Before the Dark Times....

[Tyrell]

I know it is hard to believe but I work for TheForce.net in the games section. Thats right, the person who is always complaining works for the top SW site on the net. Feels good to be me.

 

Anyways....

 

We all know that KOTOR 2 takes place 5 years after KOTOR with the Jedi near extinction and the Republic on the run and Revan vanished to who knows where....

 

Well what we don't know yet is what lead up to these specific events. We really won't know til the game is released but we can always speculate. Thats what this article does. It takes the LS ending to KOTOR and goes in detail the events (speculation) that lead up to the beginning of KOTOR 2.

 

I'm also going to do the same again but this time use the DS ending to KOTOR.

 

Here is an little excerpt from the article:

 

One year after the Battle of the Star Forge:

 

It's been a year since the Battle for the Star Forge took place. Revan and Bastila have developed a friendly relationship but have went their separate ways. Bastilia has taken on a padawan apprentice of her own and has gone onto her own journeys, while Revan has earned a spot on the Jedi Council to add knowledge and experience. Little do the Jedi know that the Sith have been growing in number since the Star Forge battle a year ago. Left with no true Sith Lord, three unknown Sith that were the 3 highest ranking Sith under Lord Malak have came together to take power. These "Sith Lords" have taken control of the academy on Korriban and have started to sprout a new breed of Sith waiting for the perfect time to reveal themselves once again.

 

Here is the link ==> http://www.theforce.net/games/articles/slspec1.shtml

 

I hope you guys enjoy it. You can email me at tyrell@playmoreconsoles.com (Hehe, another website I write for) for feedback. Or contact me on AIM at Tyrell1011

[Meshugger]

Even though there are several places in that article that i don't like (like the ignorancy of the Jedi Council), but a nice try anyhow.

[Tyrell]

Yeah, the reason why I made it to where the JC doesn't listen to Revan is cause they see it like this....Revan used to be the Dark Lord of the Sith. Just just a darksider, but the Dark Lord, THE Dark Lord. Even if he is now good, he is still going to have.....flashbacks or awareness of the DS in his mind.

 

So when Revan told the JC that he feels motion within the DS order, they throw it off cause they believe that Revan having being the former Dark Lord is just having old memories. Its the JC's mistake just as it was the JC's mistake in training Anakin and it was the JC's mistake by not listending to Dooku when he said that the Senate is ran by a Dark Lord, they threw that idea off to. So the JC is always screwing up.

 

So before anyone else goes on....please don't bash my write-up on the fact that the JC didn't listen to Revan. The JC is always doing these types of things, even in the movies like the examples I gave you.

[Shdy314]

I know it is hard to believe but I work for TheForce.net in the games section. Thats right, the person who is always complaining works for the top SW site on the net. Feels good to be me.

Am I supposed to care? It's all subjective. I certainly wouldn't want to work there. SW isn't the greatest thing ever.

[Shdy314]

So the JC is always screwing up.

The JC is always doing these types of things, even in the movies like the examples I gave you.

Only in crappy movies most SW fans hate and try to ignore. Don't be limited by GL's filth. You should write in such a way as to demonstrate the Council is made up of individuals. There should be intrigue and disagreements. Some might disregard something while others consider it very important indeed. So much more real and entertaining than the "The Council has spoken now every member thinks this way that we have agreed upon" way that they seem to be portrayed. GL decided the Council is apparently made up of all the most out of touch, ignorant, closeminded members of the Jedi. Except Yoda of course but even he still does absolutely nothing just because the Council has decided and they can't be wrong?!

[newc0253]

Only in crappy movies most SW fans hate and try to ignore. Don't be limited by GL's filth.

LOL. yeah, what does Lucas know? he only created Star Wars.

 

p.s. i'm not saying episodes 1 and 2 were necessarily good movies, but arguing against them as canon is about as pointless an exercise as drilling a hole in your head.

[Child of Flame]

Nice speculation but your writing style sucks monkey nipples. For Bob's sakes don't quit you day job and stay in school.

[jaguars4ever]

Nice speculation but your writing style sucks monkey nipples.  For Bob's sakes don't quit you day job and stay in school. 

