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Should the EU become the United States of Europe? What do you think?

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Poll: United States of Europe? (41 member(s) have cast votes)

Should the EU become one single nation?

  1. Yes, it should (7 votes [17.07%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.07%

  2. Yes, but EU members who don't want to participate should still be part of the EU as it exists now (2 votes [4.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.88%

  3. No, not right now (1 votes [2.44%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.44%

  4. No, the EU members should become closer to each other but not a single nation (9 votes [21.95%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.95%

  5. No, I oppose the idea of a EU nation (12 votes [29.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.27%

  6. No, and I don't support the EU in the first place (10 votes [24.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 24.39%

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#41
BruceVC

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So this is an idea that I find extremely interesting, and I really want to see what you guys think. Please do give reasons in the comment section. Thanks for any shared opinions :)

I am a huge supporter of Germany and Merkel and how Germany after WW2 has been able to recreate its identity and become very significant again. And it did this  not through military superiority but hard work and economic transformation.

 

Lol, your German economic "miracle" is  just using of Jewish Nazi gold.
https://en.wikipedia...ki/Flick_family
https://en.wikipedia...ki/Flick_affair
https://en.wikipedia...i/Deutsche_Bank
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-11081786
http://www.bbc.com/n...siness-34358783
http://www.dailymail...lave-labor.html

etc.
 
Yep, proscriptions, slave labor and plundering of conquered lands is so profitable.

 

Oby those links are history, they are irrelevant to what Germany is nowadays and all the positive it does

 

This appears to be something you Russians dont understand, your past doesn't define you and I would encourage you to think more about real challenges in the year 2016 and stop worrying about the past

 

This is one of the main reasons your economy is such a mess, misplaced attempts to " restore the great Russian bear  "  



#42
Chilloutman

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Okay, lets go back then because I want to understand what your criticism is

What exactly is your issue with the institutions of the EU ? You say agriculture....is that is?

I think I already explain it multiple times even to you and my above posts (not reply to you) should give you some idea.

I kinda know already answer but let me still ask it:

In your country its traditional to share meal with your neighbour
Someone in other country decided thats against hygiene standards and thus forbidden
they have 50M votes, your country have 5M votes

are you ok that people from country you don't live in decide how you should interact with your neighbour?

But in the USE, it would be one country. That is how democracy works
Besides, the Germans are not some evil elite seeking control, there is political diversity here add well.people on Germany will also vote against the meat law


No its not Germans ofcourse, but lets be realistic - everyone seeks to gain something. Why do you think that germany have so many businesses in east europe? Because its cheaper to create wealth there and spend it in germany. Do you think its in German interest to have east Europe same wealth as Germany? Don't be foolish

#43
Ben No.3

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I'm sorry but... Where's your answer?
EDIT nevermind my bad

Edited by Ben No.3, 06 October 2016 - 05:14 AM.


#44
Ben No.3

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Okay, lets go back then because I want to understand what your criticism is

What exactly is your issue with the institutions of the EU ? You say agriculture....is that is?

I think I already explain it multiple times even to you and my above posts (not reply to you) should give you some idea.

I kinda know already answer but let me still ask it:

In your country its traditional to share meal with your neighbour
Someone in other country decided thats against hygiene standards and thus forbidden
they have 50M votes, your country have 5M votes

are you ok that people from country you don't live in decide how you should interact with your neighbour?
But in the USE, it would be one country. That is how democracy works
Besides, the Germans are not some evil elite seeking control, there is political diversity here add well.people on Germany will also vote against the meat law
No its not Germans ofcourse, but lets be realistic - everyone seeks to gain something. Why do you think that germany have so many businesses in east europe? Because its cheaper to create wealth there and spend it in germany. Do you think its in German interest to have east Europe same wealth as Germany? Don't be foolish

But that is exactly what a unified Europe would solve, they HAD to care because it's one country

#45
Chilloutman

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But that is exactly what a unified Europe would solve, they HAD to care because it's one country


You really believe that by some magic all employers across EU would start paying same salaries, there would be same level of social state without looking at economic power of those countries? Do you really think that it would not destroy economies of such countries? and of course I am not only talking about getting it on Germany level, but to support it, at same time German salaries to go down? There would be riots everywhere...

