Loremaster: Yay or Nay?

[Skazz]

So, how do you guys feel about Loremasters (Chanter + Wizard)? The concept seems extremely cool from a fluff standpoint, but I can't discern if this mix actually translates into anything worthwhile in-game. The fact that it seems to be one of the least popular and discussed multiclasses doesn't inspire a lot confidence for me.

 

Is it a case of two very different classes pulling the character in completely incompatible directions? Is there anything even close to a synergy for this particular combo?

 

Is there any way to make it work?

 

Please say yes.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Skazz

[evilcat]

From playing /wizard and /chanter (but not together)

Chanter works well with most of things, unless you really need weapon dmg. (for that there are better slashes)

The power of build is that you could take most of spells from grimoires. And just cherry pick your favorites from both sides.

Generally wizards are suprsingly good slashes (grimoires) if you are ok with some casting.

You could go tanky route with illusion or enchanting.

CC, debuff route is easier. (could focus on Int and Per)

 

It is not power build. But fun enought.

Flavour: Chanter Beckoner, and wizard conurer, enchanter or transmuter. for sudo animancer.

 

You can go Nature Godlike and use infuse vital energy on self for some power level.

 

You can tell what you desire, like nukes, cc, buffs, heals, summons.

Edited May 13, 2018 by evilcat

[Skazz]

Thank you! That's a good slew of ideas for me to experiment with.
 
I'd like to avoid using Beckoner, so the CC/debuff idea seems cool.
 
 

EDIT:

 

You can tell what you desire, like nukes, cc, buffs, heals, summons.

 
I've been thinking about using the damaging/debuffing phrases from afar (so max int for aura size) and using the spells to complement and/or take advantage of that, but I have no idea if that's actually doable within the system.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Skazz

[Ganrich]

If you're avoiding beckoner then I would go Troubadour. You can keep Brisk Recitation off until you run out of mage spells allowing you to easily have 100% uptime on two phrases, and hopefully by the time you are out of mage spells the enemies are whittled down enough that you can use invocations for clean switching it on and Switching to a single phrase Chant to build invocations faster.

 

Picking up Arcane or Explosive skills to further stretch what you can do. You shouldn't have to bother with autoattack. You should also be able to stay right in the middle of your party keeping everyone buffed.

 

As for mage, I'd just go pure Wizard, but that is because I dont like any of it's subs.

 

At high level with a level 7 chanter upgrade it gives you a buff that gives the caster plus anyone in the cone +1 class resource every 3 seconds for 30 seconds. At that point you can leave BR off permenantly. I would select Hel Hyraf, Killers Froze, and maybe the charm invocation. You could also get the level 1 knock back invocation for safety. Then in mid-late game you get that buff. I would look at all these if you are avoiding summons.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Ganrich

[Skazz]

If you're avoiding beckoner then I would go Troubadour. You can keep Brisk Recitation off until you run out of mage spells allowing you to easily have 100% uptime on two phrases, and hopefully by the time you are out of mage spells the enemies are whittled down enough that you can use invocations for clean switching it on and Switching to a single phrase Chant to build invocations faster.

 

Picking up Arcane or Explosive skills to further stretch what you can do. You shouldn't have to bother with autoattack. You should also be able to stay right in the middle of your party keeping everyone buffed.

 

As for mage, I'd just go pure Wizard, but that is because I dont like any of it's subs.

 

At high level with a level 7 chanter upgrade it gives you a buff that gives the caster plus anyone in the cone +1 class resource every 3 seconds for 30 seconds. At that point you can leave BR on permenantly. I would select Hel Hyraf, Killers Froze, and maybe the charm invocation. You could also get the level 1 knock back invocation for safety. Then in mid-late game you get that buff. I would look at all these if you are avoiding summons.

 

Thank you! This is exactly the kind of "flavor" for a Loremaster I've been looking for. In fact, I'll be giving it a whirl in a second.

 

About weapons: are you saying that weapon choice is irrelevant and everything will work equally well/poorly, or that I shouldn't bother with them at all because they will get in the way of the rest of the multiclass?

Edited May 13, 2018 by Skazz

[Ganrich]

Well, it depends on weapon. I made this build in beta, or something similar. Weapons will matter early on when you dont have a lot of spells and less so later in the game.