Looks like you've shattered that dream....or postponed it for a very long time! ^_^

[Shdy314]

Only in crappy movies most SW fans hate and try to ignore. Don't be limited by GL's filth.

LOL. yeah, what does Lucas know? he only created Star Wars.

 

p.s. i'm not saying episodes 1 and 2 were necessarily good movies, but arguing against them as canon is about as pointless an exercise as drilling a hole in your head.

Not really. Once a universe has grown as insanely large as SW can with so many authors and venues it's incredibly easy to ignore something as small(in the grand scheme of things) as a two hour movie. How hard would it be to pretend EP. 1 and 2 didn't happen? What would it affect? Absolutely nothing.

 

Just because someone creates something doesn't mean they can't screw it up by deciding to turn an adult film/novel into kiddy, family friendly crap. And if they do then you can choose to ignore it. Especially when the majority are behind you in agreeing it is crap. That's why universes like DnD and SW can last so long. Someone writes a bad book? There's a million more to choose from with a different author and a different take on it.

[sniggy]

e JC's mistake just as it was the JC's mistake in training Anakin and it was the JC's mistake by not listending to Dooku when he said that the Senate is ran by a Dark Lord, they threw that idea off to. So the JC is always screwing up.

that's why skywalker didn't bother putting up a jedi council. too many jedi just screw things up, i guess...

 

"i have a vision"

"me too"

"i was first"

"hey, funny- i had a vision of you having a vision..."

"mmm. strange the ways of the force are"

[newc0253]

Just because someone creates something doesn't mean they can't screw it up by deciding to turn an adult film/novel into kiddy, family friendly crap.

 

 

 

.

screw what up? it's their artistic vision, not yours. it's the integrity of their work at stake, not your own ideas of what it should be. you might think the star wars universe has gone down the toilet, and you're entitled to that opinion. but it's lucas that controls star wars, not the fans.

 

And if they do then you can choose to ignore it.

 

sure.

 

That's why universes like DnD and SW can last so long. Someone writes a bad book? There's a million more to choose from with a different author and a different take on it

 

anyone can write a star wars book or D&D book. but lucas or gygax writing one is canon...

[EnderAndrew]

anyone can write a star wars book or D&D book. but lucas or gygax writing one is canon...

I have to agree. Look, I'm an indie filmmaker. I study film a great deal.

 

Lucas suffers from a lack of editorial process. He surrounds himself with yes-men, doesn't answer to a studio, is never challenged by anyone, and doesn't test screen his movies. He lives in a secluded Ranch, in Lucas world, and ignores the media at large.

 

No one person makes a perfect product as their first draft. Episode 1 was greatly flawed on many levels. But the trailer for Episode 1 and the Duel of the Fates video both give me goosebumps to this day. Visually, 95% of the film was great. Episode 1 may have the best score of any of the Star Wars films. John Williams is pure genius.

 

You take an editorial process to Episode 1, and you can easily change the film into a great film. Start with the script, and revise it a bit. The film is a series of meetings, where people sit around in chairs and talk with abrupt action sequences in between. Rule #1 of film making, show rather than tell. This flaw is most obvious in Episode 2 where we don't see the tuscan raider massacre, but rather hear about it later. That's weak filmmaking at it's core. But the concept and story element of the slaughter were good ideas. A small tweak, and you have a great scene. Next, remove midichlorians. In the original trilogy, Obi Wan and Vader both had a mystical sense of how strong Luke was. We accepted that. Keep with that. Next, have the aliens speak in alien languages rather than human dialects of English. It comes across as racist, is less immersive, and is inconsistent with the OT. Next, have someone do a dialouge polish. Take out the "yippee!" and take a page from Terry Brook's novelization of Episode 1. It's the same story, but exapanded and told much better.

 

The events of the prequels are very much cannon, and still Star Wars. They are poorly told. I try to look at what the films could have been, and I see greatness. If only Lucas had let someone else pen the script for Episode 3, I'd have high hopes.

[Shdy314]

screw what up? it's their artistic vision, not yours. it's the integrity of their work at stake, not your own ideas of what it should be. you might think the star wars universe has gone down the toilet, and you're entitled to that opinion. but it's lucas that controls star wars, not the fans.

