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Is that a Nature Godlike I spy? lol.  I hope that was some kind of finishing move, otherwise it didn't take long at all to break the game...

 

May that tiger forever rest in pieces.

Edited by Climhazzard

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It's an endgame ability. Maybe consoled-in tigers don't scale well?...

 

Even if endgame bosses don't have thousands of health, judging from Paladin/Fighter/Druid, they'll be able to auto-resurrect multiple times. 

 

And they should also have abilities that do equivalent (or better) damage....

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It's an endgame ability. Maybe consoled-in tigers don't scale well?...

 

Even if endgame bosses don't have thousands of health, judging from Paladin/Fighter/Druid, they'll be able to auto-resurrect multiple times.

 

And they should also have abilities that do equivalent (or better) damage....

Why auto-resurrect if you can one shot anything? This is the damage of one monk, if u rolled 5, u can do 10000 damage, and what boss has such amount of hp?

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It's an endgame ability. Maybe consoled-in tigers don't scale well?...

 

Even if endgame bosses don't have thousands of health, judging from Paladin/Fighter/Druid, they'll be able to auto-resurrect multiple times.

 

And they should also have abilities that do equivalent (or better) damage....

Why auto-resurrect if you can one shot anything? This is the damage of one monk, if u rolled 5, u can do 10000 damage, and what boss has such amount of hp?

 

 

I mean that auto-resurrect abilities are so common even before endgame that the bosses are probably going to auto-resurrect like crazy. With lots of hp on resurrection. Probably resurrect even stronger. 

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It's an endgame ability. Maybe consoled-in tigers don't scale well?...

 

Even if endgame bosses don't have thousands of health, judging from Paladin/Fighter/Druid, they'll be able to auto-resurrect multiple times.

 

And they should also have abilities that do equivalent (or better) damage....

Why auto-resurrect if you can one shot anything? This is the damage of one monk, if u rolled 5, u can do 10000 damage, and what boss has such amount of hp?

I mean that auto-resurrect abilities are so common even before endgame that the bosses are probably going to auto-resurrect like crazy. With lots of hp on resurrection. Probably resurrect even stronger.

Man you try really hard :)

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It's an endgame ability. Maybe consoled-in tigers don't scale well?...

 

Even if endgame bosses don't have thousands of health, judging from Paladin/Fighter/Druid, they'll be able to auto-resurrect multiple times.

 

And they should also have abilities that do equivalent (or better) damage....

Why auto-resurrect if you can one shot anything? This is the damage of one monk, if u rolled 5, u can do 10000 damage, and what boss has such amount of hp?

I mean that auto-resurrect abilities are so common even before endgame that the bosses are probably going to auto-resurrect like crazy. With lots of hp on resurrection. Probably resurrect even stronger.

Man you try really hard :)

 

 

Well Druid/Priest/Chanter all have resurrects that add inspirations, Paladin/Fighter/Druid have auto-resurrect, many late-game spells are primarily useful for Destroy, and plenty of games have endgame bosses that resurrect repeatedly. So it does seem overwhelmingly likely. Not a stretch at all.

 

Can you console-summon some likely endgame bosses to test? findgamedata Eothas?

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It's an endgame ability. Maybe consoled-in tigers don't scale well?...

 

Even if endgame bosses don't have thousands of health, judging from Paladin/Fighter/Druid, they'll be able to auto-resurrect multiple times.

 

And they should also have abilities that do equivalent (or better) damage....

Why auto-resurrect if you can one shot anything? This is the damage of one monk, if u rolled 5, u can do 10000 damage, and what boss has such amount of hp?
I mean that auto-resurrect abilities are so common even before endgame that the bosses are probably going to auto-resurrect like crazy. With lots of hp on resurrection. Probably resurrect even stronger.
Man you try really hard :)

Well Druid/Priest/Chanter all have resurrects that add inspirations, Paladin/Fighter/Druid have auto-resurrect, many late-game spells are primarily useful for Destroy, and plenty of games have endgame bosses that resurrect repeatedly. So it does seem overwhelmingly likely. Not a stretch at all.

 

Can you console-summon some likely endgame bosses to test? findgamedata Eothas?

Nah I have no urge to discuss with you at all. This is not game breaking.

 

Edit: one last point, if u assume a boss has unlimited resurrect, then you cannot beat the boss without destroy, which is a bad design because u cannot guarantee your team has destroy.

 

If u argue the resurrect is limited, then it doesn’t counter the point that this ability is game breaking.

Edited by dunehunter

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It's an endgame ability. Maybe consoled-in tigers don't scale well?...

 

Even if endgame bosses don't have thousands of health, judging from Paladin/Fighter/Druid, they'll be able to auto-resurrect multiple times.

 

And they should also have abilities that do equivalent (or better) damage....

