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ArcZero

Awesome game but lack of talents and low-synergy druid/monk

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Honestly, if "you get bonuses with weapons" is your unique class feature for Fighters, the class probably needs some work. :p

 

Everyone gets to fight with weapons, so everyone should be able to customize their weapon-fighting capabilities, at least somewhat. If the Fighter gets different/better bonuses, then so be it. But "here, have some numerical bonuses to some stuff that everyone gets" has never been a good class-distinguishing factor.

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Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Honestly, if "you get bonuses with weapons" is your unique class feature for Fighters, the class probably needs some work. :p

 

Everyone gets to fight with weapons, so everyone should be able to customize their weapon-fighting capabilities, at least somewhat. If the Fighter gets different/better bonuses, then so be it. But "here, have some numerical bonuses to some stuff that everyone gets" has never been a good class-distinguishing factor.

 

I have to disagree with you there. I find that passive numerical bonuses often add more to the flavor of characters than special activated abilities. Like CHA saves for Paladins in D&D for example, it's an innate difference rather than just a trick you've learned.


The most important step you take in your life is the next one.

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There are lots of fighter possibilities:

- As several have suggested, a passive which significantly enhances weapon modals 

- Passive which grants additional weapon modals

    - an enhanced two-handed style etc. which grants an interesting additional modal for all two-handed etc.

- enhancements to the stances

- maybe a "disarm" ability if it's not too hard to implement (and enemy AI can pick their weapon / shield / potions / grimoires back up)

Edited by SaruNi

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I personally don't see why they need to do anything  I think fighters are fine right now, especially if their end up with all of their tool from PoE1.  They also have one of the strongest subclasses in the game.

Edited by bonarbill

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I personally don't see why they need to do anything  I think fighters are fine right now, especially if their end up with all of their tool from PoE1.  They also have one of the strongest subclasses in the game.

 

You're aware of the changes coming in the next beta patch right? A number of currently Fighter exclusive passive abilities are going to be added to the proficiencies, allowing all classes to take them without using one of their ability points. Fighters aren't getting anything to replace this loss, in fact they're still going to be able to take those passives as abilities even though they could take them as proficiencies for free instead

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I personally don't see why they need to do anything  I think fighters are fine right now, especially if their end up with all of their tool from PoE1.  They also have one of the strongest subclasses in the game.

 

You're aware of the changes coming in the next beta patch right? A number of currently Fighter exclusive passive abilities are going to be added to the proficiencies, allowing all classes to take them without using one of their ability points. Fighters aren't getting anything to replace this loss, in fact they're still going to be able to take those passives as abilities even though they could take them as proficiencies for free instead

 

 

Wouldn't be so bad if you could take both and they stacked... but I'd prefer something more interesting.

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I personally don't see why they need to do anything  I think fighters are fine right now, especially if their end up with all of their tool from PoE1.  They also have one of the strongest subclasses in the game.

 

You're aware of the changes coming in the next beta patch right? A number of currently Fighter exclusive passive abilities are going to be added to the proficiencies, allowing all classes to take them without using one of their ability points. Fighters aren't getting anything to replace this loss, in fact they're still going to be able to take those passives as abilities even though they could take them as proficiencies for free instead

 

 

I'm aware since I have been watching the streams and I still don't see the problem as long as fighters still have all of their abilities from PoE1 in the end.  # of abilities doesn't determine a class usefulness.

Edited by bonarbill

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I agree with bonarbill here. You can't determine balance by watching arbitrary stuff like the number of exclusive abilities and such, you have to be able to observe the class in the complete metagame and the truly important part is whether or not the class will offer something unique that other classes do not. I like the idea that fighters don't really have anything special abut them, but that they learn a lot of fighting maneuvers and as such are extremely versatile in combat situations. I think giving the basic fighter some unique magical "soul"- ability kinda ruins the fantasy for me, the fantasy of a strong and disciplined person carrying on against all sorts of weird magics and otherworldly powers through sheer combat prowess with the "try casting spells with a sword in your throat" mentality.


The most important step you take in your life is the next one.

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I have to disagree with you there. I find that passive numerical bonuses often add more to the flavor of characters than special activated abilities. Like CHA saves for Paladins in D&D for example, it's an innate difference rather than just a trick you've learned.

 

I feel you might have overshot my point. I don't mean that everyone's passive math should be identical, and all the differences should only be active, unique abilities. However, IF you were to go with either extreme, for example, I'd rather have all the classes with identical base math and different active-use abilities (even if they're passive modals, they're still things that you're actively choosing to employ and time within the tactical combat, etc.), than all the classes have identical active-use options and just wildly different passive math.

 

Ideally, I'd rather have a combination of both, but the options at your disposal are an entirely different facet to gameplay, on top of just "Could I take 3 hits here, or two?" passive factors in the background of whatever else you're already doing. I've always found the traditional Fighter roles to be stupidly restrictive, "You stand here like a slab of beef and take punishment and cleave goblins in twain" notions, when really they should have all kinds of cool stuff to choose from and do, and not just "When you keep doing the same things, even more numbers get crunched!". That's not useless, but it is quite lacking.

 

It's all about the approach. If passive math is intentionally supposed to be THE thing that makes a class a class, I find that to be a horrible idea, because passive math is already a part of/a difference between all the other classes. Whereas, "you can do all kinds of crazy elemental stuff, and other classes cannot" is an actual unique set of options to play with for an elemental caster, as opposed to any other character that isn't an elemental caster. Sure, he's still doing damage, and he still has health and armor and resistances and attack speed and recovery time, but he's doing actual different things with all that math.

 

Axes and arrows are both made of wood and metal, but they're distinctly different ways to employ wood and metal.


Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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