Torm51

100% agree.

LMAO correct! But you are 100% right I think they did great with the Chanter. Funny thing is my SC is never a chanter but I do have one the large majority of playthroughs (not this one) because they are so damn good in both POE 1 (LEL dragon thrashed you lose) and POE 2 (LOL I always have resources) so good. In POE 1 I had a 3 man crew double chanter and a Paladin on an POTD/ Ironman run and lol was that fun. Dragon thrashed, Dragon Wailed X2 plus Sacred Immolation. Everyone in plate with super high defense....lol un-killable and nuclear AOE damage it was nuts.

I played SWOTR as well and obviously a Guardian But I was also into playing a caster as a Sage lol for some reason I thought SWOTR did caster well. im with you on PEN issues at max difficulty really throws balance to a wonky state IMO. Herald is great and I love tanking and healing as the MC if only I didn’t hate bards so much ahaha. Herald is perfect for what I like in this game. Healing tanking support. I’ll play one one day I have to. Although SC Paladin for pure support is not bad at all and his LOH is stronger plus the huge heal you get at PL9. The problem is zeal costs( @Elric Galads mod helps here) for all that so you have to put a summoner 100% in your party to make it worth to get zeal back from divine retribution. Maybe that’s not a problem but I feel like having to have a class to support another classes short coming stinks, you might as well multi the class that has the short comings. Chanter covers the Paladin weakness of high zeal costs for stuff by having unending resources. It’s legit perfect.

Oh also In big boss fights I don’t find tanks that good in POE 2 but maybe they are? All the boss has to do is disengage. The Engwithin Colossus would not disengage even though my Unbroken disengagement attack would not of killed him lol. In POE 1 I would set up my Paladin tank as an Alpha striker with quick switch, FOD and two Arbalests so he had two huge hits per fight plus SI at lvl 13. the rest of the time he healed, provided support with Exhortations, added melee accuracy to allies and tanked. So it felt like he could make a difference by immediately slaying a dangerous mob that fought alongside the dragon or two shot the dragon itself (Alpine dragon gets owned by FoD and SI in POE 1) There was less HP bloat for bosses in POE 1 which I liked because they could be gibbed but they could also one shot you (dragons). I felt that was cooler than WoW/MMO type bosses of deadfire (I still love deadfire it’s overall a better game IMO ).

Ya definitely. You know playing the Crusader shield tank so far I see why people don’t like it, most people don’t like to tank in general, I do lol. That said in a POTD party I find the value in it maybe I’m wrong. Mobs are sticky to his engagement it locks down a large part of the battlefield. It has saved my Ironman twice I can think of so far in Poko Kahara the double saint fight and Motari O Kozi against the tree boss. It let’s the damage dealers and buff/debuff breathe. There have been times where I play it wrong and my monk is under focus fire and it takes every heal I have to barely keep the monk up. What do people do who don’t run shield tanks on POTD, if I have that type of damage pressure on 2 characters one will go down. Maybe it’s style? They disable before that can happen? I feel like in early part of the fight having a tank come out of stealth and take on a bunch of bad guys is great. Obviously since the party is so small i run only one tank. Or maybe they do run a tank like that but they run a swashbuckler who has more damage potential. PS if you didn’t notice I like tanks I took almost two years off posting on these boards (I still lurked haha) because I was main tanking for my friends guild in classic WoW (although classic wow tanking is more of a duel wield damage dealer who switches to a shield when he starts taking too much damage it was fun, I did it back in 2004 and again in 2019/2020 lol)

Agreed, you know so far at level 15 I have not taken FoD (I think for the first time ever) I probably should, I have a lot of zeal most of the time and I do have the points to spare. That said I feel like most of my zeal will go to SI once/if I pick it up. I just feel like one handed weapon + shield and FoD is a pretty big MEH. That said with ring of focused flame and maxed PER plus devotions of the faithful it will crit a lot…it’s better than in POE 1 though where a one handed+ shield with FoD was USELESS lol. They did a better job if making auto attack/special attack damage count in POE 2 for one handed+ shield characters as long as you have the PEN. I just feel ill use FoD against trash mobs in fights I’ve already won anyway lol.

