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RTwP means Real Time with Pause! [combat-speed nerf suggestion & rant]

Suggestion Please Dont bend over Rant (but not too much)

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#1
Hariwulf

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What is this? A slug race? A sloth parade?

Real time with pause means Real Time, what is this thing you did with the combat?


You did it right in Pillars of Eternity Act I.

Normal Speed should be in real time, and without trained warriors staring at an enemy bashing their skulls for 4-6 seconds!

Slow Speed should be reintroduced, same as it was in POE 1.

Fast Speed should be as it is now.

On top of that, there is Pause.


Just make sure to provide a simple and clear Tutorial and even the King of Dumblandia will get it.

Wanna really help people with mental problems? Put 2 Slow Speed modes instead. Slow and Super Slow!
(and call it console-speed, haha!)


Thanks for reading! :)

PS:
A friend wanted to say hello, the only one that appreciate the new slowness!

18a24a79e8b643580595a0b84fbac547.jpg


FINALLY HE CAN PLAY TOO!!!

Edited by Hariwulf, 21 November 2017 - 03:02 PM.


#2
Wormerine

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Wait, we all agree combat in Deadfire is too fast right? I love Starcraft too, but if I want to play a game requiring 300APM... well I play Starcraft.
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#3
AndreaColombo

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Starcraft doesn’t have pause during which to issue commands :)

Why does everyone want normal speed to be a slow drag? Watching my guys sit idly through an endless recovery cycle or my casters take forever to miss an enemy with their spell is the opposite of fun.

Can’t we just have a slow mode for people who want slower combat like in the first game and get normal speed back to reasonable recovery and casting times?
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#4
theBalthazar

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I don't understand why there is debate :

 

the objective of devs is : boost general speed of the gameplay.

 

4 mains options :

 

PAUSE (stop) - SLOW (POE1)  NORMAL (POE2 beta)  FAST (>) - VERY FAST (>>)

 

(Sometimes, in POE1 I wanted go faster for travel...)

 

And a short ruler+cursor. (custom speed) 

 

When you use custom speed. Basic options are disable.

 

When you click on basic options again : the custom cursor moves itself to the right level.

 

Global Buttons (like now) + Short ruler.


Edited by theBalthazar, 22 November 2017 - 03:05 AM.


#5
Wormerine

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Starcraft doesn’t have pause during which to issue commands :)


Haha fun fact no one cares about: played Starcraft for the first time after years of playing IE games. Everytime something happened I would hammer space to pause a game. At which camera would relocate the most recent event. It was all very confusing.

Sure, I would welcome slowmo back. I am just surprised someone makes a post “combat ain’t fast enough”. I also replied to snark by snark. Not much constructive criticism coming from my side here.

But on a serious note. I think Obsidian’s line of thinking is: normal speed is not really fit for gameplay and most of our player base (just a guess) uses slowmo. So we should make a slowmo a default speed and make sure all animations, abilities look and feel satisfying in this speed so majority of players won’t have to watch PoE through Snyder’s vision.

Not sure if it’s achievable without absurd pauses between swings.

#6
Hariwulf

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Poe 1 was fine.

 

About the speed modes: I suggested to add an extra-slow speed, as well as reintroduce the slow one from the first game.

 

About the recovery time: It's Real Time with Pause, if I'd want to see sitting ducks, I'd play Turn-based games.

 

Also, providing freedom of choice to player is often better than taking it away, especially when the choice was a neat mechanic.



#7
Christliar

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Fast combat introduces a slew of problems that plague the whole game from start to finish, so it's not a good choice. It's not fast combat per se, it's the way recovery worked in PoE1. The shortest recovery you could get was insanely fast, to the point of being unable to manage 6 PCs and follow what is going on (remember the "game is too micromanagement heavy" complaints?). The unorganized and undisciplined individual "rounds" created a very frontloaded combat process in which mobs had only 1 gimmick - unload their entire repertoire in the first second of combat and then spam stuns to try to control how many actions you perform because they can't keep up otherwise, making Prayers and immunities overpowered since they nullified the enemies' only gimmick. It was all very improvised and disjointed. Combat needs to be reined in, with strict, manageable and consistent action times.


