Elric Galad

The fight in this DLC are tough, but not to the level of Abbey of the Fallen Moon in PoE1. Abbey of the Fallen Moon was maybe my favorite place in all PoEs (beautiful place and incredible lore). And Oh boy it was stressful for about the same reason (high level Kiths with plenty of nasty abilities and... monks !)

That's the general rule with Kith foes. They have the same nasty abilities as your team, but they don't have the nasty bottomless pit of hp that some non-kiths have (barbarians do to some extant).

OK, I went through my first run (as Survivor), with main quest battles and a few other. Everything was fine enough, in my opinion, the mod can be published. Just a couple of comments (apart for Berath Blessing that I already told) : - Missing the Quality enchant by gold only upgrades. But don't remove the possibility to upgrade them with Mythic Adra and SSS quest items (which enable Legendary Quality upgrade) - Ingredients should not be sold for clarification. Ingredients that you get during battles should be mostly for selling. You should advertise that the rewards aren't balanced to enable recipes in the description of the mod. - I didn't check if Consumables can be edit: purchased indefinitely. They should. Or at least in big enough quantity. Everything was fine for mechanic, battle balance, etc... (I mean, after the initial trouble to beat nagas, but as you pointed, it was because I didn't use the mod to get lvl 16 henchmen directly). Congratulations ! Hope to see this soon on Nexus !

Yes, but it doesn't matter much because it is a multi combination combo. You really need to build for it, so won't run into it randomly. I could theoritically nerf it (it's like 1 parameter chance by item, so not much... well... Effort) but it won't affect BPM experience unless one wants it deliberately. And if one wants it deliberately, well, why forbid it. Totally make sense indeed. I think I will add this to Tornado, set its PEN to 10 as I thought, and not change its damages. And the 2 other abilties needed a bit of fun anyway. EDIT : rounded down to 10m->2s and 15m->3s Missing one I'm currently pretty happy with the current status of Tier 9 druid abilities in BPM. Aspect of Galawain Interrupt on Hit, Finger of Death with accuracy bonus is the most reliable finisher (with Marux Amanth) and Pollen Patch... well... heal well enough. Maelstrom may need a little nerf (I'm tuning down my initial plan to a total of 314 damages... something like 30-50 for secondary random pulse is enough of a nerf), and Tornado a little buff (the one you suggest + PEN 10 + the previous ones).

I do think that Maelstrom PEN nerf is quite hard to debate. All comparable spells have either 7 PEN or 6 PEN dual types. Damage-wise, I think the topic is much more complicated though. That's why I write my reasoning, so people can react.

Maelstrom works too, but I won't be shocked if Meteor Shower was better in this context. Maelstrom might be better for later phase, when one need to dispell many small oozes quickly. It is not indeed. Symbols are base ~300 average in my book. (I wondered about Symbols too, but I haven't written everything.) So pretty compatable with Maeltrom nerfed version. Symbols work much slower, that's the main reason. Maelstrom happens in about 10s with good INT. My initial question was : "is Maelstrom above the curve of OP Tier 9 spells ?" Because other people stated it (and because I wanted to understand) The numbers are complicated to interpret, but it seems to me that it is the case. Are you speaking about Tornado ? I don't think it is really powerful (but I might be wrong indeed). I think the consensus is that it is not that much for a Tier 9. Buffing its PEN while nerfing Maelstrom's PEN was a way to distinguish them more (which is easier to make both valuable than makes them direct concurrent) And the damages felt a bit low. I could also go for PEN 10 (as Eld Nary windy cousin) and not change damages. Anyway, if I make some powerfull stuff OP, it is not the intention (but might be the actual result ) To make 2 spell of the same tier "usable". You can do it by 2 means : To make them different enough, so each one has its niche To make them of equivalent raw power (quite subjective in certain cases, like comparing potatoes and democracy). If the gap in "power" is too high, even if both have niche, you won't use the "weaker" much unless desperate circonstances. The later is especially important for Tier 9 because you have 1 cast of it, so you really want to use it in an optimal manner. Also Ability point are scarse on Tier 9 (For casters, 1 will go to Prestige, so only 2 points).