Agreed @Not So Clever Houndthe disengagement attack fear is just for extra damage there are actually times I don’t do it because I rather not have enemies running around if if they are being disengaged. Maybe it’s worth it always do it when/if you have overbearing guard dunno. So right now as is the Crusader tank does his job snd he’s got a TON of INT when he started with a flat 10. While buffed with the shield or the disc barrage upgrade he’s at 19 INT. Bronlars shield provides you 5 INT for a LONG TIME (36 seconds with 14 INT from gear). I’ve been using the shield INT and THEN hitting disc barrage for a much longer buff uptime. This gets me thinking since I have the upgrade from barrage that gives you plus 5 INT and 1 PL, if I get sun and moon and or the magranic axe you have a PL 9 Sacred Immolation while disc barrage is up ya? With Unbending, LOH, Rapid Recovery, Practiced healer and items to reduce the hostile effect + good resolve. believe you could made a good immolater which gives a normally tanky but passive class good AOE offense when/if needed. Also if the immolation is good can also take scion of flame. Thoughts? I mean what else are you doing with the Crusader? He’s already tanking well as a shield user, I guess you could make him a much better auto attacker? If you took Last Word, weapon spec/mastery and mob stance (I already have armored grace) he would swing pretty fast for a tank and connect a lot hitting hard since warhammers have crush/pierce and good PEN despite their lower damage. PS this guy is so tanky plus I have the refund zeal upgrade for sworn enemy (Goldpact Knight for the armor and it’s my POE 1 order with this char) that he often has a lot of zeal to use.

Crushed the Poko Kohara double Engwithin Saint fight this way on POTD. I’ve never seen so much engagement on a tank..there were so many attack rolls that even grazes were hurting (Vigorous Defense saved me) when the undead came out of the walls I charged the rest of the party at the saints as there were only 2 and my scout and monk crushed them while Aloth AOEed everything stuck to the Crusader, then Terrified the entire pack and they got cut to pieces with Ubroken disnegagement crits it was glorious. Xoti layed down the buffs of course. So at least my tactics are in line with what you guys are saying. Since I picked up everyone’s advice on the Wizard Aloth has picked up a lot.

Agreed. Combusting Wounds is good and I definitely under utilize it. In POE1 It was super powerful and it’s still good in POE 2.

Thanks Boer, funny thing is I selected all of those spells..I just did not combo them like you lol i stink! Thanks for the help. I have also been using Terror on my tanks targets and he crits them super hard for disengagement, overbearing guard and terror might make a good combo. The party tank is currently using Reckless Brigandine for action speed which speeds him up but sometimes when I cast terror he will get slowed down because he hits with the disengagement attack and has to re-engage(no big deal really just micro) but what you are suggesting sounds really good too. I am currently building the Unbroken/Goldpact Knight towards the Bronlar's Phalanx build with a shield, currently gladiator sword because it has the highest PEN and gives me deflection (it has exceptional quality right now). For the Crusader I am unsure if to upgrade his stance to mob stance..the damage reduction of defenders stance helps a lot and he engages A LOT of enemies and POTD even with super high DEF you will get hit. In fact I was thinking of Putting the Death Runes helm back on once (if i make it that far) I get the INT buff from Bronlars shield, I currently have the 2 INT Hylea helm on for a bigger Aura and longer buffs.

Hey Fellow POE Gamers, I am currently in a pretty good run (so far) in a POTD/Iroman party run I just beat Motare O Kozi boss at level 9. I wanted some advice on the party comp as I feel my damage is lacking a bit. Party Tank/Offheal: Crusader Unbroken/Goldpact (building towards a Bronlar's Phalanx Build), does his job extremely well even with a large shield and Gladiator Sword the damage to be honest is not bad because he has max PER and good PEN. He will lock down an extreme amount of enemies for a long time and kill a few in the process. This guys saved my butt a TON in the Motare O Kozi boss fight he locked down a ton of dangerous enemies like the Tigers and trolls that would of stomped everyone else and I was able to focus down the boss with my monk and scout. Party Heals/buffs: Xoti: Priest does the job well and debuffs pretty well too. Damage Dealer: Custom SC Monk max damage dealer, the damage is great even at level 9, my only complaint is that even with a Res of 10 on POTD you really have to baby sit her or she will die., not super fast but if she gets focused its lights out. Damage Dealer: Custom Scout Ghostheart (I did not take Maia because I will lose her late game so I just made an effective scout), ranged damage is extremely good, no complaints except she is soft when range hits her but she usually wins those duels. The Last spot is where I have an issue: I am using Aloth SC Wizard: his damage is OK, and his CC ability is good. Honestly so far it seems the best thing to due is to summon Maura's Tentacles so that they do damage debuff and buy keep heat off of my monk. He does have damage dealing spells like Necrotic Lance, Kalkoths Minor Blights and Noxious Burst which are good when they hit. That said I feel like this where my party is weak, Aloth is a good CC Wizard but due to his low might the damage is not great. What would you guys do?

