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... need 6 phrases to come.

You start combat with a bunch of phrases now. A high level Chanter will either be able to cast it straight away it do so after on or two chants. Once the invocation is cast it builds up phrases in addition to your normal chants so keeping it up is easy (is got a big duration anyway).

 

So I didn't say this is much of a downside to it. Honestly I think it's a most powerful ability in the game right now. Watching VictorCreed using it to spam Charge is just insane (Charge is also kinda broken as it full attacks everyone on the path which, when combined with cleaving stance, leads to rapid death).

 

The starting phrases seem kind of strange to me right now, sometimes I start with 7 phrases, sometimes with 6,

sometimes I can chain cast it out of combat to spot traps, sometimes it will not regen back up to 7 and I can't recast it.

But even if you start combat with "only" 6 phrases it doesn't take that long to get it to 7.

 

I'm atm trying to figure out which class could be more broken than fighter with it, since it needs to be a resource hungry class, wizard seems pretty crazy with meteor shower (please keep in mind the invocation not only regains resources but also empowers you for the whole 60 secs duration )

 

Chanters start combat with phrases equal to the cost of their highest invocation (which includes cost penalties, e.g. troubador+1).  

 

This is why it is useful to pick up the most expensive invocation available in your tree, even if it's not not something you intend to use, because it provides the passive benefit of having more starting phrases.  

 

You regen up to your maximum starting phrases again after combat.  If you jump into the next combat too soon you might not be at maximum when combat starts, but otherwise you will always have enough phrases to cast your most expensive inv.  

 

I don't think you read my post.

Phrases are not constantly the same on my level 20 chanter, with an invocation which costs 7 phrases.

I kind of feel like repeating the rest of my post is moot.

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In my experience on Troubadour I dont start with phrases equal to my highest costing Invocation. As I have the Invocation being discussed in this thread, and seem to always start at 4, and it costs 6 phrases. Also, an early level Troubadour starts with 3 phrases generated. So you have to wait a minimum of 3 seconds to cast your first invocation. Maybe it's different from Subclass to subclass, but I can't say.

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... need 6 phrases to come.

You start combat with a bunch of phrases now. A high level Chanter will either be able to cast it straight away it do so after on or two chants. Once the invocation is cast it builds up phrases in addition to your normal chants so keeping it up is easy (is got a big duration anyway).

 

So I didn't say this is much of a downside to it. Honestly I think it's a most powerful ability in the game right now. Watching VictorCreed using it to spam Charge is just insane (Charge is also kinda broken as it full attacks everyone on the path which, when combined with cleaving stance, leads to rapid death).

 

The starting phrases seem kind of strange to me right now, sometimes I start with 7 phrases, sometimes with 6,

sometimes I can chain cast it out of combat to spot traps, sometimes it will not regen back up to 7 and I can't recast it.

But even if you start combat with "only" 6 phrases it doesn't take that long to get it to 7.

 

I'm atm trying to figure out which class could be more broken than fighter with it, since it needs to be a resource hungry class, wizard seems pretty crazy with meteor shower (please keep in mind the invocation not only regains resources but also empowers you for the whole 60 secs duration )

 

Chanters start combat with phrases equal to the cost of their highest invocation (which includes cost penalties, e.g. troubador+1).  

 

This is why it is useful to pick up the most expensive invocation available in your tree, even if it's not not something you intend to use, because it provides the passive benefit of having more starting phrases.  

 

You regen up to your maximum starting phrases again after combat.  If you jump into the next combat too soon you might not be at maximum when combat starts, but otherwise you will always have enough phrases to cast your most expensive inv.  

 

I don't think you read my post.

Phrases are not constantly the same on my level 20 chanter, with an invocation which costs 7 phrases.

I kind of feel like repeating the rest of my post is moot.

 

 

Must be a bug or some kind of confusion, because my 2 max chanters ALWAYS have 6 or 7 phrases respectively (beckoner and troubador) at the start of a fresh combat.  Are you using some kind of mod that affects class tables or something?  

 

 

In my experience on Troubadour I dont start with phrases equal to my highest costing Invocation. As I have the Invocation being discussed in this thread, and seem to always start at 4, and it costs 6 phrases. Also, an early level Troubadour starts with 3 phrases generated. So you have to wait a minimum of 3 seconds to cast your first invocation. Maybe it's different from Subclass to subclass, but I can't say.