Meteor Shower has similar PEN as Missile Salvo (7 PEN single type). That's the easiest part of the comparison (but at least justifies the PEN nerf) Without taking into account Intellect, Might, Power Level, Meteor base damages (without DoT) are : (16 ticks - 1 for random pulse spell) x 28 damages = 420 base damages The issue is that one has to probabilizes the chances of hitting something with the individual missile since they're only 1.5m per missile within 5m radius. You have to add a ratio to the preceding formula, in defavor of Meteor Shower. Except if you use it against Hauani O Whe, of course, which I strongly recommand The normal pulse of Maelstorm has 100% chances of applying. The random pulse of Maelstorm is 3x bigger (2.5² vs 1.5² radius) than Meteor Shower and always hit a target. DoT can be seen as happening more or less for the 8s duration + 4s of DoT, provided Meteors refreshes it often. That's (8+1(intial tick)+4) x 6 = 78 damages with about 100% probability. EDIT : So that's about 78 damages vs 114 damages for the fixed part (DoT scales slightly better but won't apply to the whole 5m+INT radius of the pulsating part ; the DoT number feels slightly optimistic). And 250 (150 with nerf ; EDIT 200 with second version of nerf) vs 420 damages for the random part, with much higher chances (thrice bigger AoE, auto-target a foe) to actually hit for Maelstorm. Unless speaking of a very big target. That's why non-avian Dinosaurs were killed by Meteors I do think the damage nerf is (at least partially) justified. Maelstrom would still have for it : - Multiple PL abuses through items - random targetting can be used in a smart fashion (if you manage to have 1 target within the RED area, all of the AoE will connect on it) - Much higher range - Happens on a slightly faster delay (6s vs 8s + DoT) I'm also thinking about buffing a bit more Tornado a bit more. BPM Tornado has 10m radius and Interrupt on Graze. I plan to change : - 7 PEN -> 9 PEN (more PEN than Maelstrom) - 45-72 damages -> 55-88

Now that I have the actual number about Maelstorm : This spell indeed feels quite above the curve, even for a tier 9 spells. 1) Choosing a "Benchmark" I loved spamming Minoletta's Missile Salvo as SC Wiz. This spell basically sniped a couple of foes and certainly feels powerful. I'm using it to compare because : - it is considered a good spell, and feel relevant enough to go SC Wiz - it scales similarly with INT, MIG, PL - its projectiles have high chance to connect because the impact per projectile / random radius radio is 0.6. Maelstrom has 0.5 but since it auto-targets at least one potential target, I consider it has similar chances of hitting foes within its area Without taking into account Intellect, Might, Power Level, its base damages are : (12 ticks - 1 for random pulse spell) x 20,5 damages = 225,5 base damages With good multiplicative stats, it's no surprise that it can one shot foes ! Now Great Maelstorm used vs 1 foe (all random pulses will hit that 1 foe) : (6 ticks - 1 for random pulse spell) x 50 damages + (2 pulse tick +1 for pulse spells) x 38 damages = 364 base damages Both are dual type of damages, but Maelstorm has 7 PEN on first effect and 9 PEN on the second one. Maelstorm has a much wider AoE, but it must be said that Salvo does its damages almost instantly (3.75s at max Intellect) so that's surely something in its favor. I would expect both spells to have similar performance in term of damages and PEN. As calculated above it is not the case. 2) Proposed reasonable nerf for Maelstorm : Pulse attack : 36-40 damages, 7 PEN -> 36-40 damages, 6 PEN Random Pulse attack : 40-60 damages, 9 PEN -> 35-45 damages, 6 PEN (EDIT : changed a bit from first version considering the massive damages from Meteor Shower) New damages computation : (6 ticks - 1 for random pulse spell) x 40 damages + (2 pulse tick +1 for pulse spells) x 38 damages = 314 base damages That's still higher than Salvo (I don't want to destroy Maeltstorm either) but significantly less. Justifications : - PEN nerf feels good IMHO. Note that as a Tier 9 ability, it gets a natural +4 PEN on top of everything it gets from PL. It makes picking PEN Talents and Fury subclass more relevant. It corrects the weirdness of a displayed PEN of 7 while a part of the spell is actually different. It makes Maelstorm less efficient vs some part of your foes, so you're less likely to auto-win everything, while being still relevant vs many foes. - The random part ticks more and can really be abused by proper placement, once you have read this thread and become aware of Maelstorm targetting. Knowledge is power. This thread is a kind of Maelstorm buff in disguise . Also I plan to out back KW as in vanilla : - Both attacks get the Elements KW (Storm was missing from the attacks ; not sure it is intended but only Lord Dalryn's Voulge affect this KW AFAIK, and Lord Dalryn's Voulge affects PL so having the KW at ability level is enough) - Random pulse get the Electricity, Fire and Wind KW as in vanilla game. - Pulse get the Water KW as in vanilla game. Quite symetric this way. I know CP added the Frost KW because of the Cold damages, but I think the Water KW made the spell more unique. It has specific interaction with Tekehu (with Revku Cloak, he can stand in Maelstorm unarmed ; with Amira's Wing, he can be immune to the cold attack and gets +15 defense vs the random fire/shock) and next BPM version of Fire Shield (will be immune to Frost but as currently be extinguished by Water). Water benefits from the same Talent as Frost. CP adding Frost KW to the Fire / Shock attack was probably an oversight The spell is about "cold Water" (as it appear in the description) as Boiling Spray was about "hot water". It makes some sense that cold Water target Fortitude while actual Hail (Frost KW) targets Reflex.

