brindle88

We are saying barbs are inferior to all other melee classes, including paladins. Of course you can give the barb the weapon and he can attack stuff.

Great question. I assumed from the get-go that it was intended, but for all I know it might as well be a bug. I'll raise it shortly so QA can have a look. EDIT: ICYMI I don't reckon that would be a bug, converting 50+ % of your hits to crits would fit into the pillars op phenomenon. I think they would have done this intentionally

Yeah of course, as you have clarified, you can give your barb a weapon and he may or may not die when he enters melee combat. The point we are making is that they are overall probably the weakest class and you have stated the AOE affliction build needs a rethink after the latest patch, man seriously it never worked in the first place on POTD, even before the patch. The accuracy was to low and the enemies deflection was to high to crit and land these afflictions. As I have said before, on POTD, even with my rogue maxed to the absolute max with the highest accuracy with reckless assault I could not consistently land crits often enough to apply these afflictions with those weapons to one single enemy that was half a challenge to kill that often. To say the barb could do this with its inferior accuracy and further reduced with the carnage is complete BS. I no I tested it.

Gairnulf If you have solod POTD with multiple characters, in your option, what is the most over powered build post patch 2.03 (now)?

not even the high DR fights, I think it flatlines on the low DR Fights

The barbs 2 strong points : 1. The large health pool 2. The carnage ability The barbs weak points: 1. Just about every possible thing that is relevant in this game apart from the above The 2 strong points I found weren't relevant anyway as I didn't have enough stats to allocate to leave my constitution high because I needed those stats elsewhere because the barb is a melee character and intelligence is also important for the barb. Carnage will apply secondary minimal damage at a reduced accuracy, but that's about it. You can't apply afflictions to mobs with affliction applying weapons on POTD consistently enough with carnage to make that build relevant, and if you did, you would basically need your entire party built around buffing the barb to make it even half viable. I would rather have my casters doing damage and stunning/ petrifying not babysitting at useless class

the primary target will hit with full accuracy but every other target affected by the carnage ability will be hit with -10 accuracy

Well you have taken that comparison to a whole new level. My comparisons where based on a party of 5-6 playing POTD with 1 barb included in the party, I cannot possibly imagine playing a Barb solo on POTD. I wouldn't have attempted it because as I said in my analysis I was able to compare a late level barb to a late level fighter or rogue via hire mercanaieries and building them up to level 13. The comparisons where dismal at best for reasons I described in my detailed analysis. Your post will be critised by the carnage lovers who think they can apply afflictions with the carnage ability (reduced 10 acc with carnage and a barbarian with a lower accuracy then fighters and rogues anyway) with affliction applying weapons eg prone, stun ect..................this may work on groups of xantrips but I cant make it work on much else.

Repulsing seal would seriously whoop classes that don't max dex and perc, very interesting, though almost all melee classes would max these two apart from barbs and monks Rogues completely max dex and perc Fighters don't quite max dex and perc but they pump them a bit

Yeah I just checked repulsing seal, and you are on to something, but it targets reflex, and the rogue has the highest reflex in the game and also due to maxing dex and perception will give another 36 reflex on top of that, so maybe hard for it to land on the rogue. The rogues lowest defences are actually deflection and will, but Definately not reflex

yeah and shadowing beyond puts a whole new spin on things because it is the only ability in the game that grants absolute immunity to everything, im surprised the wizard doesn't have a similar spell lengarths safeguard (the wizard contingency ) may save the wizard though................and the wizard may win.............hahaha

the blind affliction is vs reflex btw not deflection...............go have a look.............. and it can land on a graze...........ah maybe rogue will win.............

yeah the rogue would have to find a way to counter the hardened veil

I though it was crap to until I had a good look at it, it afflicts blind on a hit and crit not just a crit, I think its overpowered

Guys forget about the attack speed BS lets get back to topic. Ive experimented again with what I think I the most overpowered build 1vs1 and im certain its Rogue. I had a good look at the rogue vs fighter vs Jugg monk and wizard and I tested stuff (as much as I could) I couldn't find a defense from any other class that beat this opening combination from the rogue 1. The Rogue opens straight away with shadowing beyond, this does 2 things grants the rogue IMMUNITY TO SPELLS FROM THE WIZARD and GUARANTEES THE ROGUE first strike in melee combat at either a sneak attack or backstab (50% or 100%) 2. This fist strike will be blinding strike, guys, go into the game, go have a look at what the blinding affliction does to someone: it reduces accuracy by 25 and deflection by 20. The reduced 20 deflection should ensure that you will continue to land crits and deathblows. Guys I cant beat this on another class combination. It is straight up guaranteed first hit and your blinded then you will be critted and death blowed until death. Hands down winner

if you look at the Bar chart sawyer posted, it clearly shows a recover time and then an armor recovery time, can someone please clarify in PLAIN ENGLISH if armored grace affects the ENTIRE RECOVEREY TIME or just the RECOVERY TIME THAT IS ADDED ON BY THE ARMOR. You have stated in your above post that if you have the talent armored grace then this will not affect your recovery if you are wearing no armor. Though this may be so, but it may also be the case that if you are wearing armot the -20% from armored grace may EFFECT THE ENTIRE RECOVERY TIME.

Baldurs Gate 1 was released Dec 1998 Baldurs Gate 2 was released Sep 2000 So maybe we might not be waiting to long for POE2, 18 months from now if where lucky.................. Keep in mind BG1 didn't have two expansions like POE1 has so I think it will be longer then 18 months.

