What about atmosphere compared to PoE1?

[Big-Ben]

Seeing as the first game had a plot that involves children being stillborn Pillars 2 would have had to have really gone out of it's way to be darker. Compared to the first game there are obvious dark spots but the overarching everything feels a lot less grim. I mean they could gone full out on the cheese after Eothas destroyed the keep though.

 

Punished Eder, A Farmer Denied his Homeland.

[Sedrefilos]

Here's the thing: babies born without soul never touched me in Pillars 1 as something dark or grim or whatever. First off, it was not that we were hearing about that all the time. I almost forgot about the stillborn after Dyrwood. Second, souls, gods and reicanration is pure fantasy to me so I can never take 'em seriously. I like dark atmosphere in games but I don't find a theme/topic dark, unless it is based on a real world situation. That is, the refugee problem in Defiance Bay felt much more dark to me and I was very dissapointed that the developers didn't focus on that, supposedly, big issue.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Sedrefilos

[gkathellar]

PoE was only ever really consistently successful at creating a dark atmoshpere in Act 1 - Defiance Bay certainly talked about being on the verge of riots and chaos, but in practice it was mostly clean and bright and seemed perfectly nice? And act 3's setting was mostly just, "AND MEANWHILE, WITH THE WELSH SIOUX ELVES AND CAT HOBBITS." Like yeah there was a lot of bad stuff going on everywhere, but Gilded Vale and its environs were the only place were things actually seemed to be on the brink.

 

Also I feel like I lost the ability to take the OP seriously when they said this:

 

Too "fun"?

 

I am envisioning someone in a trenchcoat with spiky hair hunched over a laptop that they can't really see the screen of because they refuse to take off their sunglasses.

 

And pocket chains. So many pocket chains.

[DaKatarn]

Here's the thing: babies born without soul never touched me in Pillars 1 as something dark or grim or whatever. First off, it was not that we were hearing about that all the time. I almost forgot about the stillborn after Dyrwood. Second, souls, gods and reicanration is pure fantasy to me so I can never take 'em seriously. I like dark atmosphere in games but I don't find a theme/topic dark, unless it is based on a real world situation. That is, the refugee problem in Defiance Bay felt much more dark to me and I was very dissapointed that the developers didn't focus on that, supposedly, big issue.

 

I understand your point of view but it's your feelings and temper. I accept the fantasy of an universe and that doesn't make the issues less sensitive. 

 

It's not necessary that it's realistic to feel involved. In GoT, White Walkers are pure fantasy and however the fear is real.

 

We cannot be down to earth with a solid fantasy story, it's a nonsense IMO. It's this balance between fantasy dilemna and real's human reactions which is the spice of any imaginary universe (SciFi or Medieval-fantasy).

Edited May 17, 2018 by DaKatarn

[Sedrefilos]

 

Here's the thing: babies born without soul never touched me in Pillars 1 as something dark or grim or whatever. First off, it was not that we were hearing about that all the time. I almost forgot about the stillborn after Dyrwood. Second, souls, gods and reicanration is pure fantasy to me so I can never take 'em seriously. I like dark atmosphere in games but I don't find a theme/topic dark, unless it is based on a real world situation. That is, the refugee problem in Defiance Bay felt much more dark to me and I was very dissapointed that the developers didn't focus on that, supposedly, big issue.

 

Okay it's your feelings and temper. I accept the fantasy of an universe and that doesn't make the issues less sensitive. 

 

It is not necessary that it is realistic to feel involved. In GoT White Walkers are pure fantasy and however the fear is real.

 

We cannot be down to earth with a solid fantasy story, it's a nonsense IMO.

 

Well, I do find the white walkers laughable in GoT, at least how they are presented in the tv series. Yes the fear is real for the fantasy we live in while reading the books or watching the series but when you close the book or switch the tv off you forget about it because its fantasy. You only care about characters and all and if the situation is not realistic enough (that means you cannot reflect it in real world) you don't even care about them either. That's why I don't like that kind of dark stuff in rpgs with character development and choices. But I do like it as the atmosphere of a setting that focuses just on that. Dark Souls for example. Or even Ghouls and Ghosts! They just aim for the mood so darkness in there works just fine.