Ya that’s true, I’ve been in spots where I just need more damage from the tank snd SI can definitely provide that I just need to be prepare for the self damage with Resolve, items and Hands of Light or a priest resolve buff when I I get it. SI+ Hands of Light is a lot of Zeal Cost. I think if I take ring of flame (the +10 ACC to fire) plus Max Per, Disc Barrage and the PL lvl snd INT upgrade it will hit a lot of people and hard, maybe scion of flame if I see I’m using it a lot. I like this build on paper. Lets see. Maybe @Boeroercan run a simulation for me

Ya true. I’ve been mowed down by mass range fire at lvl 9 with like 100 plus deflection. So you are right. for the attributes I’m thinking good might MAX Per and good Resolve, flat INT because using those items and the shields skill to raise it high. maybe I’m wrong here but if you want to attempt SI like i do I’ll need a good Res score before items. This build would be good skipping it as a party tank but I’m attempting to get some damage out of it (maybe I shouldn’t) The melee autos aren’t bad but they are too slow. If you don’t go SI you can skip RES maybe since you have a lot of deflection already? now if I could only last long enough on my Ironman run/POTD to full flesh out the build. I’m avoiding like the plague any fight until like level 10 lol. On Maje Island I skipped every fight save the spirit fight before the adra pillar lol. I’m not using any BBs and playing Berath and Skans Challenge. Until I have a party Rez I’m terrified. Those Gore’s by the Boars are so RNG. Even with a max deflection guy they have a 50% of landing. And if you miss the interrupt or get hit while healers are on recovery it’s lights out. I owned the crystal spider with an antidote lol

That’s definitely what I was going for. Since it’s a party tank and I usually run a priest I could probably go Exalted Endurance for more regen since I’ll have Devotions of the Faithful, although it’s temporary and ZF is always. I also you think you would need refreshing defense with all that deflection? Solo you probably would but I’m not sure this would work solo, the offense isn’t good enough (Definitely not mega bosses, you would need refreshing defense to even attempt lol and maybe brand enemy for a mega boss and hope you outlast it I guess.) the weapon isn’t bad, you could use maybe that engagement hammer and take mob stance to be more reactive/faster but I was thinking maybe defender stance for better dmg reduction. Although my INT helmet would be out because I’d probably want the death runes helm if I went defender stance. So 2 less INT.

What if you used this shield with a Fighter/Fighter Multi and kept your INT at 10, this would free you up for other stats. But you wouldn’t have a high INT until later in the game. Early in the game you could talk the bird pet that gives you +1 INT and Hylia’s Helm that would give you+2 INT. That nets you a respectable INT. With tactical Barrage you would get more INT but don’t fire it off until you engage and get the Smart buff from the shield. Atrribute Wise on POTD you would need MAX per IMO to counter large shield malus + disc barrage would ensure that even late game you could hit stuff. Add in Gladiator sword for more deflection and this looks cool and could be an effective party tank. And you could hit stuff consistently. You could have a huge AOE on Sacred Immolation with strong might or if you went say swashbuckler you could riposte a ton. Thoughts?

I figured. Thanks all for the input.

Im pretty sure in turn based they aggro even with no AOE spell casted. In RtwP they have never aggro unless I cast some chill fog or something (makes sense to me).

Hey do you guys know if they ever fixed that bug where guards aggro when you attempt the bounty in Neketaka etc. I was going to try turn based but heard it still had a few bugs. That was one of them that I remember.

Nothing better, good to hear PS Whats the specs on your new PC? I have a pretty beast rig and deadfire runs extremely well save for like once in a while I will get a micro stutter that has me go from 60 FPS to 40 FPS. It goes away though and does not happen enough to bother me but I have neve been able to fully get rid of the micro stutter. I have a suspicion it is my Nvidia, Intel combo.

Got ya, makes sense.

PS the inspiration for the SI Crusader build came from this comment credit @Boeroer" For a solo run I think I would have tried Unbroken/Goldpact with Monastic uT and Tuotilo's Palm. Sworn Rival with Gilded Enmity is very cheap and it would stack with the Unbroken's +1 AR. +6 AR + Paladin's AR passives is awesome imo. With high RES, Ring of the Solitary Wanderer and Strand of Favor Sacred Immolation's self damage part becomes really short. I could get it down to two ticks often enough - which was no big deal. That makes Sacred Immolation much more useful imo but of course you have to pay for the high RES in other places" This was meant for a solo build, so maybe thats where my SI Crusader build is MEH. A Crusader will more than likely need SI and scrolls for AOE dmg if solo. If it in a party maybe SI is just zeal cost heavy.

