Brickyard

I thought the best single quest in either game was the murder trial on Manaan. I also thought that Jolee Bindo was the most developed and interesting of all the NPCs in either game, as well.

Star Maps, for sure. After finishing, I see no real point in looking for the Jedi. I learned nothing from them, and, well, that's really it (without getting into spoilers). The only one that was remotely interesting was Atris, and that's because she actually had some interesting conversation possibilities.

Thanks for the link, I generally don't register my games, since it usually just gets you spam from the company about things I don't care much about, or already know about. I fear my answers were a little too negative for how I really felt, but that's just the way they worded the questions. So much fell below my expectations, but not for lack of original ideas or concepts, just for lack of execution (which I take to be lack of time given to Obsidian to actually finish the game). I hope this does lead to a KOTOR 3, but that it leads to a QUALITY KOTOR 3, not 30 hour hackfest with no real story and mindlessly easy combat. You know, one with a comprehendable ending.

Carth - dull Bastilla - interesting Mission - interesting Zaalbar - boring Wookie Jolee - awesome Juhani - liked her lots Canderous - dull T3 - meh HK - great Atton - interesting Kreia - moody and annoying - incredibly annoying T3 - meh HK - good, but not as good as in the first one Handmaiden - interesting Visas - almost interesting Mira - almost interesting Mandalore - dull Hanharr - boring Wookiee (so far) Disciple - no idea Goto - annoying Bao-Dur - interesting I don't know if Visas is better as a DS person or not, but as LS, she just wasn't deep enough for me. I think I learned about 90% of her in the first 5 minute conversation. From that point on, she was a body just like the rest of my crew (apart from the ever-annoying Kreia). In general, I find the NPCs in K2 to lack a story that feels....lengthy. They have deep-seeming backstories, but there's just not a whole lot of exploring of those in the game (or it all happens at once). Only Handmaiden has one that SEEMS deeper, but that's due to the level limits on when you can fight her, so it's really just forced. But then again, I've only played LS in K2, so there may be some DS options I've not seen yet. But I do know that I have no clue WHY Visas went from DS to full LS in the space of one converstation after I didn't kill her when she attacked me. Overall I'd rate the K1 NPCs slightly better than the K2 ones. But I would also rate the KOTOR (both 1 and 2) NPCs as a group only behind the BG2 NPCs (best ever). Both K games have better NPCs than any of the NWN games, for sure.

Interesting stuff. For me, K1 took longer than K2. Not 18 hours longer, but longer. As far as I can tell, my first play-through on each pretty much fully explored everything I could as a Light Side character, but I could have missed things in each game, for sure. As for graphics, overall K1 is better than K2, mostly in scenery (the world atmosphere). As for interesting places, in K2 you have Nar Shaadda, and a bunch of dullish type planets. I found Dantooine slightly interesting in K2, but beyond that, not much of interest. Telos, outside of Atris' stronghold, was rather dull to me, and Korriban was almost non-existant. Dxun/Onderan were, individually, pretty sparse, but combined seemed on the level of Dantooine. M5 was atrocious. In K1, I found Taris pretty intriguing, as well as Dantooine and Korriban. Manaan...not so much. And the mystery planet seemed rather uninspired, also. As for combat, K1 was much more challenging than K2, in all ways. First time through I had all kinds of troubles on the Star Forge, while in K2, I put the game on hard to hopefully give myself a challenge in the Trayus Academy (didn't work). Combat in K2 was, for me, largely an uninvolved affair. I simply didn't ever need to DO anything about 90% of the time. In K1 there were times when I had to use strategy (very seldom, but they existed). In K2, the only time I had to make an effort was when I was Mira on Nar Shaadda, and I intentionlly didn't level her when I got control. That took some doing to get out of on normal settings (I wanted her to get as many Jedi levels as possible, just like in my now-halted 2nd playthrough as DS, I didn't level Atton at all until I converted him to a Jedi - this made some early combat challenging, though not much). As for the whole "mature" plot line thing, I don't find K2 any more mature than K1. Different, yes, but not more "mature". It's darker, for sure, but that doesn't make it mature. Just darker. My main problem with K2 is that from the beginning, I wanted to kill Kreia, and yet I was stuck with her as a teacher. I suspected her to be evil from the first chat (as my LS char), and in the end, even though she's "neutral", she really is a form of "evil". Yet I was stuck with her from day 1. Only got through Peragus, Telos and a little of Nar Shaadda as my DS char, and I thought I would like her better, but I actually like her less this time. It was very transparant to me from that first conversation with Kreia that she was the final boss I'd have to fight, yet I could do NOTHING about it. In K1, I'll admit I had no idea that I was Revan, and therefore I liked the twist. For someone who saw it coming, I can see how it would be predictable. My brother-in-law could see the twist in Sixth Sense coming, and because of that, he doesn't really think the movie is all that good. But I didn't see it, and so my feelings on the movie are that it's one of the best twists ever.