HA! That's the biggest mistake any creator can make! At some point it becomes about the fans. At the end of the day it has to be about the fans or whatever you make will go down the toilet. If the OT had been like the prequels he would be a nobody. The fans are what make you a success. And if every fan tells you what an idiot you are to make the force biological instead of mystic but you do it anyways you are a FOOL. We control SW now. GL is completely superflous. Sure he will always control any legal content that tries to make money. But when we sit around and play SW D20 we get to play it whatever way we want. If GL was so gunho about the prequels he should have kept a closer eye on the books he was stamping. Approving books on Boba Fett and getting the money from us fans that bought and enjoyed it and then deciding to ignore every single one and write your own version makes you an ****.

 

anyone can write a star wars book or D&D book. but lucas or gygax writing one is canon...

 

Actually anything made officially with SW has their support(o they'd be sued) which means it is canon. See my above post for why this pisses me off. Either GL is a greedy bastard who planned on making his own version the whole time but gave his support and approval to books dealing with the SW timeline or he is just plain careless. Either way he should have adopted those versions he approved or simply been more strict on what he stamped.

[EnderAndrew]

I blame a lot of the book/cannon issues on Del Rey.

 

When Bantam had the license, I read *every single* Star Wars book ever published to my knowledge, including old Del Rey books. When Del Rey took over and started the NJO, stuff went downhill immediately. Characters weren't consistent, authors didn't communicate eith each other, etc.

 

The other problem was that the comics were never seen as cannon in Lucas's eyes and never supervised thusly. Heck, Marvel did Star Wars comics for almost three years back in the 80's without Lucas's permission, and got sued. Lucas hated the comic medium and was vocal about it. Lucas was vocal in describing his dislike for the Dark Empire plotline.

 

Lucas told the authors to stay away from certain subjects because he wanted to keep everything consistent and cannon. Said topics included the introduction of Chewbacca to Han Solo, Boba Fett's origins, and cloning. Zahn has said in interviews that he had to get special permission from Lucas to use cloning at all in his novels.

 

Later authors started quoting the comics in the novels, while the comics heaviliy utilized cloning, and Boba Fett's origins. Del Rey gets the book license, and then everything goes out the window.

 

Lucas (or atleast his rep) made it a point to personally approve each author and plotline with Bantam had the license. A buddy of mine was a rules editor for West End Games, and they had a rep from Lucas that encouraged them to write sourcebooks for certain novels. They worked with the authors, and many of the authors colloberated with one another. Life was great for a while, and Star Wars was fairly consistent, largely maintained by fans, and overlooked by Lucas. When people ignored Lucas's basic rules, cannon became largely debatable.

 

And frankly, I've played in many a Star Wars RPG game, and read a lot of bad fan-fic. You'll have a hard time convincing me that fans know cannon, or respect cannon. As a fan, you have the right to run whatever RPG you want, and enjoy it as much as you want. That doesn't mean you get to dictate cannon to the rest of the community. The concept of cannon means that a governing body of some sort makes certain aspects official.

 

Lucas is that body whether people like it or not.

[Shdy314]

I blame a lot of the book/cannon issues on Del Rey.

 

The concept of cannon means that a governing body of some sort makes certain aspects official.

 

Lucas is that body whether people like it or not.

I'd rather just blame Lucas for losing control of his own creation. All interesting info I didn't really know though.

 

I'm not debating the technicalities of canon. Sure anything he wants to write is technically canon. Just pointing out that thinking any fans are in any way obligated to follow the canon he creates and not another author or idea is not facing reality. If Lucas wants to slap fans in the face with Midichlorians and a punk as slittle bitch for Vader of course he has that right. But you won't find any fans springing up from it. On the contrary he'll lose some. And when you have too few fans your universe crumbles and canon doesn't really matter if no one is reading or watching. As for fans not knowing canon I've known some SW psychos that knew so much about the SW universe it's real and fictional side it scared me deeply. I wonder if you are one of those people.

 

If so I've always been a bit curious about the real history of SW. Specifically I've heard lots of conflicting information on how much help GL had in creating the OT. Can you clarify please.