 

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I don't use any mod I'm quite certain it is glitchy, since it not only switches between 6 or 7 phrases at combat start, but also between 7 and 0 phrases out of combat. (and when it is 7 phrases it keeps refilling if I use it for trap detection)

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It for sure could be a bug. It's hard to say.

 

I have never recieved 4 phrases at the beginning of combat when level 1 on Troubadour, though. It takes a couple levels before it starts getting 4 phrases at the onset of combat. I've had a fair few restarts too. I cant remember if you start getting 4 phrases at level 2 or 3.

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The point is this phrase will give caster one each lvl of spell cast now... for martial class this is ok..

 

How exactly is this ok? a free charge every 6 sec is ok? It's completely broken for martial classes too. Feel free to check Victor Creed's troubadour/fighter video for illustration.

 

And it doesn't give 1 spell of each level if that's what you thought. It gives exactly 1 spell. If anything, 1 spell is a smaller % of power pool for casters than for martial classes. But it's still freaking OP. It's not like you can cast spells at much faster rate anyway.

Edited by MadDemiurg
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Yeah, Tyranny did it with their Siren Character which used the Chanter mechanics and it carried over here. It gives you one thing to do before auto attacking for a bit waiting for Phrases to build back up on a single classed Chanter.

 

I just think Chanters have a few OP Chants and Invocations that is the real issue. Most of them are high level, but they are there.

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It's not like regaining discipline of zeal every 3 sec is much less broken :).

 

I would even remove the passives that restore resources on kill tbh.

Really? What abilities make the paladin so OP? Sacred immolation?  :lol:

 

How about being immune to death on LoH (unlimited with this invocation) and +gazillion to all defenses from faith and conviction. You don't need to do a lot of damage if you can't die. Btw you can spam Sacred immolation all you want if you can't die anyway :p.

 

Death immunity looks good only on paper because the paladin doesn't need it to stay alive - a potion or a simple heal does the same thing. If it had 20-30s base duration maybe you could make a case... 

 

20-30s base duration would be broken beyond belief as it easily goes into 40-60+ sec with the right build. And maybe you won't normally need it - but it's because the game is too freaking easy for the most part right now. If the character is basically unkillable it's about as OP as it gets.

 

Btw, where's the logic about saying it's useless and then complaining about Sacred Immolation. If Sacred immolation is bad because it kills you, but you can't die, suddenly both are not useless.

 

5s of immunity doesn't make you unkillable, sorry. And like I said, if you have to use it only once in a while then a simple potion does the same thing.

Spamming LoH to stay alive or chugging potions is the same thing really. Even if you manage to survive it doesn't mean SI becomes suddenly viable - simply because the gains are not worth the effort.

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https://imgur.com/a/EOAqRkV

 

Oh look, it's more than 5 sec! (far from min/maxed). And since when 300+ aoe damage is "not worth it". I guess we have different standards of "worth it" since nuking the whole encounter on your own is very much worth it in my book.

 

 

(Not that I think SI is fine on its own, it can definitely use a buff, but there are also things that could use a nerf)

 

You will still die of CCed, unless everyone in your team can do death immune LoH.

It's not like paladins are nigh immune to CC anyway.

Edited by MadDemiurg
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Endless lay on hands is the opposite of “too much effort”. Just set up the AI script to run it in loop, leave and get a cup of coffee, come back and see corpses littering the floor. No need to worry about defense buffs, or armor, or spell targeting, positioning, items, crafting, health, etc.

Edited by Braven
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the brilliant inspiration is simply bonkers beyond compare.

the only rational explaination is that "...they all know their path" was made on a build where brilliant inspiration did something else, then brilliant was changed to the current buff and the chant wasnt adjusted.

in my opinion brilliant should just add a flat +1 powerlevel instead of the recource regeneration, then it would be fine. as long as any amount of recource regeneration stays, "...light of dawn", which is powerlevel 9, has the same exact aoe range and cost one more phrase simply doesnt make any sense. considering caster classes get ohne of every spell level returned, generating 1 flat per rank per cast on a 7 phrases ability is definitely worth a powerlevel 9 slot.

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Brilliant should probably be rebalanced, I'd say make it only a small chance to regain resources like 5% every tick. Still fits the theme and is nice but isn't over the top.

"Wizards do not need to be The Dudes Who Can AoE Nuke You and Gish and Take as Many Hits as a Fighter and Make all Skills Irrelevant Because Magic."

-Josh Sawyer

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