I've not entered into PvP (barring getting two characters to post-Searing), but it is one aspect of this game I'm looking forward to. I've had it since Friday, and played quite a bit. But one thing I like, at least compared to EQ 2, is that unlike in EQ 2, I don't feel COMPELLED to play at all times. (I played EQ2 from release until around early-Jan, but then tailed off and let my account lapse in mid-Feb) I like the options on builds, with 6 classes, and pretty much a forced secondary class (which you never have to actually use any skills from, if you choose not to, so you CAN play a single class if you choosea). I've messed around with an Elementalist/Monk (first char, level 10), Necromancer/Ranger (2nd char, level , and have been playing the past few days an Elementalist/Mesmer (level 8, but still pre-searing). With only being able to actually use 8 skills from your two classes at any given time (choosing/changing them in towns only, out in the wild you can't change on the fly), and with dozens of skills for each class, any combination can be rather unique, if you choose to try to be unique. For example, my E/Mes that I'm currently playing has around 15 or so skills to choose from, but picking only 8, I can definitely get totally different play-styles at only level 8. At level 20, with more skills, I can see a huge variety of effective characters in PvP (with 30 different class combinations to start from, plus the dozens of skills that each brings). Hoping to settle on a final choice of character by sometime tomorrow (still one more combo I want to mess around with, pre-searing), and then get into post-searing heavily with the missions and quests there, as well as PvP. My impression is that it's both a simple and complex game, and will be even more complex in things like 8v8 guild battles.

I haven't seen it yet.

I loved this game for most of the time I was playing it (2nd time through, as 1st time I got stuck with a bug...couldn't progress on Telos...and so stopped...started over a month or so later, and passed that part fine. 3rd time through, got the same bug again - post patch, and have given up trying to get through it), but the end was....very poor, I thought. My overall experience with the game is that it could have been a masterpiece. But it wasn't. I am left with a final feeling of disappointment. Disappointed in a lack of finishing the story in a cohesive way. Disappointed in the amount of bugs that are GAME-STOPPERS, even after the patch, and prevent me from playing the game. Disappointed in what I see as a lack of good execution, from START to FINISH, of a pretty good story. Disappointed in what appears to be very poor QA on the part of whomever (Lucas or Obsidian, I don't really care) was responsible. Disappointed that Obsidian was given, and agreed to, only one year to make this game. It's obvious they weren't up to the task. I'm not sure if anyone would have been, though. So, in the end, no, I was not satisfied with KOTOR 2. I have a game that it seems I have about a 50/50 chance of being able to progress beyond Telos everytime I play it. If I can't progress, I have to start over (or load from a save on Peragus). I will probably give it another go when Aurora's project is complete, as I have no idea what the cut-but-still-on-the-disc story parts are, and am genuinely curious about what, perhaps, Obsidian intended for this story. I think it would have been spectacular with another 6 or so months to finish and polish the game. I am much more interested and anticipating Aurora's mod than any possible (though unlikely) second official patch (which this game desperately needs, IMO), or even any other title by Obsidian. And I feel like I was suckered by the name Knights of the Old Republic, and spent my money unwisely. Live and learn, I guess. Not a big LucasArts fan (only own the two KOTORs), but am a big Bioware fan. I learned that, pretty much, only Bioware can really make Bioware-style games well.

I found it to be useful to not level my character up at certain points in the game to have, basically, a free heal. Not that the combat was overly difficult (on normal settings), but there were occasional battles I'd stumble into not ready for. Mostly this was on M5, so it's well after you choose your prestige class. Of course it was extremely useful to keep companions' levels back at times (Handmaiden especially).