[EnderAndrew]

I agree that Lucas should pay more attention to his own creation. But in one sense, he hired Steve Sansweet for that. He found a guy that knew more about Star Wars than him, and hired the guy. The problem is that no one stands up to Lucas and challenges him on ideas.

 

In a sense you are right that Lucas is starting to contradict himself a bit in the prequels. It's hard to argue the need to keep the novels and EU consistent when the movies aren't even consistent.

[Tyrell]

Nice speculation but your writing style sucks monkey nipples. For Bob's sakes don't quit you day job and stay in school.

Actually I don't want to have a future in Journalism.

 

To tell you the truth, I'm a freshmen in college (18 years of age) where I attend Kansas University. I'm majoring in Computer Science and I'm on a full ride athletic scholarship for Track & Field where I was All-Conference in the Big XII Indoor Track & Field Championships and I was a NCAA Nationals Qualifyer.

 

I work for TFN cause its the #1 SW site on the net (Besides SW.com) and I'm highly interested in SW. I also work for playmoreconsoles.com a multi-console website.

 

I have strong PR ties with LucasArts so can set up interviews from LA and it's developers as well as get free reviewable copies of a game. In the future (Like this summer) I plan on conducting an interview with some people from Obsidian about KOTOR 2, and interview that you all will also be able to read and gain more knowledge about KOTOR 2.

 

This editorial I wrote is just a crack at what might our could be the events that leads up to KOTOR 2 using the LS ending from KOTOR.

 

If you dont' like it, well thats just you. I'm not looking to win a Pulitzers prize from this, I just want to give fans of KOTOR/KOTOR 2 (People like you) something to read up on. If you like it, great and expect the part two to that article using the DS ending of KOTOR. If you don't, well fine.

[EnderAndrew]

Don't give in to the dark side (ie, encourage trolls)

[Shdy314]

Nice speculation but your writing style sucks monkey nipples.  For Bob's sakes don't quit you day job and stay in school. 

Actually I don't want to have a future in Journalism.

 

To tell you the truth, I'm a freshmen in college (18 years of age) where I attend Kansas University. I'm majoring in Computer Science and I'm on a full ride athletic scholarship for Track & Field where I was All-Conference in the Big XII Indoor Track & Field Championships and I was a NCAA Nationals Qualifyer.

 

I work for TFN cause its the #1 SW site on the net (Besides SW.com) and I'm highly interested in SW. I also work for playmoreconsoles.com a multi-console website.

 

I have strong PR ties with LucasArts so can set up interviews from LA and it's developers as well as get free reviewable copies of a game. In the future (Like this summer) I plan on conducting an interview with some people from Obsidian about KOTOR 2, and interview that you all will also be able to read and gain more knowledge about KOTOR 2.

 

This editorial I wrote is just a crack at what might our could be the events that leads up to KOTOR 2 using the LS ending from KOTOR.

 

If you dont' like it, well thats just you. I'm not looking to win a Pulitzers prize from this, I just want to give fans of KOTOR/KOTOR 2 (People like you) something to read up on. If you like it, great and expect the part two to that article using the DS ending of KOTOR. If you don't, well fine.

First of all no one cares.

Second of all you posted your article in a forum. What did you expect? You could have written the next LOTR and you'd still get someone who says that. Don't post if you can't take the heat.

[Tyrell]

Nice speculation but your writing style sucks monkey nipples.

[Shdy314]

Then why'd you bother posting all that boring crap about your life? Is that supposed to change his mind? Am I going to have to see your biography everytime someone flames your article? God I hope not. If what you say is true. A silly little flame shouldn't have led to you saying here let me tell you all about myself.

 

Oh by the way. I didn't say no one cares about your editorial. I said no one cares about where you go to college or how you got there. Is that why you did post it? Because of some positive feedback? "Oh you like me! Want to be my friend? ill tell you all about myself." Either you are a narcissist or you crave attention.

[Tyrell]

Then why'd you bother posting all that boring crap about your life? Is that supposed to change his mind? Am I going to have to see your biography everytime someone flames your article? God I hope not. If what you say is true. A silly little flame shouldn't have led to you saying here let me tell you all about myself.