Why auto-resurrect if you can one shot anything? This is the damage of one monk, if u rolled 5, u can do 10000 damage, and what boss has such amount of hp?
I mean that auto-resurrect abilities are so common even before endgame that the bosses are probably going to auto-resurrect like crazy. With lots of hp on resurrection. Probably resurrect even stronger.
Man you try really hard :)
Well Druid/Priest/Chanter all have resurrects that add inspirations, Paladin/Fighter/Druid have auto-resurrect, many late-game spells are primarily useful for Destroy, and plenty of games have endgame bosses that resurrect repeatedly. So it does seem overwhelmingly likely. Not a stretch at all.

 

Can you console-summon some likely endgame bosses to test? findgamedata Eothas?

Nah I have no urge to discuss with you at all. This is not game breaking.

 

Edit: one last point, if u assume a boss has unlimited resurrect, then you cannot beat the boss without destroy, which is a bad design because u cannot guarantee your team has destroy.

 

If u argue the resurrect is limited, then it doesn’t counter the point that this ability is game breaking.

 

 

So there must be items, probably including scrolls, that Destroy. Not terrible game design. (Or endgame boss resurrect could be limited to 10+ times.)

 

Some of the Destroy abilities only work on Near Death enemies, or when you kill them with a spell, so doing so much damage you kill outright might actually be detrimental to landing destroy. Instead, the boss keeps popping back stronger. Rope-a-dope beats death touch.

 

Whole game starts with Eothas self-resurrecting....

Edited by SaruNi

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It's an endgame ability. Maybe consoled-in tigers don't scale well?...

 

Even if endgame bosses don't have thousands of health, judging from Paladin/Fighter/Druid, they'll be able to auto-resurrect multiple times.

 

And they should also have abilities that do equivalent (or better) damage....

Why auto-resurrect if you can one shot anything? This is the damage of one monk, if u rolled 5, u can do 10000 damage, and what boss has such amount of hp?
I mean that auto-resurrect abilities are so common even before endgame that the bosses are probably going to auto-resurrect like crazy. With lots of hp on resurrection. Probably resurrect even stronger.
Man you try really hard :)
Well Druid/Priest/Chanter all have resurrects that add inspirations, Paladin/Fighter/Druid have auto-resurrect, many late-game spells are primarily useful for Destroy, and plenty of games have endgame bosses that resurrect repeatedly. So it does seem overwhelmingly likely. Not a stretch at all.

 

Can you console-summon some likely endgame bosses to test? findgamedata Eothas?

Nah I have no urge to discuss with you at all. This is not game breaking.

 

Edit: one last point, if u assume a boss has unlimited resurrect, then you cannot beat the boss without destroy, which is a bad design because u cannot guarantee your team has destroy.

 

If u argue the resurrect is limited, then it doesn’t counter the point that this ability is game breaking.

 

 

So there must be items, probably including scrolls, that Destroy. Not terrible game design. (Or endgame boss resurrect could be limited to 10+ times.)

 

Some of the Destroy abilities only work on Near Death enemies, or when you kill them with a spell, so doing so much damage you kill outright might actually be detrimental to landing destroy. Instead, the boss keeps popping back stronger. Rope-a-dope beats death touch.

 

Whole game starts with Eothas self-resurrecting....

 

What? No way game would be desiged like that. Maybe some boss have some self ress mechanic once in game, but mechanic like that would be stupidest thing I have ever seen in RPG.

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It's an endgame ability. Maybe consoled-in tigers don't scale well?...

 

Even if endgame bosses don't have thousands of health, judging from Paladin/Fighter/Druid, they'll be able to auto-resurrect multiple times.

 

And they should also have abilities that do equivalent (or better) damage....

Why auto-resurrect if you can one shot anything? This is the damage of one monk, if u rolled 5, u can do 10000 damage, and what boss has such amount of hp?
I mean that auto-resurrect abilities are so common even before endgame that the bosses are probably going to auto-resurrect like crazy. With lots of hp on resurrection. Probably resurrect even stronger.
Man you try really hard :)
Well Druid/Priest/Chanter all have resurrects that add inspirations, Paladin/Fighter/Druid have auto-resurrect, many late-game spells are primarily useful for Destroy, and plenty of games have endgame bosses that resurrect repeatedly. So it does seem overwhelmingly likely. Not a stretch at all.

 

Can you console-summon some likely endgame bosses to test? findgamedata Eothas?

Nah I have no urge to discuss with you at all. This is not game breaking.

 

Edit: one last point, if u assume a boss has unlimited resurrect, then you cannot beat the boss without destroy, which is a bad design because u cannot guarantee your team has destroy.

 

If u argue the resurrect is limited, then it doesn’t counter the point that this ability is game breaking.

 

 

So there must be items, probably including scrolls, that Destroy. Not terrible game design. (Or endgame boss resurrect could be limited to 10+ times.)