Well after finishing K2 finally (LS male), and having played K1 (male, LS and DS once each), I definitely think there needs to be a K3 for the stories to come to some semblance of a conclusion. Reading a bit it seems that Canon seems to be that both Revan and the Exile finished the games as LS males, which is where I would start, if I were making the next game. There's just too many contingencies to account for if you start making the story try to work for every possible outcome of the previous games (LS/DS male/female, romance Bastilla or not, romance Brianna/Visas or not, romance Carth/Atton or not, etc). I would start with the assumption that both finished the games LS males, Revan/Bastilla were a pair, and Exile romanced with Visas (that's the one that made the most sense to me, for the Exile). I make the main PC a new character, also. It would start a bit after the Exile had gone, alone, to look for Revan. T3 and HK would be left with Bao-Dur. The PC would be a promising potential Jedi in the general vicinity of what remains of the Republic. Surrounding him/her would be the capable force users of Bastila, Visas, Juhani (alive due to LS Revan), Disciple, and possibly Handmaiden and Atton. Small basis for a future council, I would think. Bastila and Visas would probably be at odds with each other, but both would be interested in the Exile's search for Revan. I wouldn't want either of them to be part of the PC party with the PC being a new character, though. Perhaps Juhani had been teaching you to use the force? No idea, but someone should have started your instructions. Revan and the Exile should be playable, at times, by the player, but not companions of the PC until the very end of the game. Perhaps a scene as each (like a Prologue, and a new short scene about 1/4 through, again at 1/2, and again at 3/4 or something?). But the main character should be a new PC who's quest is to ultimately find out where the two went, or what happened to them with regards to the True Sith. I would bring Mission back as a companion, as she'd now be older. Myself, I'd steer clear of either Wookiee, though. Mira would also be a good choice as a possible companion. Perhaps Atton and Handmaiden? Not sure. But I'd not send Juhani, Jolee, Bastila or Visas along (established Jedi). Carth is an Admiral now (so hard to make him low level). Bao-Dur would be a good possibility to be a companion. So that would give you: T3 HK Mission Bao-Dur Mira Atton Brianna so 3 spots left if you go by Obsidian's 10 (or 2 if by Bioware's 9). Enough of a continuation from the first two, but room for new companions for new story plots. I would have the new PC meet up with Jolee and Canderous in the game at some point(s), but they wouldn't be companions. (personal opinion is that Canderous is one of the most worthless companions in the two games, and it really bugged me to be saddled with him for so much of the last part of K2) Now I don't know exactly how the writers would get a new PC onto the trail of Revan/Exile, but I'm sure they could do so. It could just start out as something small, like Carth/Bastila think you're capable enough to go check some information out (could be relating to trying to find out why Revan went away or something), and in your trip, you encounter something that pretty much leads to you being the one that must stay on the trail. Eventually there needs to be a conclusion to the Revan story, so you need to meet them later in the game, possibly having a scene or two where the party is you, Revan and the Exile. The main reason I would start as a new PC is simply because you'd have to de-level Revan or the Exile for the beginning to be worth playing through (barring a cutscene where you play as one of them), or you'd start off the game very powerful already, which doesn't sound interesting. But I sincerely hope they don't start you off as a PC with memory problems AGAIN. First time I tried to play K2 I stopped right after the prologue because I felt I was playing almost the same story. I'd like a different beginning for a change.

Well having finally been able to complete this game due to a few freaky bugs (I completed it last night as a LS male), I've got to admit I was totally lost with much of what was going on on M5. I'd been close to finishing, but never 100% complete. And I've only finished it the one time, so easily could have missed much. I do plan on replaying as a DS male just to see what happens differently. As the game stood as I played it, I have no idea why I fought Hanharr as Mira. Why was she on the planet? I have no idea what the point of the Goto-Remote confrontation was, or how it resolved (obviously the Remote sets off the Shadow thing, or gets help in doing so), and seeing the unreachable points in the Academy was frustrating as hell. Who fixed the Ebon Hawk? Basically, from the first time I left Onderon (I went Telos-Nar Shaddaa-Dantooine-Dxun/Onderon-Korriban), I felt a little lost in what was happening, and felt the story sort of degenerated into mostly confusion, especially with regards to the companions. But Malachor V was mostly just confusing. Nothing but mindless hack-and-slash and finding all the really nice items that I simply didn't find when I needed them earlier in the game. At least I'm not the only one lost as to what was supposed to happen at the end.