#46
obyknven

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So this is an idea that I find extremely interesting, and I really want to see what you guys think. Please do give reasons in the comment section. Thanks for any shared opinions :)

I am a huge supporter of Germany and Merkel and how Germany after WW2 has been able to recreate its identity and become very significant again. And it did this  not through military superiority but hard work and economic transformation.

Lol, your German economic "miracle" is  just using of Jewish Nazi gold.
https://en.wikipedia...ki/Flick_family
https://en.wikipedia...ki/Flick_affair
https://en.wikipedia...i/Deutsche_Bank
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-11081786
http://www.bbc.com/n...siness-34358783
http://www.dailymail...lave-labor.html

etc.
 
Yep, proscriptions, slave labor and plundering of conquered lands is so profitable.

Oby those links are history, they are irrelevant to what Germany is nowadays and all the positive it does
 
This appears to be something you Russians dont understand, your past doesn't define you and I would encourage you to think more about real challenges in the year 2016 and stop worrying about the past
 
This is one of the main reasons your economy is such a mess, misplaced attempts to " restore the great Russian bear  "

History lol. These money\funds is not history. Foundation of German economical "miracle" is Nazi warcrimes, without they no modern Germany/EU even exist (for example  almost all modern German roads has been build by slaves during Hitler's time ). Don't make mistake - i don't criticise Germans for it - wars is extremely profitable - is just objective reality. Actually Russia  do want make some such economically reasoned wars also - even war against such beggar-country as Ukraine deliver so much profit for us (cheap Ukrainian migrants working for food in Siberia, land grab, population grab + 2M, oil resources grab, plants/factories grab ). Just imagine how profitable can be war against prospered Eropean states (Sweden for example) in comparsion with this.

#47
Ben No.3

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So this is an idea that I find extremely interesting, and I really want to see what you guys think. Please do give reasons in the comment section. Thanks for any shared opinions :)

I am a huge supporter of Germany and Merkel and how Germany after WW2 has been able to recreate its identity and become very significant again. And it did this not through military superiority but hard work and economic transformation.
Lol, your German economic "miracle" is just using of Jewish Nazi gold.
https://en.wikipedia...ki/Flick_family
https://en.wikipedia...ki/Flick_affair
https://en.wikipedia...i/Deutsche_Bank
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-11081786
http://www.bbc.com/n...siness-34358783
http://www.dailymail...lave-labor.html

etc.

Yep, proscriptions, slave labor and plundering of conquered lands is so profitable.
Oby those links are history, they are irrelevant to what Germany is nowadays and all the positive it does

This appears to be something you Russians dont understand, your past doesn't define you and I would encourage you to think more about real challenges in the year 2016 and stop worrying about the past

"

Thank you!
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#48
Meshugger

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"It's the current year!"-meme will inevitably come and bite people in the ass.



#49
Ben No.3

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But that is exactly what a unified Europe would solve, they HAD to care because it's one country

You really believe that by some magic all employers across EU would start paying same salaries, there would be same level of social state without looking at economic power of those countries? Do you really think that it would not destroy economies of such countries? and of course I am not only talking about getting it on Germany level, but to support it, at same time German salaries to go down? There would be riots everywhere...
No, I'm saying a unified Europe will solve the problems the euro created, and it will definitely give a boost to ALL its members. BTW yes the most Germans would help... We have good welfare, good free health care, good free education...

Edited by Ben No.3, 06 October 2016 - 05:36 AM.


#50
Chilloutman

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But that is exactly what a unified Europe would solve, they HAD to care because it's one country

You really believe that by some magic all employers across EU would start paying same salaries, there would be same level of social state without looking at economic power of those countries? Do you really think that it would not destroy economies of such countries? and of course I am not only talking about getting it on Germany level, but to support it, at same time German salaries to go down? There would be riots everywhere...