@Raven Darkholme Maybe I just have not played it as much, or I just need to adapt. my tactic in POE1 was to stack ACC buffs (you could do that in POE1 AKA Priest buffs lol) and the fit then damage into that window. That is harder to do in Deadfire. SC Paladin is definitely not as useful other than PLs for SI, Divine Retribution and Light of Pure Zeal which is a great emergency button heal and trivializes the Dragon in Beast of Winter ( on POTD difficulty, I one shot him pretty much it was like 2 second fight lol). Anyway I like these talks: The Crusader, I am starting to think the zeal cost maybe too much to run around with an SI build....I like the MC to be a tank and up front but maybe doing with with a shield on a weapon is over kill on a crusader and you need damage out of him?

Ya true and I have definitely looked it into your mod and plan to install it. I was just out of the POE game for a while due to raid Main Tanking in World of Warcraft Classic (for the entirety of it, glad its over lol). I agree with you the Paladin is unique in that its not some Fighter/Cleric mix but has its own thing as tank/commander support (like the Warlord in DnD? I think?) any ya its cool but the zeal costs stink and late down in the tree they have some powerful abilities but its not many. That said I beat the game vanilla with no mods long ago so would like to try one more time before installing your mod (which i want to do !) So going down this road...Do I abandon the Crusader SI build? maybe its not what I think it is due to zeal cost and if you want to go Crusader you just grab a two hander or Duel wield and do damage with cheap resource cost abilities like FoD and Discipline Barrage relying on your passives?....or just tank as a Engagement anchor...the problem with Crusader as an engagement guy/tank is that well its all he/she can do if something goes wrong and the party dies you are dead by yourself because you cant do enough damage. If I go the SC Paladin route again what would the attributes look like for you guys? I did it once but felt the attributes were suboptimal. I went 15 Might, 15 Int, 15 RES and 13 Con (my old POE 1 rule of 5,5,5,3) and played it as a front line tank with AOE damage through SI, basically how you played it in POE 1 (no quick switch Arbalest FoD like in POE 1though). But it seems that POTD in Deadfire is A LOT HARDER, like cartoonish hard sometimes (dont get me started on the arcadey mega bosses lol). You get random mobs in encounters on POTD that sometimes are even weird thematically....like double fire Naga or some weird stuff like that. I feel like this time in POTD (from my deadfire completion experiences) you have to min max a lot more for the main character to carry the weight at their designed role or maybe I am just worse at this game then POE 1. I only played PoTD/Ironman in POE 1 and won most of the time. I have only had TWO successful POTD/Ironman runs in deadfire... PS its great to talk to the old gang again

@Raven DarkholmeI saw Boer and Hound talking about Crusader builds and saw Boer mention a solo Goldpact Knight/Unbroken build based on the unarmed attack buckler (Tutillo's Palm), the monk training unarmed training ability and SI. It's basically an engagement tank who anchors melee enemies and then blows them up with SI, at the same time you are duel wielding a weapon (or your fist) and a shield with good speed since you are Duel wielding giving you faster reactivity for lay on hands etc and pretty good melee ability for a tank. As Eric said maybe the zeal cost is too much though? At max level how much zeal will I have to throw out a Sworn Enemy for AR (GP Knight) and a Lay on hands for the self damage? The zeal cost does seem to be a lot now that we talk about it.

@Elric GaladI think that is the biggest hit on the build. Due to zeal cost maybe its only worth on an SC Paladin with Divine Retribution. I did ONE play through as an SC Paladin with SI and the guy 1000% massacred everything with SI and FoD. But I cheesed chanter summons and Divine retribution to get constant zeal. He was good with a party on POTD and was second in damage after a Mindstalker. I never played an SC Paladin again because I thought it was ridiculous to use a party slot just to feed the Paladin zeal lol It is literally THE ONLY REASON TO SC Paladin..and I have always felt that Deadfire let me down with my fav class turning it basically into a multiclass only class . Call me rigid but if I want to play a Paladin, I want to play a damn Paladin lmao. PS off topic but what i mentioned above about the SC Paladin and it not being the best as a SC is why I did not want multiclass lol I felt Obsidian would lose focus on developing the classes individually andI IMO they did. Josh mentions in an interview that he felt they fell short on many SC martial classes. I liked the POE 1 classes better. You play your class and dip into minor abilities of other classes.