 

Some of the Destroy abilities only work on Near Death enemies, or when you kill them with a spell, so doing so much damage you kill outright might actually be detrimental to landing destroy. Instead, the boss keeps popping back stronger. Rope-a-dope beats death touch.

 

Whole game starts with Eothas self-resurrecting....

 

What? No way game would be desiged like that. Maybe some boss have some self ress mechanic once in game, but mechanic like that would be stupidest thing I have ever seen in RPG.

 

 

It could definitely be frustrating. But Paladin already gets at least 5 auto-resurrects, limited only by wound-on-resurrect. Enemy paladins get all those class abilities. Same with enemy fighters. I'd expect a boss to get even more resurrects. And while it's not extremely common, there have been many games where endgame bosses will keep resurrecting unless you do something special to destroy them.

 

Inner Death only does crush damage. So endgame bosses are probably either immune to crush, have 1000s of hp, or auto-resurrect many times.

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Let me guess, empowered inner death and that that +100 accuracy +100 pen on empowered attacks passive (obviously not broken at all). Also turning wheel with + fire damage and enduring dance to generate wounds as seen in the logs.

 

@SaruNi This is obviously completely broken and you're not making any sense.

Edited by MadDemiurg

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Let me guess, empowered inner death and that that +100 accuracy +100 pen on empowered attacks passive (obviously not broken at all). Also turning wheel with + fire damage and enduring dance to generate wounds as seen in the logs.

 

 

So can anyone explain the OP build and how he achieves that?

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Let me guess, empowered inner death and that that +100 accuracy +100 pen on empowered attacks passive (obviously not broken at all). Also turning wheel with + fire damage and enduring dance to generate wounds as seen in the logs.

 

 

So can anyone explain the OP build and how he achieves that?

 

 

Single-class Helwalker Monk obvious build (plus empower). Using console to jump to max level. The tiger is also console-generated so it wouldn't naturally occur as an endgame enemy.

Edited by SaruNi

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Let me guess, empowered inner death and that that +100 accuracy +100 pen on empowered attacks passive (obviously not broken at all). Also turning wheel with + fire damage and enduring dance to generate wounds as seen in the logs.

 

 

So can anyone explain the OP build and how he achieves that?

 

Inner death has +500% damage (not OP at all) on crit and fairly high base dmg. Empower increases the base damage further. With the passive for +100 acc and pen it always crits and always achieves overpen for 1.3 multiplier. Finally, turning wheel adds 5% multiplicative fire lash per wound and dance generates wounds for free. And yeah, it's probably a hellwalker for +1 might per wound on top.

 

The obvious nerfs are reducing the +500% crit damage to something reasonable and nerfing the crap out of +100 acc/pen on empowered abilities cause that's just silly.

Edited by MadDemiurg

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Let me guess, empowered inner death and that that +100 accuracy +100 pen on empowered attacks passive (obviously not broken at all). Also turning wheel with + fire damage and enduring dance to generate wounds as seen in the logs.

 

 

So can anyone explain the OP build and how he achieves that?

 

Inner death has +500% damage (not OP at all) on crit and fairly high base dmg. Empower increases the base damage further. With the passive for +100 acc and pen it always crits and always achieves overpen for 1.3 multiplier. Finally, turning wheel adds 5% multiplicative fire lash per wound and dance generates wounds for free. And yeah, it's probably a hellwalker for +1 might per wound on top.

 

The obvious nerfs are reducing the +500% crit damage to something reasonable and nerfing the crap out of +100 acc/pen on empowered abilities cause that's just silly.

 

 

It's so obviously "OP" that there must be significant game mechanisms to counteract it---aside from just requiring a lot of wounds. The devs can overlook things but they're not completely incompetent.

 

Simplest mechanisms are the ones I've already pointed out. Ability trees confirm that resurrect and auto-resurrect will be pretty common at high levels. (Corpse Eater will suck less... against kith and beasts. Gobbling up Paladins.... eating dragons. Probably eating Galawains too.)

 

There are some other options. Some bosses could be immune to crit---though that's a bad solution imo.

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Let me guess, empowered inner death and that that +100 accuracy +100 pen on empowered attacks passive (obviously not broken at all). Also turning wheel with + fire damage and enduring dance to generate wounds as seen in the logs.

 

 

So can anyone explain the OP build and how he achieves that?

 

Inner death has +500% damage (not OP at all) on crit and fairly high base dmg. Empower increases the base damage further. With the passive for +100 acc and pen it always crits and always achieves overpen for 1.3 multiplier. Finally, turning wheel adds 5% multiplicative fire lash per wound and dance generates wounds for free. And yeah, it's probably a hellwalker for +1 might per wound on top.

