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Desperately Need To reset my character's feats


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9 replies to this topic

#1
rill15

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I just checked The new version of Seelah now has a Divine skill using CHA.
And my Seelah boosts her WIS instead of CHA, because Divine was originally WIS based.
(Though I'm happy for the change, anyway in Pathfinder RPG, the paladin uses CHA for spells)

I just don't want to delete my character and start up whole new journey just for making thing better for new option.

Maybe character feat reset would be a good bargain for people just like me, isn't it?
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#2
SystemShaper

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I just checked The new version of Seelah now has a Divine skill using CHA.
And my Seelah boosts her WIS instead of CHA, because Divine was originally WIS based.
(Though I'm happy for the change, anyway in Pathfinder RPG, the paladin uses CHA for spells)

I just don't want to delete my character and start up whole new journey just for making thing better for new option.

Maybe character feat reset would be a good bargain for people just like me, isn't it?

 

I hear ya, I'm in the exact same bind myself after boosting her wisdom. Most characters only have one primary skill so it's easy to max and still have some points to throw around on misc stuff. But every point counts for Seelah as she tries to balance casting and melee. I'm always a fan of a reset option. I'm sure that's a pain to program and would cause lots of bugs but it would definitely sell well in the store if they ever put one together.



#3
Yewstance

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There's no reset option, and I can assure you the three main reasons for that are thus:

 

1. Reset options limit re-playability with the same character, since you'll never make another copy of a character to try a different build if you can do it on the fly.

 

2. Balancing options. Oh, this scenario will have a bunch of undead henchmen and villains? Let's specialize in my anti-undead feats...

 

3. It would contradict the rules of the board game. In the board game, once you choose a feat, that's final, which has been a conscious decision (partially for the above reasons) which the designers have defended on several occasions, and perhaps would be unhappy to hear the digital version diverge from.

 

Sorry, but you'll have to make a new Seelah. It sounds like you're not very far into the story, though, to be fair.


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#4
rill15

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There's no reset option, and I can assure you the three main reasons for that are thus:

 

1. Reset options limit re-playability with the same character, since you'll never make another copy of a character to try a different build if you can do it on the fly.

 

2. Balancing options. Oh, this scenario will have a bunch of undead henchmen and villains? Let's specialize in my anti-undead feats...

 

3. It would contradict the rules of the board game. In the board game, once you choose a feat, that's final, which has been a conscious decision (partially for the above reasons) which the designers have defended on several occasions, and perhaps would be unhappy to hear the digital version diverge from.

 

Sorry, but you'll have to make a new Seelah. It sounds like you're not very far into the story, though, to be fair.

 

1. I think re-playability shoulb be an option, not the obligatory one.

and if you made a character and improve it with right build(any build you actually want),

there is also no reason to make a new character, just same, there is no re-playability.

and I think playing game just for rebuild the stats is just bunch of wasting time, not fulfilling the concept of re-playability.

 

2. Rebuilding stats would need golds maybe. and I think there are not many people who would cost golds just to adjust their characters to beat the scenario.

(anyway, you would earn golds maximum at 200~, and rebuilding would be much expensive than 200 golds)

 

3. In boardgame, it may be definitely against the rules to rebuild the stats. but as you said that is just a rule.

If you want to cancel it, it would be canceled. Because keeping the rules is at your hand, not at the server or network system.

And there is no such equipment sets in physical boardgame, so digital copy has reasonable excuse for making "rebuilding stats".

 

 

Anyway, the important part is, after I posted this issue, the developers shared the future updates and they're considering Rebuilding option positively.

So I'm very happy to wait the content.

Besides, my Seelah completed the whole RotR Adventure Pass, and I also completed rebuilding Seelah.

It was very long journey, and I earned a lots of golds through this process(because I chose legendary difficulties, just for compensating my time).

And It was not pleasant experience... and I have another characters which also need to be rebuilt.


Edited by rill15, 16 June 2017 - 07:13 PM.


