more powerful. The cipher also has the spells time parasite and mind plague. All three of these spells are capable of wrecking just about anything I encountered in POTD especially the wave. Also keep in mind time parasite and mind plague jump to enemies, they are not restricted to a circle of effect like most of the wizards powerful spells eg petrify. Im going with Cipher, the Wave IMO is just to powerful to ignore.
In Regards to 1. Most Powerful build class vs class: I think Rogue, the Rogue can activate Invisibility Instantly and is the only class capable of doing this. Invisibility will allow the Rogue to be IMMUNE to spells and attacks and allow the rogue to position itself to lock down its target with a series of critical hits, sneak attacks and Deathblows. Someone show me how to avoid this???????????? You cant, once a rogue does that your fckd.
BTW i only found these 3 spells the cipher has to be the ones of any real use, so basically if you compare a cipher to a wizard the wizard is more versatile but I think these three spells amplified wave, time parasite and mind plague are more powerful then anything the wizard has, perhaps apart from that cauncahaults hammer the wizard gets a craighold bluff but this only targets one person. Come to think of it if the wizard could fire this spell of at the rogue that could make the wizard the most powerful build in one on one also. It would be hard for the wizard to do it though because the rogue would activate invisibility as soon as engaged started and then I think the wizard would be dead as soon as it was engaged in melee. This is where wizards need contingencies and spell triggers
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Okay - invisibilty together with some stunning or overbearing effect on your weapon is really dangerous. But keep in mind that this is restricted by uses per rest. If you just look at one encounter after you've rested than you're probably right. Would be tun to habe some sort of PvP arena to try this out. It's a pity that pausing will not work in this case.
Invisibility for the rogue is a bizarre ability. It can be used to unbelievable effectiveness in this 1 vs 1 situation, the name of it should be changed from invisibility to immunity. I personally wouldn't go with stunning or overbearing weapons I would go with a annihilation. I don't think any other build could survive successive rogue afflictions like blinding strike, crippling strike (that all stack concurrent damage bonuses eg 25% for the affliction, 50% for sneak attack, 100% for deathblows, 30% merciless hand, 10% dungeon delver, 50% annihilation.
You can 2 shot most high powered bosses with this build with the annihilating sabres
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Ok all. We have some good discussion here and It has helped me a lot but we seem to all be interpreting my OP Differently.
1. Some people are interpreting what the most overpowered build post patch 2.00 is as an individual, e.g. say for example one class vs. another in a 1 on 1 fight. e.g. Rogue vs. Monk
2. Others are interpreting my OP as What is the most overpowered build vs. the Mobs/ Bad Guys/ General monsters etc.
So lets answer this in these terms
The Answer to 2. seems to be a wizard? Do we all agree on this? I am tied between a wizard and a cipher simply because Amplified Wave is the only GOD LIKE ability in this game. The Wizard has no spell more powerful then amplified wave but overall the wizards repertoire of spells to choose from may be more powerful. The cipher also has the spells time parasite and mind plague. All three of these spells are capable of wrecking just about anything I encountered in POTD especially the wave. Also keep in mind time parasite and mind plague jump to enemies, they are not restricted to a circle of effect like most of the wizards powerful spells eg petrify. Im going with Cipher, the Wave IMO is just to powerful to ignore.
In Regards to 1. Most Powerful build class vs class: I think Rogue, the Rogue can activate Invisibility Instantly and is the only class capable of doing this. Invisibility will allow the Rogue to be IMMUNE to spells and attacks and allow the rogue to position itself to lock down its target with a series of critical hits, sneak attacks and Deathblows. Someone show me how to avoid this???????????? You cant, once a rogue does that your fckd.
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I can't take anyone's opinion seriously who advocates taking Defender. It makes you easier to be hit. There is not a build out there for a Fighter that gets better when it gets hit.
Pretty much anything a Fighter can do, a Monk will do better. Give them the same equipment and the Monk will be faster and do more damage, plus have more health, better CC, longer knockdowns and AoE attacks, not to mention a twin summon that are absolute monsters.
Sacred Immolation hits a big area as hard as a two handed weapon, lasts for 30+ seconds and heals in the same huge area. This ability gained at level 13 will make your Paladin do more damage than your Fighter. At the same level 13 your Fighter can take Sundering Blows which does less damage than the first level Flames of Devotion that a Paladin gets. Your Fighter will always hit one target harder than your Paladin, but your Paladin will also be burning that one target plus anyone else in the area for damage equivalent to a two handed weapon.
Prior to getting Sacred Immolation a Paladin will bring much much more to the team than a Fighter possibly can. If people could change Eder's class to anything besides Fighter they would. If you want to help the team while being 'tanky' you get a Paladin or Chanter, if you want to do damage and be durable you'd make a Monk or a tanky shield Rogue. With the new AI you can't even claim less micro as a reason for going Fighter
The huge intellect Paladin you guy's are advocating has longer duration heals, longer duration buffs and bigger auras. No one is saying dump intellect but keeping it at base 10 is a viable build with tradeoffs.
Once your aura is big enough to cover what you want it to cover any extra intellect is wasted. You don't need to cover anyone who stays six meters away from the battle, have them come closer and the smaller aura can include them as well. Maybe you need to make something other than wood elves.
The buffs like reinforcing exhortation have a long duration at base, like 25 seconds or something. Increasing that to 40 seconds is nice but not needed.
Lay on hands heals for a huge amount over time, Given a choice I'd rather have a high Might for more healing over a shorter period rather than less healing over a longer period.
I'm guessing that your paladin builds are hatchet & shield, 3 dex aura bots, maybe 3 perception as well. Sure enough that build can't damage or hit enemies. A Paladin with balanced stats using a two hander on PotD has good enough defenses, good enough heals and does good enough damage. My PotD Kind Wayfarer with Tidefall is leading my team with damage done and for biggest hit.
dude seriously, you obviously like paladins and so do I but a paladin does not do more dps then a fighter. Im not replying anymore to this post,
People if you are reading it, trust me, a paladin will not do more dps then a fighter
Pillars of balancing
in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)
Posted
After patch 2.00 with perception increasing accuracy, IMO you are better of concentrating on weapons that afflict afflictions on crits. Eg increasing perception as much as possible.
Again, this adds a hole new spin on things lol