Whenever given a choice, I will always choose PC over console. I prefer keyboard/mouse over controller just about any day (though KOTOR and KOTOR2 on the PC aren't really that modified to work well with the PC, via keyboard controls...look like pretty much a straight port over). I guess the only games I would prefer on console over PC are what I would consider less serious games. An example I would use is is racing games. I have quite a few for console (three NFS games, a rally game, and of course the console-only Gran Turismos). But my "serious" racing game is on PC. F1 Challenge. Better control (even with wheels), better realism, better performance (when graphics are included), and simply more realistic. Same goes with RPGs/Action RPGs/Action games. The more RPG the game is, the more I would like it on PC. The less RPG it is, the less I care. But I have more RPG games than Action games, as well. And as KOTOR 2 is an RPG, that means PC for me. It seems to come down to a level of seriousness, for some reason or another. I tend to view console games as less serious. Maybe the next generation of consoles will change that, but I'll end up with only one of them, not one of each, so perhaps I'll limit my choices of games. But I'll always have a PC or two that's up to date.

Possibly a little late, but I was having this problem in my 2nd playthrough (had zero problems in my first time through Nar Shaddaa, though I had other problems, and had to abandon that game). I had done every quest possible (LS), and had paid the little one 2k, and they wanted my head, attached or not, and wanted to meet with me. But of course they never showed up. So I spent about an hour running around the zones, sometimes using the speeder, sometimes not. Boarding and leaving the Hawk. Nothing. Until I tried to enter the Refugee Sector on foot. Right before that, I got the cutscene when the dockmaster is accosted. ENTERING the Landing Pad zone didn't trigger it. Leaving to the Entertainment or Dock sectors didn't trigger it. But almost going into the Refugee Sector (long ago wiped out by me) did trigger it. Seemed very odd.

These kinds of remarks always surprise me when they get posted when a bad game (at least to those who're upset with it) gets ragged on by users. Whether they're nice people or mean-spirited people is really meaningless. Nice people mess up every day in numerous jobs, as do mean people. Doesn't change the fact that nice people also get let go because they simply can't do the job. The team(s) that planned, developed and tested K2 might be THE first dozens of people on the "nice people with feelings list", but if they can't make a game that pleases their customers, they don't, IMO, deserve praise or slack. And I think most people who are complaining (and continuing to do so) are as much upset with the lack of post-release acknowledgement of the many flaws in the game (be they design in the story, or programming bugs) and the "soon" patch, as they are in feeling they wasted their money purchasing the game. If enough people are upset with K2, the people behind it don't really deserve much praise at all. A poor game developed in a short (too short?) amount of time is still a poor game. It might have great concepts and great potential, but I know I didn't pay $50 for potential, but for a game to enjoy. I haven't gotten that yet, but I don't see anyone at LucasArts or Obsidian offering to buy the game back from me (even at a discount), and the place I purchased the game from doesn't allow returns. So I (along with others, apparantly) am stuck with a game I don't particularly enjoy, as is, and am short a bit of cash. I feel ripped off, to be honest. I hope Obsidian doesn't go the way of Troika, but if NWN2 isn't better, I wouldn't be surprised (or really upset) if they did. Companies that make poor games shouldn't be around, IMO. Of course if the majority of players were mostly happy with K2, my opinion obviously means little, but since most people don't take the time to go to messageboard forums, there's really no way of knowing until after either/both NWN2 and K3 are released to get a good picture of how the masses took to K2. But whether the people at Obsidian and/or LucasArts have feelings really is irrelevant to the quality (or lack-thereof) a game. The end product is all that matters, and I hope that both LA and Obsidian are paying attention to the reactions. I'm pleased to see that LA had a shakeup in it's heirarchy, as from what I hear, Battlegrounds isn't the best game, either. Maybe it is 100% LA's fault that K2 has the problems it does, I don't know (and no one at LA or Obsidian are saying much at all about K2). I also don't care much. I care that I purchased a game I'm unhappy with, and LucasArts AND Obsidian are responsible, in one way or another. I think BG2 is the best game I've ever played, and I love HotU, as well as KOTOR 1, and I don't care if the people behind those titles are 100% royal pricks, they made great games, and I'd like to play more great games, and have no problems whatsoever spending $50 to do so.