No, I'm saying a unified Europe will solve the problems the euro created, and it will definitely give a boost to ALL its members. BTW yes the Germans would help... We have good welfare, good free health care, good free education...


Ok I got my answer - you are not imperialist, you are naive :)

#51
Ben No.3

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But that is exactly what a unified Europe would solve, they HAD to care because it's one country

You really believe that by some magic all employers across EU would start paying same salaries, there would be same level of social state without looking at economic power of those countries? Do you really think that it would not destroy economies of such countries? and of course I am not only talking about getting it on Germany level, but to support it, at same time German salaries to go down? There would be riots everywhere...
No, I'm saying a unified Europe will solve the problems the euro created, and it will definitely give a boost to ALL its members. BTW yes the Germans would help... We have good welfare, good free health care, good free education...
Ok I got my answer - you are not imperialist, you are naive :)
Nope, just a hopeless idealist

#52
Ben No.3

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Which is pretty close

#53
Ben No.3

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But give me one reason why the USE should not be eager to help its economically weak regions. One reason that is not "Germans" (cause in Germany, we do)

Edited by Ben No.3, 06 October 2016 - 05:40 AM.


#54
Chilloutman

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But give me one reason why the USE should not be eager to help its economically weak regions. One reason that is not "Germans" (cause in Germany, we do)


I am just telling you, and no its not only germany, french would be probably same. it would cost huge amounts of money only on welfare, your utopistic view where politicians from wealthy nations openly admit that they will pay poor nations welfare by reducing it to own citizens is funny - they would not be elected again

#55
Ben No.3

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But give me one reason why the USE should not be eager to help its economically weak regions. One reason that is not "Germans" (cause in Germany, we do)

I am just telling you, and no its not only germany, french would be probably same. it would cost huge amounts of money only on welfare, your utopistic view where politicians from wealthy nations openly admit that they will pay poor nations welfare by reducing it to own citizens is funny - they would not be elected again

If Europe is one country, they'd be paying welfare to their own poor citizens, which is exactly what is happening right now in Germany. It comes with high taxes for those who have money, but it works

#56
obyknven

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Oby those links are history, they are irrelevant to what Germany is nowadays and all the positive it does

This appears to be something you Russians dont understand, your past doesn't define you and I would encourage you to think more about real challenges in the year 2016 and stop worrying about the past

"


Thank you!

 


tumblr_lmputme3co1qa6q7k_large.jpg

BruceVC alter ego detected. Du sprechen sie Deutsch?

 



#57
Ben No.3

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So I ask you once again: why not?

#58
Nonek

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Trying to hold all of those ancient nations together, and meld so many wildly different ethics and cultures into one isn't going to be easy, and personally I can't really see the point. Then again, that's your decision and not an Englishmans business.

 

Thank the Lord Allmighty.

 

P.S. Don't go mad and make us have to put a bit of stick about again.


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#59
Chilloutman

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So I ask you once again: why not?


well as you didn't counter any of my argument I will play along and tell you - Yes I want Euronation where there is rainbow everyday without rain and everyone is riding pink ponies :)

#60
Ben No.3

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So I ask you once again: why not?

well as you didn't counter any of my argument I will play along and tell you - Yes I want Euronation where there is rainbow everyday without rain and everyone is riding pink ponies :)
Rainbows are nice indeed, but okay let me repeat.

It is true that no politician who gave free money to other poorer countries citizens would not get reelected. I agree completely with you on that. It is unfair, but people are awful.
But if Europe was a single country, there would be no poorer countries, just poor citizens. Which is entirely different. I cannot speak for France, but in Germany, a welfare system run by government sponsored by high middle/upper middle/upper class taxes is up and running for years.

Yes, it is unlikely. But this could actually work. It is the best hope we have...

Edited by Ben No.3, 06 October 2016 - 06:19 AM.






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