 

That all apart, as I said in a prior comment, Eora, as a world, is not dark. It's just typical fantasy with some interesting twists and real world history in it. Pillars 1 might have been somewhat dark but that shouldn't mean every game in the setting must be like that. And we shouldn't expect or even demand such a thing. Maybe next time they make a game in Eora that has to do only with you being in a sanitarium in Defiance Bay or just hunting sea monsters. Tone will differ, but the setting will be the same. 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Sedrefilos

[DaKatarn]

PoE was only ever really consistently successful at creating a dark atmoshpere in Act 1 - Defiance Bay certainly talked about being on the verge of riots and chaos, but in practice it was mostly clean and bright and seemed perfectly nice? And act 3's setting was mostly just, "AND MEANWHILE, WITH THE WELSH SIOUX ELVES AND CAT HOBBITS." Like yeah there was a lot of bad stuff going on everywhere, but Gilded Vale and its environs were the only place were things actually seemed to be on the brink.

 

Also I feel like I lost the ability to take the OP seriously when they said this:

 

Too "fun"?

 

I am envisioning someone in a trenchcoat with spiky hair hunched over a laptop that they can't really see the screen of because they refuse to take off their sunglasses.

 

And pocket chains. So many pocket chains.

 

Even if Act 1 was the darker in the POE1' story, many sides quests in all the game (including The White March) are mature, dramatic and gloomy. Do you have forgotten the niece of an elfish noble in Dyrwood or the accidental death of the fisher'sister in Stalwart? There is a global identity during the game.

 

I admits that your vision concerning my lifestyle is very funny but I have hipster beard and faded cut, trenchcoat is too rough and old fashioned for me... Okay you kill me for the sunglasses, Ray- ban are my guilty pleasures but no dark glasses. It's only for Charles Bronson and I respect that.

[DaKatarn]

 

 

Here's the thing: babies born without soul never touched me in Pillars 1 as something dark or grim or whatever. First off, it was not that we were hearing about that all the time. I almost forgot about the stillborn after Dyrwood. Second, souls, gods and reicanration is pure fantasy to me so I can never take 'em seriously. I like dark atmosphere in games but I don't find a theme/topic dark, unless it is based on a real world situation. That is, the refugee problem in Defiance Bay felt much more dark to me and I was very dissapointed that the developers didn't focus on that, supposedly, big issue.

 

Okay it's your feelings and temper. I accept the fantasy of an universe and that doesn't make the issues less sensitive. 

 

It is not necessary that it is realistic to feel involved. In GoT White Walkers are pure fantasy and however the fear is real.

 

We cannot be down to earth with a solid fantasy story, it's a nonsense IMO.

 

Well, I do find the white walkers laughable in GoT, at least how they are presented in the tv series. Yes the fear is real for the fantasy we live in while reading the books or watching the series but when you close the book or switch the tv off you forget about it because its fantasy. You only care about characters and all and if the situation is not realistic enough (that means you cannot reflect it in real world) you don't even care about them either. That's why I don't like that kind of dark stuff in rpgs with character development and choices. But I do like it as the atmosphere of a setting that focuses just on that. Dark Souls for example. Or even Ghouls and Ghosts! They just aim for the mood so darkness in there works just fine.

 

That all apart, as I said in a prior comment, Eora, as a world, is not dark. It's just typical fantasy with some interesting twists and real world history in it. Pillars 1 might have been somewhat dark but that shouldn't mean every game in the setting must be like that. And we shouldn't expect or even demand such a thing. Maybe next time they make a game in Eora that has to do only with you being in a sanitarium in Defiance Bay or just hunting sea monsters. Tone will differ, but the setting will be the same. 