The real reason why Clear Out shines is that the AoE is bigger (after the upgrade), that it is a bit of a Crowd Control effect and is only 2 ressouces instead of 3 for BPM HoF. In a nutshell, Clear Out tends to be spammable while Heart of Fury is kind of situational power spike (it deals additional damages/Accuracy/PEN, is a Full Attack). Clear Out + Morningstar is a really great combo.

The blast radius indeed mostly depends in priority on "Blast radius" data : - "Large" : 5m - "Medium" : 2.5m - "Small" : 1.5 - If blast size is equal to "Override", the ability uses the Override value instead. Often Override value is set in the gamedata file to the "right" value (example : if blast size is Small, they put 1.5 in Override value) but it's not actually used. For Maelstrom, there are 3 AoE : - Large 5m extended by INT for the crush/frost pulse - Large 5m NOT extended by INT for the hazard zone - Medium 2.5m extended by INT centered on a random target within the hazard zone for the shock/fire pulse (see above, I described the later 2 after saying the crush/frost pulse works like any classic pulse spell)

Side notes : Maelstrom benefits from PL from all its Keyword for all of its attack. But other bonus (PEN Elemental Talents, Ring of Focused Flames) only works with the right attack (Frost bonus for the pulse effect, Fire and Shock for the random pulse... except Community Patch keyworded this random pulse Frost, so if you play with CP, you can get +1 PEN From Secrets of Rime too. I think this is a minor bug @MaxQuest) Maelstorm displays a PEN of 7, but that's only true for the frost/crush part. The Fire/Shock part has 9 PEN. (both these base values get a +4 PEN for being from a Tier 9 ability) Magran's Might displays Interrupt on Crit but Interrupt on Hit. This is a bug too. Actually Magran's Might roll 2 times : 1 dummy roll that does nothing else than interrupting on Hit (normal interrupt), and the actual attack that Interrupt on Crit (Prone this time). That's why Magran's Might sometimes interrupts normally, and sometimes knock you down. EDIT : No it does not and does not cause Prone. This is most likely an oversight and I will probably address it with BPM by showing only Interrupt on Hit causing Prone (this is a Tier 9 spell so I thin it's good this way).