#5
Raist1in

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No, No, No! This is bulls@it!

Honestly, despite the fact that such an option sounds super convenient for the player, it will ruin the game.

Devs should keep an eye on the community's thoughts... not follow them. This leads to the dark side. Basically, you've made a mistake and now you're asking the developers to change the game to help you out? Are you serious?

What you're asking for is a game killer!

What's the point to play a second time, if I can just reset all the feats? Then what? Go straight to the last fight to see how it works out? Then what? Then I loose all Interest.

The game would "live" way longer, if there is no feat reset option implemented. Period. People have to be constantly motivated in order to continue playing. Even Life itself is all about making choices and mistakes.

P.S. Leveling your new party all over is a piece of cake, really. And that's exactly what this game is about - Leveling up a party. You may even add a new character to your existing high lvl party to rush this rookie through the game. It'd be even faster.

P.P.S. I rest my case. I desperately hope Devs see the point.

Edited by Raist1in, 16 June 2017 - 08:19 PM.

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#6
rill15

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No, No, No! This is bulls@it!

Honestly, despite the fact that such an option sounds super convenient for the player, it will ruin the game.

Devs should keep an eye on the community's thoughts... not follow them. This leads to the dark side. Basically, you've made a mistake and now you're asking the developers to change the game to help you out? Are you serious?

What you're asking for is a game killer!

What's the point to play a second time, if I can just reset all the feats? Then what? Go straight to the last fight to see how it works out? Then what? Then I loose all Interest.

The game would "live" way longer, if there is no feat reset option implemented. Period. People have to be constantly motivated in order to continue playing. Even Life itself is all about making choices and mistakes.

P.S. Leveling your new party all over is a piece of cake, really. And that's exactly what this game is about - Leveling up a party. You may even add a new character to your existing high lvl party to rush this rookie through the game. It'd be even faster.

P.P.S. I rest my case. I desperately hope Devs see the point.

 

Well, it's different to people to people, personally through this experience(levelling up again because just I bought alt. Seelah), I lose my interest.

 

If the wrong decision for progressing characters is the way to people play again and again, that is total ruined game design, personally I thought.

 

How about if someone made their character, progress it through Adventure Path, finally finish their characters' levelling, and now it's totally satisfied.

Then what? Nothing to play again?

And only if you made a mistake, there is something to do?

 

Yes, levelling new party is not that difficult. You just need to prepare them with proper gear(which the original character had), and conjoin them with

progressed characters.

But that is the problem.

It's not that difficult, not that challenging. You just need hours to make it up to unsatisfactory character. and then what?

You just realize that you waste times to compensate self-satisfaction while other players who are lucky or smart, just play less time than you.(and share same results)

 

Still I admit that some other players are happy to play that thing, but some other are not. but still they just can ignore the option for re-stat.

 

From different point of view, re-stat could make people skip boring parts and play with their freshly-born character in the game.

 

And most of all, people seem to forget the situation of character which don't complete the RotR yet, like Adventure Path 3 or 4.

Imagine when your party just complete the last scenario, and realize that you pick the wrong decisions for some characters.

Probably you need to make a new party, and start again from the very beginning of the Brigandoom! while others just progress to the next scenario.

I don't think it's worth it.



#7
zeroth_hour

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If the wrong decision for progressing characters is the way to people play again and again, that is total ruined game design, personally I thought.

 

 

Most games made in the 80s and 90s were like that.  One of the characteristics of (a lot of) Roguelikes is that consequences are heavy (like permadeath), and that genre isn't dying soon either.  Visual novels can't even exist without consequential mechanisms.

 

"Ruined game design" is more trying to assert a fact rather than an opinion, but I'll assume you meant that you don't like such mechanisms.  Which is fair.  Games can be good, even great with such consequential mechanisms.  Games can be good, even great, without such mechanisms.  You don't have to like them.