 

The obvious nerfs are reducing the +500% crit damage to something reasonable and nerfing the crap out of +100 acc/pen on empowered abilities cause that's just silly.

 

Ok... I try to follow, so he empowered Inner Death or his base attacks? What gives that passive +100 acc and pen? Is it also achievable with Shattered Pillar?

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It's so obviously "OP" that there must be significant game mechanisms to counteract it---aside from just requiring a lot of wounds. The devs can overlook things but they're not completely incompetent.

 

Lol, you really belive that? I guess you don't remember pillars of eternity barbarian retaliation build at all :D. That was as broken as that, you could one-shot bosses if there were enemies around it. Also Adra Dragon standard tactic with Shock Touch?  Devs always miss a lot of most broken builds/combos in game simply because they have no time to test every possible combo/mechanic. Especiall Obsidian which is quite small team compare to huge developers, who also oversight a lot of stuff like that. I could tell you a lot of examples from various RPGs that have broken stuff like that till today and every new RPG have things like that.

 

Belive me there is not mechanic counter to this. It's just another super broken combo found in game. Will be patched sooner or later. Better have fun with it now :)

Edited by Voltron

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Let me guess, empowered inner death and that that +100 accuracy +100 pen on empowered attacks passive (obviously not broken at all). Also turning wheel with + fire damage and enduring dance to generate wounds as seen in the logs.

 

 

So can anyone explain the OP build and how he achieves that?

 

Inner death has +500% damage (not OP at all) on crit and fairly high base dmg. Empower increases the base damage further. With the passive for +100 acc and pen it always crits and always achieves overpen for 1.3 multiplier. Finally, turning wheel adds 5% multiplicative fire lash per wound and dance generates wounds for free. And yeah, it's probably a hellwalker for +1 might per wound on top.

 

The obvious nerfs are reducing the +500% crit damage to something reasonable and nerfing the crap out of +100 acc/pen on empowered abilities cause that's just silly.

 

Ok... I try to follow, so he empowered Inner Death or his base attacks? What gives that passive +100 acc and pen? Is it also achievable with Shattered Pillar?

 

You can't empower base attacks, only abilities. By "base damage" i mean unmodified damage of inner death. There's a PL9 Monk passive giving +100 acc and pen to all empowered abilities. Shattered pillar would do less damage because his might would be lower due to lack of +1 might/wound. He'll still do a ****load of damage though. 

Edited by MadDemiurg

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It's so obviously "OP" that there must be significant game mechanisms to counteract it---aside from just requiring a lot of wounds. The devs can overlook things but they're not completely incompetent.

 

Lol, you really belive that? I guess you don't remember pillars of eternity barbarian retaliation build at all :D. Devs always miss a lot of most broken builds/combos in game simply because they have no time to test every possible combo/mechanic. Especiall Obsidian which is quite small team compare to huge developers, who also oversight a lot of stuff like that. I could tell you a lot of examples from various RPGs that have broken stuff like that till today and every new RPG have things like that.

 

 

As I said, they can overlook some combos. But this is just extremely obvious +a gazillion damage on crit with the +100 accuracy on empower right next to it. They'd have to be completely incompetent to play single class Monk and not see it. 

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It's so obviously "OP" that there must be significant game mechanisms to counteract it---aside from just requiring a lot of wounds. The devs can overlook things but they're not completely incompetent.

 

Lol, you really belive that? I guess you don't remember pillars of eternity barbarian retaliation build at all :D. Devs always miss a lot of most broken builds/combos in game simply because they have no time to test every possible combo/mechanic. Especiall Obsidian which is quite small team compare to huge developers, who also oversight a lot of stuff like that. I could tell you a lot of examples from various RPGs that have broken stuff like that till today and every new RPG have things like that.

 

 

As I said, they can overlook some combos. But this is just extremely obvious +a gazillion damage on crit with the +100 accuracy on empower right next to it. They'd have to be completely incompetent to play single class Monk and not see it. 

 

And it's possible. They would not build in-game mechanics just to make sure they counter as you said yourself "obvious" broken combo- that would not make sense at all. It's probably a simple mistake in numbers, for example +500% instead of 100% or lower that was supposed to be there but they got numbers wrong. Actually numbers tweaking is most common in RPG-like games after release, as some numbers were simply too low or too high.

 

Remember that when you make and test game you use **** ton of different game builds, some for close beta, some for inner testing, some for alpha, beta etc etc. I know, I worked in industry. It's very easy that a lot of things from different builds are overlooked in the end when release build (final) hits.

 

Besides in single-player RPG game- who cares if there are some broken stuff there? If people will want they will use console and give themself godmode anyway. It's not PvP.

Edited by Voltron

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You give too much credit to playtesters. Higher level abilities weren't even available in backer beta. I wouldn't be surprised if they've put an extra zero and didn't test it altogether.

Edited by MadDemiurg

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