 

 

It's the key of our debate. The choice of atmosphere in PoE1 together with art design and metaphysic backstory are main markers of the game's identity. It was deliberate choices and so it's why I expected a dark fantasy universe and the same ton in Deadfire. 

 

With many various of course, it's pirate theme after all but with this dark identity and ghoulish backstories. I remain hopefull that isn't like Hawaii hollidays anyway.

Edited May 17, 2018 by DaKatarn

[Sedrefilos]

 

 

 

Here's the thing: babies born without soul never touched me in Pillars 1 as something dark or grim or whatever. First off, it was not that we were hearing about that all the time. I almost forgot about the stillborn after Dyrwood. Second, souls, gods and reicanration is pure fantasy to me so I can never take 'em seriously. I like dark atmosphere in games but I don't find a theme/topic dark, unless it is based on a real world situation. That is, the refugee problem in Defiance Bay felt much more dark to me and I was very dissapointed that the developers didn't focus on that, supposedly, big issue.

 

Okay it's your feelings and temper. I accept the fantasy of an universe and that doesn't make the issues less sensitive. 

 

It is not necessary that it is realistic to feel involved. In GoT White Walkers are pure fantasy and however the fear is real.

 

We cannot be down to earth with a solid fantasy story, it's a nonsense IMO.

 

Well, I do find the white walkers laughable in GoT, at least how they are presented in the tv series. Yes the fear is real for the fantasy we live in while reading the books or watching the series but when you close the book or switch the tv off you forget about it because its fantasy. You only care about characters and all and if the situation is not realistic enough (that means you cannot reflect it in real world) you don't even care about them either. That's why I don't like that kind of dark stuff in rpgs with character development and choices. But I do like it as the atmosphere of a setting that focuses just on that. Dark Souls for example. Or even Ghouls and Ghosts! They just aim for the mood so darkness in there works just fine.

 

That all apart, as I said in a prior comment, Eora, as a world, is not dark. It's just typical fantasy with some interesting twists and real world history in it. Pillars 1 might have been somewhat dark but that shouldn't mean every game in the setting must be like that. And we shouldn't expect or even demand such a thing. Maybe next time they make a game in Eora that has to do only with you being in a sanitarium in Defiance Bay or just hunting sea monsters. Tone will differ, but the setting will be the same. 

 

 

It's the key of our debate. The choice of atmosphere in PoE1 together with art design and metaphysic backstory are main markers of the game's identity. It was deliberate choices and so it's why I expected a dark fantasy universe and the same ton in Deadfire. 

 

With many various of course, it's pirate theme after all but with this dark identity and ghoulish backstories. I remain hopefull that isn't like Hawaii hollidays anyway.

 

Exactly. If you like only dark fantasy then Deadfire might not click to you. It's not Hawaii holidays though (though I've never been to Hawaii, so I wouldn't know O.o ) and it's not pirate themed - it just drives inspiration from exploration era Carribean which happened to have pirates - like in Deadfire. All the setting background, though, is still there: same metaphysics (gods, souls, animancy) same nations and art design is at least at par with Pillars, only it has different theme. Oh, something else that Deadfire is more dark than Pillars 1: in dungeons it's totally dark, unless you have a light source with you (i.e. a tortch) or be in rooms with such source

[DaKatarn]

 

 

 

 

Here's the thing: babies born without soul never touched me in Pillars 1 as something dark or grim or whatever. First off, it was not that we were hearing about that all the time. I almost forgot about the stillborn after Dyrwood. Second, souls, gods and reicanration is pure fantasy to me so I can never take 'em seriously. I like dark atmosphere in games but I don't find a theme/topic dark, unless it is based on a real world situation. That is, the refugee problem in Defiance Bay felt much more dark to me and I was very dissapointed that the developers didn't focus on that, supposedly, big issue.

 

Okay it's your feelings and temper. I accept the fantasy of an universe and that doesn't make the issues less sensitive. 

