dunehunter Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 1) in PoE 1 lash damage will need to bypass 1/4 of target DR, which makes stack different lash not that effective against high DR enemies. In DF, this is totally different because there is no DR, lash becomes extremely powerful, or a bit too powerful. So I suggest to nerf all lash based abilities a bit. Also there some bug with priest spiritual weapon too, either lash is missing or the number is incorrect with weapon info. 2) should lash affect spells too? If some abilities can offers lashes that affect spells, it gonna provide good synergies. Like the PoE1 monk build that do damage through battle-forge, flame shield and lash. Edited April 9, 2018 by dunehunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THCRaven Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1) in PoE 1 lash damage will need to bypass 1/4 of target DR, which makes stack different lash not that effective against high DR enemies. In DF, this is totally different because there is no DR, lash becomes extremely powerful, or a bit too powerful. So I suggest to nerf all lash based abilities a bit. Also there some bug with priest spiritual weapon too, either lash is missing or the number is incorrect with weapon info. 2) should lash affect spells too? If some abilities can offers lashes that affect spells, it gonna provide good synergies. Like the PoE1 monk build that do damage through battle-forge, flame shield and lash. Fireball with Ice lash ? xD it's not consistent with the system imo, in fantasy and high fantasy I've seen enchanted weapons and weapon enchantments but not spell enchantment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunehunter Posted April 9, 2018 Author Share Posted April 9, 2018 1) in PoE 1 lash damage will need to bypass 1/4 of target DR, which makes stack different lash not that effective against high DR enemies. In DF, this is totally different because there is no DR, lash becomes extremely powerful, or a bit too powerful. So I suggest to nerf all lash based abilities a bit. Also there some bug with priest spiritual weapon too, either lash is missing or the number is incorrect with weapon info. 2) should lash affect spells too? If some abilities can offers lashes that affect spells, it gonna provide good synergies. Like the PoE1 monk build that do damage through battle-forge, flame shield and lash. Fireball with Ice lash ? xD it's not consistent with the system imo, in fantasy and high fantasy I've seen enchanted weapons and weapon enchantments but not spell enchantment. Eternal flame does add lash to spells, so you will see flamed version of mind blades and etc. And I’m pretty sure someone here like the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeroer Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 I think that's the reason why stuff like FoD was nerfed from 50% to 30%. Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDemiurg Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 Spell enchantment = metamagic. Currently there's too few things that boost spell damage, making it quite weak compared to weapon damage. We can of course add new things to boost it, but if all lash buffs work with spells we won't have to, plus it would add some new possibilities for multiclass builds. I would also allow sneak attacking for single target spells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilfazer Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 1) in PoE 1 lash damage will need to bypass 1/4 of target DR Because base damage had to bypass DR. In PoE2 base damage has to bypass AR just like lashes. Or am i wrong and lashes don't care about AR? FoD is a winner not in PoE2 but in 1 (unless lashes ignore AR...). It does 50% of base damage but doesn't have to go through 50% DR, just 25%. Vancian =/= per rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreaColombo Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 In Deadfire, that I know of, elemental lashes are checked separately against the relevant elemental AR. 1 "Time is not your enemy. Forever is." — Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment "It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers." — Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunehunter Posted April 14, 2018 Author Share Posted April 14, 2018 1) in PoE 1 lash damage will need to bypass 1/4 of target DR Because base damage had to bypass DR. In PoE2 base damage has to bypass AR just like lashes. Or am i wrong and lashes don't care about AR? FoD is a winner not in PoE2 but in 1 (unless lashes ignore AR...). It does 50% of base damage but doesn't have to go through 50% DR, just 25%. Multiple source of lash has to calculate DR seperately in PoE 1, and there are a lot more abilities has lash, Imo they should all be balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilfazer Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Multiple source of lash has to calculate DR seperately in PoE 1 And now each lash has to go through AR. Sorry, i fail to see how current armor system is more advantageous to lashes than previous one unless armor gets penetrated all the time but that would be a much broader issue. Vancian =/= per rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunehunter Posted April 15, 2018 Author Share Posted April 15, 2018 (edited) Multiple source of lash has to calculate DR seperately in PoE 1 And now each lash has to go through AR.Sorry, i fail to see how current armor system is more advantageous to lashes than previous one unless armor gets penetrated all the time but that would be a much broader issue. In old system penetration doesn’t affect lash, that’s a inherent disadvantage. You weapon penetration could not help your lash to bypass DR, but in DF your lash penetration is equal to your weapon, to help you get through AR. So in PoE 1 no matter how high your penetration is, your lash will be severely deducted by high DR. That’s why all lash abilities feels powerful in current system so they need a global nerf compare to PoE 1. Edited April 15, 2018 by dunehunter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreaColombo Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 I'm not sure I follow. In PoE a lash would apply 25% of your damage against 25% of the enemy's elemental DR, using the same DR bypass value as your main weapon; in Deadfire, a lash goes against the relevant elemental AR using the same AP value as your main weapon. It's a consistent translation of lashes from the old system to the new one. If lashes call for a nerf, then so does regular weapon damage on the grounds that it works in the exact same way. But I don't think a nerf is called for at all. Underpenetration already leads to reduced damage and elemental lashes can underpenetrate even if your main damage doesn't, because they are checked separately. "Time is not your enemy. Forever is." — Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment "It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers." — Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunehunter Posted April 15, 2018 Author Share Posted April 15, 2018 I'm not sure I follow. In PoE a lash would apply 25% of your damage against 25% of the enemy's elemental DR, using the same DR bypass value as your main weapon; If I understand the old system correctly, I don’t think DR bypass of weapon will also be used by lash, for example estoc, penetration modal won’t affect lash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreaColombo Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Been a while since I played PoE so it’s possible I’m misremembering. "Time is not your enemy. Forever is." — Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment "It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers." — Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeroer Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 (edited) DR bypass doesn't apply to lashes in PoE. Thus, things like FoD + Intense Flames + Burning Lash on a blunderbuss are a bad idea if the enemies' DR is high, no matter the DR bypass you were able to stack (i mean if the enemy dies from the pierce damage then who cares, right? Just saying... ). Edited April 15, 2018 by Boeroer Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djinnxy Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Penetration: Modified the Penetration system slightly, along with how Penetration displays in the mouse-over tooltip in combat. When your Penetration is below the target's Armor, there is now a gradual reduction in damage. The current values are (and may be tweaked as we play with them a bit): -1 Pen = 75% Damage -2 Pen = 50% Damage -3 or more Pen = 25% Damage It's still 100% damage up until you are at double Pen, and then 130% damage from there. Along with this change, Penetration will now ONLY display on the combat tooltip when you are either BELOW Pen, or you don't yet know the target's Armor value for the damage type you'll deal. This is taken from the patch notes. Afaik this didn't exist in poe. I like the way it works. It's possible that's been tweeked since and I missed it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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