Would you install if leaving it in your library uninstalled prompted your PC to need a save V BSOD DC 20? hey mate we need help on anther thread in regards to attack speed, recovery speed, can you give us a hand https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/82781-most-overpowered-builds-post-patch-202/page-8?do=findComment&comment=1745675

Yup, you're right. I just tested it. I had previously thought the only difference between dexterity and attack speed was that the latter didn't affect reload speed and armor penalty. While this doesn't change about what I think about the monk vs. fighter, it does change how I view attack speed vs. damage bonuses. You're overvaluing recovery speed. This post explains it well: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68171-josh-sawyer-visually-explains-attack-recovery/page-3 Pure attack speed modifiers affect everything, so a monk built for DPS is still going to run circles around a fighter built for DPS. The fighter buffs mainly help shield users. Tanking on par with Paladins, but with a lot more damage potential. (especially noticeable is the buff to Clear Out. The damage doesn't appear to be based on weapons, so a shield user can make full use of it) Why is recovery speed modifiers overvalued. That post clearly shows an attack speed and a recovery speed. I have also read elsewhere that sawyer started dexterity ONLY effects attack speed nothing else Its overvalued because it doesn't affect the entirety of the attack like dexterity does, which will often make it worse than pure damage modifiers. And i'm not sure where you got your sources, but dexterity affects everything because it increases action speed. (I tested it) hey man im almost certain that that sawyer stated dexterity only affects action speed not recovery speed, scour the forums for it you will find it, just google the appropriate words and obsidian forum

The way I see it from the chart is: two handed weapon + heavy armor has a 4 sec attack cycle: 1s attack + 2 sec recovery + 1 sec penalty(50%). With a -20% recovery on your heavy armor you would be at 30% recovery penalty or 0.6 second recovery penalty due to armor for a total of 3.4 sec attack cycle instead of 4 sec... that's a boost of (1- 3.4/4) x 100% = 15% dps. Nah, I think, a sawyer has stated on there, there is two different types of recovery periods, 1. Normal recovery time 2. Armour recovery time So armoured grace and items like pilfers grip will only affect the armour recovery time not the entire recovery time. Can a senior person please confirm this is correct? We need a senior no newbs I don't see the contradiction if 1 sec attack from 2 hander then you get 2 sec normal recovery and on top of that 50% penalty from armor meaning 0.5 * 2(Normal) = 1 sec recovery penalty from armor, with the ability instead you get 30% penalty due to armor leading to a 0.6 sec recovery penalty due to armor instead of 1 sec. The way I see it from the chart is that armor recovery penalty is applied based on normal recovery. do you agree there are 2 types of recovery, normal recover and then armour recovery and armoured grace will only affect the armour recovery?

The way I see it from the chart is: two handed weapon + heavy armor has a 4 sec attack cycle: 1s attack + 2 sec recovery + 1 sec penalty(50%). With a -20% recovery on your heavy armor you would be at 30% recovery penalty or 0.6 second recovery penalty due to armor for a total of 3.4 sec attack cycle instead of 4 sec... that's a boost of (1- 3.4/4) x 100% = 15% dps. Nah, I think, a sawyer has stated on there, there is two different types of recovery periods, 1. Normal recovery time 2. Armour recovery time So armoured grace and items like pilfers grip will only affect the armour recovery time not the entire recovery time. Can a senior person please confirm this is correct? We need a senior no newbs If this is correct then armoured grace is severely less powerful then I thought, if this is incorrect armoured grace is probably the most powerful talent in the game

The way I see it from the chart is: two handed weapon + heavy armor has a 4 sec attack cycle: 1s attack + 2 sec recovery + 1 sec penalty(50%). With a -20% recovery on your heavy armor you would be at 30% recovery penalty or 0.6 second recovery penalty due to armor for a total of 3.4 sec attack cycle instead of 4 sec... that's a boost of (1- 3.4/4) x 100% = 15% dps. Nah, I think, a sawyer has stated on there, there is two different types of recovery periods, 1. Normal recovery time 2. Armour recovery time So armoured grace and items like pilfers grip will only affect the armour recovery time not the entire recovery time. Can a senior person please confirm this is correct? We need a senior no newbs

You're overvaluing recovery speed. This post explains it well: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68171-josh-sawyer-visually-explains-attack-recovery/page-3 Pure attack speed modifiers affect everything, so a monk built for DPS is still going to run circles around a fighter built for DPS. The fighter buffs mainly help shield users. Tanking on par with Paladins, but with a lot more damage potential. (especially noticeable is the buff to Clear Out. The damage doesn't appear to be based on weapons, so a shield user can make full use of it) Ahhh I see, the armoured grace will only effect the recovery time that is extended by wearing the armour, not the entire recovery speed, that's frickin BS, thats also why they must have buffed it up to 20% in patch 2.03

You're overvaluing recovery speed. This post explains it well: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68171-josh-sawyer-visually-explains-attack-recovery/page-3 Pure attack speed modifiers affect everything, so a monk built for DPS is still going to run circles around a fighter built for DPS. The fighter buffs mainly help shield users. Tanking on par with Paladins, but with a lot more damage potential. (especially noticeable is the buff to Clear Out. The damage doesn't appear to be based on weapons, so a shield user can make full use of it) Why is recovery speed modifiers overvalued. That post clearly shows an attack speed and a recovery speed. I have also read elsewhere that sawyer started dexterity ONLY effects attack speed nothing else

I agree with a lot of what has been written here, it basically comes down to: 1. A fighter with armoured grace and all the weapon specialisations with superior tankiness Vs 2. A rogue with sneak attacks, afflictions, critical hits and deathblows.........who will have a significant lower deflection It's a pretty close call, I mean there would be a lot of luck involved in this match up, but also remember the rogue has shadowing beyond (invisibility), this will give the rogue guaranteed first hit and if the rogue crits a blinding strike on that first hit the rogue will probably win. But then also remember the fighter has the talent unbroken, which is basically a self resurrect. Will the rogue be able to down it a second time? It's very close.