 

It is not necessary that it is realistic to feel involved. In GoT White Walkers are pure fantasy and however the fear is real.

 

We cannot be down to earth with a solid fantasy story, it's a nonsense IMO.

 

Well, I do find the white walkers laughable in GoT, at least how they are presented in the tv series. Yes the fear is real for the fantasy we live in while reading the books or watching the series but when you close the book or switch the tv off you forget about it because its fantasy. You only care about characters and all and if the situation is not realistic enough (that means you cannot reflect it in real world) you don't even care about them either. That's why I don't like that kind of dark stuff in rpgs with character development and choices. But I do like it as the atmosphere of a setting that focuses just on that. Dark Souls for example. Or even Ghouls and Ghosts! They just aim for the mood so darkness in there works just fine.

 

That all apart, as I said in a prior comment, Eora, as a world, is not dark. It's just typical fantasy with some interesting twists and real world history in it. Pillars 1 might have been somewhat dark but that shouldn't mean every game in the setting must be like that. And we shouldn't expect or even demand such a thing. Maybe next time they make a game in Eora that has to do only with you being in a sanitarium in Defiance Bay or just hunting sea monsters. Tone will differ, but the setting will be the same. 

 

 

It's the key of our debate. The choice of atmosphere in PoE1 together with art design and metaphysic backstory are main markers of the game's identity. It was deliberate choices and so it's why I expected a dark fantasy universe and the same ton in Deadfire. 

 

With many various of course, it's pirate theme after all but with this dark identity and ghoulish backstories. I remain hopefull that isn't like Hawaii hollidays anyway.

 

Exactly. If you like only dark fantasy then Deadfire might not click to you. It's not Hawaii holidays though (though I've never been to Hawaii, so I wouldn't know O.o ) and it's not pirate themed - it just drives inspiration from exploration era Carribean which happened to have pirates - like in Deadfire. All the setting background, though, is still there: same metaphysics (gods, souls, animancy) same nations and art design is at least at par with Pillars, only it has different theme. Oh, something else that Deadfire is more dark than Pillars 1: in dungeons it's totally dark, unless you have a light source with you (i.e. a tortch) or be in rooms with such source

 

 

Okay I'm a little reassured. And what about tragedy, tormented and gloomy background for NPC and companions? 

Edited May 17, 2018 by DaKatarn

[Sedrefilos]

Someone with more hours in the game should be more appropriate to answer this.

[Aridea]

The heart and soul of Pillars are what the writers make them out to be, hence the second game does not necessarily have to exactly mirror the first one.

Dyrwood was dark medieval fantasy, very Welsh/Celtic inspired, Deadfire is more Pirates of the Caribbean in addition to British/Spanish colonization. Doesn't mean it lacks its own dark themes, difficult choices and controversial topics. It's just different environment, arguably slightly more lighthearted and pretty, but it has its own lion's share of darkness. 

For example, there is a temple on a remote island full of cannibals with sufficient gore, blood, and relative content galore. There is slavery which you can partake in if you so desire, even occasional torture. There is full-scale nudity and sexual references and innuendos everywhere. The quests and quest givers are usually very grey in terms of morals. None of the factions are good, everyone is working towards their own personal goals with the innocents below having to deal with poverty and starvation while their leaders perform power plays and squabble between each other. There is a lot of dirt behind the glimmer of the islands.

 

I don't really know what you are worried about. This is Obsidian, even their most light-hearted stories have enough tragedy to keep you depressed for days, and enough visuals to support it.

[tiamatbubbles]

Yes. I mean, if the threat of systematic cultural genocide, in the colonial context, doesn't lend itself to some darkside-humanity explorations, not sure what does. Deadfire seems to tow this line nicely from within the fantasy RPG template. The presence of sunshine and palm trees doesn't preclude epic carnage. In history, look no further than the fate of Captain Cook. There's countless examples.