... and other random AoE spells. To be more explicit, I'm speaking about spells from this list : - Storm of Holy Fire - Minoletta's Missile Salvo - Meteor Shower - Magran's Might (not technically an AoE, but follow the same obscure rule for its Pulses) - Great Maestorm* * Maelstorm is a kind of double spell. It has a classic Crush/Frost pulsating AoE (such as the Symbols) and a random Fire/Shock AoE. The 2 effects have no connection. I will be speaking about the random Fire/Shock AoE part below. 1) Pulse : These spells do have pulses, as for classic pulsating spells but it does not appear in their description, or sometimes a 3s pulse appear in the description but is wrong. (From the gamedata file, they have a pulse attribute of 3s but this attribute isn't used) What they do not say is that they have a "number of random hit" attribute that appears in their gamedata file. You can therefore deduce the pulse interval by dividing their duration by this "number of random hit" as the "number of random hit" stands for the TOTAL number of pulse for the base duration. Here are the actual numbers : - Storm of Holy Fire : 12 pulses, happening every 0.75s for 9s - Minoletta's Missile Salvo 12 pulses, happening every 0.125s for 1.5s - Meteor Shower 16 pulses, happening every 0.5s for 8s - Magran's Might 8 pulses, happening every 1s for 8s - Great Maestorm 6 pulses, happening every 1s for 6s (for Shock/Fire part) The pulses do happen periodically for the duration. Now what's interesting is that you can extend the duration as for other Pulsating spells. As for Pulsating spells, Intellect does matter, but Power Level has not effect on duration. So with INT 20, you'll get 50% more random pulses. However, there seem to be something that causes having about 1 less pulse that what you could expect. For example : - with 10 INT Magran's Might has 7 pulses. - with 20 INT Magran's Might has 11 pulses. I can't say if it's always minus 1 or if it could be more or less in certain case. Let's say it's 1 less pulse as an approximation. (This is the contrary of normal pulstating spells that gets 1 more pulse than you could expect : a pulse happens at 0s) 2) AoE These spells have 2 AoE sizes : - The first one is rather big but isn't extended by INT (what you see extended by INT when aiming Maestorm is the extension of the normal Ice/Crush pulstating component.) - The second one is smaller and happens at a random position in the original AoE. It is extended by INT. What can be surprising the position of the secondary AoE is the position of the CENTER of the smaller AoE. So, if it happens on the border of the initial AoE, due to its own radius, you can hit something OUTSIDE of the initial AoE (friendly or not, depending if you are in the friendly zone or not of the secondary radius. Basically, you have more chance of hitting : - A bigger target - A target closer to the center of the AoE - When you have high INT - When the secondary radius is bigger in comparison of the first. See below the comparison of Initial (not modifiable by INT) /Secondary radius (modifiable by INT) : - Storm of Holy Fire Initial 5m, Secondary 1.5m - Minoletta's Missile Salvo Initial 2.5m, Secondary 1.5m - Meteor Shower Initial 5m, Secondary 1.5m - Great Maestorm (random part) Initial 5m, Secondary 2.5m (not displayed by the ability) Therefore Missile Salvo and to a lesser extant Great Maelstorm have higher chance of hitting. Missile Salvo usually hit the "main center target" with all its projectiles. 3) What is special about Maelstorm Maelstorm is doubled by a classic pulsating effect which AoE is 5m extendable by INT. However, only the "red" part of the UI display matters for the random component. I said random secondary AoE can happen at any position within the initial random AoE. That isn't true for Maelstorm though. Maelstrom pick up a random valid target within its initial AoE and applies its 2.5m AoE to hit. This means : - Maelstorm random pulses will ALWAYS hit something (as long as there is at least one valdi target in the RED AoE) - If there is a single valid target within Maelstorm RED AoE, it will get all the pulses (with 20 INT : 4 Frost/Crush pulses and 8 Shock/Fire random pulses. Goodbye !) - If your foes are clumped within the RED AoE, they will get all the Pulse (originating from one of them) That is one of the reason why Maelstorm feels so powerful But also unique. Now that you know the rules, you are free to use them in a smart way !

It could have been a good idea but that's actually the niche of the ogres.

Well, I would add some concerns about your ranking, focused on BPM specific features. Ranger is indeed a pet class (or at least summoner) so if you don't like it... Ranger class is weird because it's MC compatible abilities don't pack that much punch. So better to use them for special trick such as dispell shot. But with BPM, tier 8 and 9 offer more serious stuff, such as Permanent Enfeebled, general goodness buff through Shadowing Beyond, interrupt on all Crit (with stellar accuracy)... I don't think the class as a whole is week but until then, it can feel a bit lacking. Weird to speak about SC Fighter without mentioning Clear Out and it's upgrades that can really be fun with some weapons (Willbreaker for example). Also BPM SC Fighter is practically a ressource regenerating class. Finally, you will have some support through either Armor breaking Sundering Blow or AoE Acute from Inspired Strike. Inspired Strike and upgraded Clear Out should be your primary bread and butter as a SC Fighter. Druid does have good spells with BPM at tier 6+, but there is indeed something weird in their design as they suddenly stop being a pure flashy boom boom AoE damages dealer to become a support and combo class. They have their best Summons at these level, resurrection (always useful backup) and Wildstrike Frenzy+ Entropy or Avenging Storm to deal stupid amount of auto attack damages.