 

Oh by the way. I didn't say no one cares about your editorial. I said no one cares about where you go to college or how you got there. Is that why you did post it? Because of some positive feedback? "Oh you like me! Want to be my friend? ill tell you all about myself." Either you are a narcissist or you crave attention.

The reason why I gave that little background cause he thought that I'm probably going to or trying to pursue a career in journalism. I just wanted to point out that I'm in College now for Computer Science, totally different.

 

Oh, and don't worry, everytime someone flames my article(s) you won't get that message again.

[Shdy314]

Then why'd you bother posting all that boring crap about your life? Is that supposed to change his mind? Am I going to have to see your biography everytime someone flames your article? God I hope not. If what you say is true. A silly little flame shouldn't have led to you saying here let me tell you all about myself.

 

Oh by the way. I didn't say no one cares about your editorial. I said no one cares about where you go to college or how you got there. Is that why you did post it? Because of some positive feedback? "Oh you like me! Want to be my friend? ill tell you all about myself."    Either you are a narcissist or you crave attention.

The reason why I gave that little background cause he thought that I'm probably going to or trying to pursue a career in journalism. I just wanted to point out that I'm in College now for Computer Science, totally different.

 

Oh, and don't worry, everytime someone flames my article(s) you won't get that message again.

Yes but it's silly. I doubt he will ever read it. And my point was he wasn't making a real criticism to try and improve your work or offer you honest life advice he was just flaming you. No response will change that. But I'll breathe a lot easier knowing you aren't pursuing writing as a full time career.

[newc0253]

HA! That's the biggest mistake any creator can make! At some point it becomes about the fans. At the end of the day it has to be about the fans or whatever you make will go down the toilet. If the OT had been like the prequels he would be a nobody. The fans are what make you a success. And if every fan tells you what an idiot you are to make the force biological instead of mystic but you do it anyways you are a FOOL.

except that proper artists don't create for fans. they create for themselves. you could claim that lucas is a lousy artist, or a good artist who has become lousy over time, and you might not be wrong, but the idea that he should write for the fans is utter BS. fans are, by and large, whiny idiots. ask 100 star wars fans to write the prequels and what would you have gotten? judging by the average SW fanfic, probably some retarded mush about anakin and boba fett being brothers who were seperated at birth and how yoda was actually their father...

 

We control SW now. GL is completely superflous. Sure he will always control any legal content that tries to make money. But when we sit around and play SW D20 we get to play it whatever way we want. If GL was so gunho about the prequels he should have kept a closer eye on the books he was stamping. Approving books on Boba Fett and getting the money from us fans that bought and enjoyed it and then deciding to ignore every single one and write your own version makes you an ****.

 

fans control SW? LOL. delusional much? yeah, GL has "legal" control that nets him billions of dollars annually, but it's the fans who give him all that money who are the ones with the real power, right?

 

as for lucas approving books on boba fett and screwing over the fans, ROTFLMAO. i grew up on star wars, as i assume pretty much everyone else on these boards did. i remember being about 10 when alan dean foster's 'splinter in the minds eye' was released and thinking, "if george lucas didn't write it, then i'm not interested". i was also able to grasp that something wasn't canon just because something was written on the back of a star wars baseball card. so plainly if a 10 year old was smart enough to work out the difference between canon and non-canon, then i don't know how anyone else can have an excuse.

 

Actually anything made officially with SW has their support(o they'd be sued) which means it is canon. See my above post for why this pisses me off.

 

and see my post above for why you have only yourself to blame...

 

Either GL is a greedy bastard who planned on making his own version the whole time but gave his support and approval to books dealing with the SW timeline or he is just plain careless. Either way he should have adopted those versions he approved or simply been more strict on what he stamped.

 

ah, the outrage of the clueless...

[Tyrell]

Then why'd you bother posting all that boring crap about your life? Is that supposed to change his mind? Am I going to have to see your biography everytime someone flames your article? God I hope not. If what you say is true. A silly little flame shouldn't have led to you saying here let me tell you all about myself.

 

Oh by the way. I didn't say no one cares about your editorial. I said no one cares about where you go to college or how you got there. Is that why you did post it? Because of some positive feedback? "Oh you like me! Want to be my friend? ill tell you all about myself."