Well I've already decided to: #1 - not purchase another LucasArts product #2 - wait at least a month before ever purchasing another Obsidian product (before K2, I was eagerly awaiting NWN2. Now...not so much. #3 - not trust game review sites ever again #4 - try to purchase games from places that allow returns, if I can find one around here (haven't located one yet). Abiding by #1 does not mean I won't play any LA products, just that they'll never see any more money from me. If Obsidian makes K3, well, good luck to them. Hopefully they'll have grown the balls by then to take their time and produce a finished game. I don't want them to go the way of Troika, but if NWN2's story is as full of unfinished plotlines, uncompletable quests, and no ending to speak of, they really deserve the fate of Troika, IMO. K2 may be the most disappointing game I've ever bought. Mostly because you can see the good ideas they had, and can see how it could have been one of the best ever, but it just...wasn't. It fell completely flat about 3/4 through. All that build-up to...nothing worthwhile. Lots of bugs (on my system, which does NOT have an ATI card) don't help, and nearly 6 weeks of a "soon" patch hurts more. And if K3 is console-only, I really doubt I get it. I have a PS2...no plans to ever get an X-Box or GameCube. And when the next generation of consoles come out, I'll likely buy ONE. It may or may not be the NextBox, it really depends on the game lineup (and K3 by Obsidian as NextBox-only...after K2, I can't see that as pushing TOWARDS choosing the NextBox).

Master Dahvernas, Everything you say may, indeed, be true. It still doesn't change the fact that Obsidian either bid on the contract, and stated they'd have it done by Christmas 2004, or agreed up front to have it done by that date when LucasArts imposed the deadline. Either way they were hugely optimistic about their abilities to produce a quality game in the time they agreed to (the ending is the MOST important, IMO, as it's what you leave the game with - and to me, a poor ending simply ruins an otherwise good game, because I am left with a "what was the point?" feeling upon completion, instead of a "cool, that rocked" feeling - put a good ending on a poor begining, and you have a complete 180, at least from me). Why am I to think that any game they release in the future will be any better? Faith? No one involved seems to be willing to state that they were disappointed with the product, so why should I assume anything other than their next one will be about the same? I can guarrantee that if KOTOR3 is made, I will be HUGELY skeptical of it. I can guarrantee I will not buy it day 1. I will most likely wait until it drops in price. And this is whether Obsidian does it or not (unless Bioware does it, then I'll buy sight unseen), since I don't know if it was mostly LucasArts' or Obsidian's problem with the crap ending. And the same goes with NWN2. No way I buy it day 1. That's two games I likely buy at a discount, or not at all, because the end of KOTOR2, IMO, ruined an otherwise great game. I don't know if there are enough people like me to matter, and I don't care much, but if there are enough people like me to affect the sales of either KOTOR3 or NWN2, then I really hope both Obsidian and LucasArts are paying attention to people like me.

I'm wondering how someone could NOT judge Obsidian's ability to make games based on the one game they've made. Maybe NWN2 will be different, if it's true that KOTOR2's problems were mostly the fault of LA's quick deadline, but that's only speculation. KOTOR2 has made me VERY wary of ever spending money on an Obsidian-made game, simply because it's the start of a track record. There is no other way to judge the potential quality of future games except on past games. Look at Bioware. They've made, IMO, 6 really good games, one average game, and one substandard game. And since their first 4 (again, IMO) were really good, and their last 2 were really good, I'll take my chances spending cash on their products (apart from Jade Empire, since I don't own an X-Box, and don't intend to buy one), and expect it to be good, as Bioware almost always makes great games. Dragon Age is most definitely pre-order material. Look at Blizzard. I've enjoyed everything they've made that I've purchased (all Warcraft RTS, both Starcraft RTS, and both Diablo games - I've no plans on purchasing WoW, though it's getting great revies). So if Blizzard makes another RTS or Diablo-type game, or tries to make a more involving single player RPG (or even a Diablo 3), odds are I'll buy it more or less instantly. Bethesda, same story. They made Morrowind and the two expansions (the only Bethesda games I've played), and they're very enjoyable. Oblivion is definitely on my "must have" list. But look at Obsidan. One game, with a (IMO) rather choppy story, and a REALLY choppy ending. Why would I expect their next game to be any different? Have they acknowledged that KOTOR2 is unfinished? Not that I have seen (and I could honestly care less if they agree it's unfinished, but can't comment due to a contract, it doesn't change the fact that money is out of my pocket and into theirs, yet I found the game not so good). All I can do is express my displeasure and HOPE they learn what people want (if, in fact, I'm in the majority - if I'm not, they'll ignore me, but also won't get any cash from me ever again). I can guarrantee I'll NOT buy NWN2 before reading extensive reviews to see if the STORY makes sense and is, for the most part, enjoyable. If it's "bad", I may end up getting it eventually, but not before it's in the discount bin (and I wouldn't have any high expectations of it, either). But I had high expectations for KOTOR2, based on KOTOR1, and was left disappointed. I will not let Obsidian disappoint me again.