Well, I already modded BDD anyway The point of modding it would be to be able to use Maelstorm quite often without winning intsantly (while still doing a fair amount of damages) Not being able to use your signature SC Druid damages spell because it is so strong that it makes the game uninteresting is quite sad. It's weird to say, but the point of a nerf is to make an ability usable (and enjoyable). Anyway, I do like to understand exactly how things work, independantly from the fact they require modding or not. Now I am at this step.

I will check with the actual files (for example if the 6 secondary attacks per pulse have an AoE Themselves), but it's still a first layer of clarification. I expect to see an "additional attack" within the first pulse attack attribute. That should simply cause a kind of double pulsating effect but there shouldn't be any link between the 2 (like it is the case for the buggy Screaming Soul). Also I must check how bonus PL for KW and Elemental PEN Talent applies to the whole package. Ring of Focused Flame only applies to Shock/Burn attack, which also has apparently a 9 base PEN (from an old thread necro). An option could be to reduce the overall PEN, or the damages of the random part.

Good point. Forbidding Maeltstorm from out of combat might be a way. The range is average but enough. True. Symbols win fights, but over time. Meteor Shower is indeed annoying, typically getting the +20% range talent could help. I only used it against Hauani O Whe, because Missile Salvo does Crush/Corrode and the blob is resistant to it. Missile Salvo is much easier to use, that's why it's my choice. But it has smaller AoE. Typically eradicates a couple of foes unless underpenetrates. This isn't enough to win instantly, but it turns the tide more often than not. Sort of enough to win, but not instantly. Well, are you suggesting Wizards are fragile ????? They are. And I nerfed WotW already. But I'm a bit reluctant to nerf Maelstorm if it's a general single class design. And why I'm trying to identify what would make this spell even above this already high curve.

Do you think Great Maelstrom is that much above things like Missile Salvo, Meteor Shower and the convenient and twice per encounter Symbols? Some of these spells have a description that is not fully clear. Actually I'm not completely sure what Maelstrom do, except for "No you can't win an encounter just by clicking Maelstrom. - Haha, Great Maelstrom go Brrrr"

BPM Druid summons were basically balanced around Lashing Vine (the one that stayed untouched). All were added weapons scaling to legendary (Fire Stag and Aspect of Galawain already had it, but they were buffed in different fashion, although fire stag BDD cheese doesn't work anymore). Call to the Primordial had to be nerfed a bit not to be broken with the scaling. Blight Summon were removed their randomness (Minor summon storm, medium fire, major ice) so you can really plan what to do with them. Still, none of them got up to 14 PEN attacks with dual type

Ok, got it. The vanilla Dragon Summon has a buggy Frightening aura. It is supposed to proc every 3s for Infinite duration, 3s based duration and 15m radius. But the pulse duration is strangely written 1000E9 so it only procs once when the dragon is initially summoned. So I've just added a couple of goodies to Dragon special attacks without increasing their number (you'll see Overbearing Knockdown...), fixed the Frightening aura (reduced the AoE to 2.5m radius), added Fire Immunity (so can feel safe summoning the dragon Vs fire based foes) and I think it will be fine. Still won't beat the 4 weapons gangbang at dealing auto attack damages, but now has a good amount of utility. The drake will have 5 uses of its abilities, but I think it's good this way due to increased duration.

It is often disregarded that Lashing Vine has 14 PEN with dual damages type. To whoever asks why it is good. Call to the Primordials give 3 oozes (2 with BPM but they scale more), they are quite good at tanking.

And it works to some extant with Confounding Blind I guess. Renewing the duration should present resetting the deflection debuff.

My bet is that they designed the ability as if Confusion worked as in PoE1. And then they forgot (or "prioritized" as they say )

But rather bad =/= bad Top Tier > Very good > Good > Okay > Mehish > rather bad > bad > Perplexing Sap But even, saying it's rather bad was probably exagerated. I probably played it with a not suited build. I still think that an ability should be able to be slightly better on its own and slightly more rewarding in the right circonstance, but I can see why it is suitable in the right chain. Still I will put Plague of Insects at Top Tier rank (bar poison immunity, but I have to remember that a single scroll saved me from those Woedica fanatics), Insect Swarm at Very Good, and Infestation of Maggots somewhere between Okay (with support) and Rather Bad (on its own). It is not exceptional but do its part in the right build (which happens to be a quite common druid build so...).

Why am I thinking about Mowdyr right now ?