 

It really depends on your motivation for playing is though.  If you want to wade through the story (and Obsidian has made the story better than the card game has, though to really go through the story you'd have to play the tabletop RPG version of RotR), these types of mechanisms aren't bad.  If your motivation for playing is to get all the loots, things like the stash and respeccing, etc are great since you really want to get to the looting part anyway.  If your motivation is to see how to solve these "puzzles" efficiently, then you probably won't like things like the stash and respeccing, because they make solving the "puzzle" easier (or reduce the consequences of mistakes).


Edited by zeroth_hour, 17 June 2017 - 06:24 PM.

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#8
Yewstance

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The key, as zeroth_hour pointed out, is that character respeccing (and the Stash feature, really) "Reduce the consequences of mistakes". Whether that is good or bad game design is highly subjective, and depends on WHY you play a game. Whole genres of games - Roguelikes, Rogue-lites, etc - are built on "high consequence" gameplay. Other popular titles are closely INSPIRED by high consequence gameplay, whether or not they actually are - Dark Souls comes to mind, or a number of games with 'hardcore' modes, such as numerous hack-and-slash titles. Others are effectively no consequence, generally leaning on frequent checkpointing (though 'no consequence' doesn't actually mean 'easy' - see VVVVVV or other high-difficulty platformers) and/or ability to undo/adapt decisions.

 

However, I stand by my statement that the original board game is supposed to have a high consequence for mistakes. Character death is permanent, making players think twice before pushing to win a scenario despite dwindling resources. Character feats are permanent, encouraging players to closely understand how their characters may or may not change with time or cards. 



#9
Ethics Gradient

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I'm of a split mind on this debate.  I agree with much of what Yewstance said above.  The original tabletop game had a decent balance to it, and permadeath and feat progression made you think very carefully about your next move.

 

But that being said, the digital game (while nominally the same), is simply played differently by users.  Daily challenges, multiple difficulties, gold and treasure encourage that the game be replayed in ways that weren't around in the physical edition.  Rather than finishing each scenario once, you can now go back, skip around, farm cards, and do whatever you want to further explore the game.

 

I view potential respecs somewhat similarly to the implementation of the stash.  Previous app mechanisms allowed for users to trade between parties to hold onto cards.  It was cumbersome but doable; and the stash simplified existing user behavior.

 

Respeccing a character is also in that "cumbersome but doable" category.  Transfer as many cards as you can to a fresh character, and then blast through only the scenarios that reward feats with your experienced party.

 

I'm not saying every player whim should be added to the game (or free), but even implementing something like character respecs at 500 Gold per point would just streamline the present process of replaying scenarios to respec.

 

The app already provides a frustrating workaround for players.  Yes, true respeccing would make things easier, but it would also make things less annoying.  In the end it is non-competitive adventure solitaire; if a player wants to step outside the bounds of the tabletop rules, it isn't going to ruin my personal enjoyment.


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#10
SystemShaper

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There are many successful and enjoyable games on both sides of the equation, so this is just a matter of player preferences. So all of the below is just my perspective:

 

For my playstyle, a respec option makes the game more fun. I love tweaking my character build and refining it to be as efficient and optimal as possible. But having to replay most of the game just to move a +1 stat around? That's just a grind to me.

 

As for high consequence gameplay, I personally don't feel it's a good match for games like this where chance and dice rolls are a big factor. If I'm playing Hoplite or a similar rogue-like perma-death game, if I die it's because I made the wrong move, and I could have made a different decision and kept going. In PACG I might've made the most optimal decision I could with the information I knew, and just lose due to unlucky dice rolls or deck order. Simply losing the scenario and having to start over (or having to spend a decent chunk of gold to respec) seems like a reasonable level of consequence to me for this game.

 

Also, my preferred solution for continued play is MORE CONTENT, not replaying the same content with essentially the same character with a minor change. We can already get plenty of play out of existing content via playing it with multiple classes, beyond that it just gets tiring.

 

happy gaming to all!


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