 

I went two handed on my build, and had Rod, Crossbow, and Quarterstaff proficiencies. I used xbow for interrupts, Quarterstaff for it's reach and defensive modal, and rod for clustered enemies when low on spells.

 

However, with that buff that gives you +1 spells you wont need weapons much if at all late game. Another thing to consider is maybe just take a few points in Alchemy, but leave 2 spots open for a couple different Grimoires. The reason is that a class that can give themselves spells back can also make good use of the spell selection of a grimoire and having a couple extra in your quickslots.

 

I didnt get a 3rd weapon slot either. I left Quarterstaff equipped and swapped between xbow and rod depending on the fight and enemy numbers.

 

Edit: by "swapped" I mean scout out a fight, and if it is a group with no or few mages go rod, but if you see casters a plenty then xbow. You do this prior to combat

Edited May 13, 2018 by Ganrich

[Skazz]

I see. Thank you for an insightful explanation. 

 

More importantly, you actually made the multiclass seem fun to play. Can't wait to test it out!

Edited May 13, 2018 by Skazz

[Ganrich]

Yeah, late game you will be the Niagra Falls of spells. It is a MC I plan on playing once I finally finish my first play through.

[Ganrich]

Oh, forgot a neat combo. Hel hyraf fully upgraded + Chill Fog + Combusting wounds + possible get up get close with Soft winds or dragons thrashed chant worked pretty well in beta.

 

Hit them with Hel Hyraf, have Soft winds or Dragon thrashed running, move so the enemies are in range of them, and dump chill fog then Combusting wounds. I haven't tried this in the released game but it kept Hel Hyraf running for a long while in beta.

[Skazz]

Oh, forgot a neat combo. Hel hyraf fully upgraded + Chill Fog + Combusting wounds + possible get up get close with Soft winds or dragons thrashed chant worked pretty well in beta.

 

Hit them with Hel Hyraf, have Soft winds or Dragon thrashed running, move so the enemies are in range of them, and dump chill fog then Combusting wounds. I haven't tried this in the released game but it kept Hel Hyraf running for a long while in beta.

 

Was wondering about the merits of Chill Fog for a level 1 spell pick, and this post came just in time. Thanks.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Skazz

[Ganrich]

Chill Fog is my favorite honestly. It blind's in an AoE, and it does some damage. Blind is really useful. Especially early on when you dont have much CC.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Ganrich

[Urocyon]

Do the Wizard passives  that add penetration to elemental effects (e.g. Heart of the Storm, Scion of Flame, etc) apply to the Chanter phrases and invocations that do elemental damage (e.g., Dragon Thrashed, Thrice She Was Wronged, etc)? It seems like they would, but there is keyword inconsistency between the two classes in that Wizard has electricity keywords while Chanter refers to shock damage.

[Ganrich]

Do the Wizard passives that add penetration to elemental effects (e.g. Heart of the Storm, Scion of Flame, etc) apply to the Chanter phrases and invocations that do elemental damage (e.g., Dragon Thrashed, Thrice She Was Wronged, etc)? It seems like they would, but there is keyword inconsistency between the two classes in that Wizard has electricity keywords while Chanter refers to shock damage.

I am not sure, but they do say that they increase penetration on "x Elemental Attacks." It doesnt say spells. So I think it will work for anything of that damage type. I also through about making a frost/shock Chanter/Druid of some sort. Possibly a Fury/Troubadour, but I'm still thinking on it. Unfortunately, Chanters only get 2 fire, 1 frost, and 1 shock ability. With the right build and Multiclass it should work though.

[Urocyon]

Ok I just did some testing. It looks like the shock damage in "Thrice Was She Wronged..." and the frost damage in "Seven Nights She Waited..." get additional penetration from Heart of the Storm and Secrets of Rime, respectively. However, near as I can tell, Scion of Flame does not appear to add penetration to "The Dragon Thrashed..." or "Aefyllath Ues...". Seems like it should considering Paladins get Scion of Flame to buff their abilities and Flames of Devotion is similar to Aefyllath. Could be user error on my part. Regardless, it does show some additional with casters when using those abilities and passives.