Edited by Christliar, 22 November 2017 - 11:21 AM.

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#8
Hariwulf

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Fast combat introduces a slew of problems that plague the whole game from start to finish, so it's not a good choice. It's not fast combat per se, it's the way recovery worked in PoE1. The shortest recovery you could get was insanely fast, to the point of being unable to manage 6 PCs and follow what is going on (remember the "game is too micromanagement heavy" complaints?). The unorganized and undisciplined individual "rounds" created a very frontloaded combat process in which mobs had only 1 gimmick - unload their entire repertoire in the first second of combat and then spam stuns to try to control how many actions you perform because they can't keep up otherwise, making Prayers and immunities overpowered since they nullified the enemies' only gimmick. It was all very improvised and disjointed. Combat needs to be reined in, with strict, manageable and consistent action times.

 

First, combat have never been "fast", unless You pressed Fast Mode (unless we live in 2 different realities). Second, Real time with Pause means Real Time, duh. Third, you will have complaints always and regardless, so "bending over" is not the best strategy, because you risk to disappoint your "loyal clientele" for no actual gain. 

 

You can Slow Down the Game in POE1 and on top of that you can Pause. And if the Devs implement a second slow mode (that is, even slower), then also a paraplegic could play the game without even the need to Pause.

I, as many others, never had a problem with any Infinity engine game, and found POE to be by far the best.

 

Moreover, you are attributing AI flaws to combat speed, and these are 2 different things.

The AI of POE1 was not the brightest, and on top of that we had other minor issues, but those are not "time-related". We have a better AI this time, so it's quite probable that this new little marvel can be tuned more and better than its predecessor. 

 

Lastly, I am suggesting to give more options to the player, and to let him or her decide which setting works best for them. 

 

I played POE for 400+ hours, on Classic and higher difficulty. Never slowed down the combat speed if not during Dragons and Bosses fights, and I'm telling you: I am far from being a "pro". This issue is fixable in way to suit everyone. And that's all I ask for.

 

Thanks for reading



#9
Christliar

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The problem is that it's not humanly possible to process everything happening so fast in PoE1. At least on PotD, lower difficulties don't really bring out PoE's myriad of combat problems. The game played almost like a hack and slash alla Grim Dawn, but with 6 PCs, it was maddening and unmanageable trying to understand who is doing what and when if you weren't on slow mode.



#10
Hariwulf

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The problem is that it's not humanly possible to process everything happening so fast in PoE1. At least on PotD, lower difficulties don't really bring out PoE's myriad of combat problems. The game played almost like a hack and slash alla Grim Dawn, but with 6 PCs, it was maddening and unmanageable trying to understand who is doing what and when if you weren't on slow mode.

 

Sorry to disagree again, I do respect your opinion, but this is another point on which we diverge:

 

- Removing a party member was unneeded and dumb, since is the Player to decide how many he/ she wants, not the game. In a party of 6, permanently removing one character is a huge limitation to the tactical possibilities. Plus, if I recall correctly, you get better Exp with reduced party, but don't quite me on that.

 

- If you play PotD you are asking for the maximum challenge. You get what you want. But still, you can slow-mo and Pause.

 

- I assure you, I am 100% human and, as I said, I am not any "pro", I can be decent at best, but I never had problem to follow my party, in the worst case scenario (such as occluded view AND tons of enemies) a little Pause and 6 clicks would make the situation clear.

 

Not totally sold on Grim Dawn, surely on Normal difficulty the game feels more...open? Streamlined? But that's part of the balancing, as well as what segment of users Obsidian wants to satisfy the most. And here comes the issue: the only thing that these recent changes achieved, is to make a "RTwP newbie" feel "better" about himself. Which is kinda bad, because to pursue this goal, so much was lost. And I really, honestly and wholeheartedly, don't think that slowing the game will magically resolve issues that are deeply nested in core mechanics' execution. Besides, people are complaining about the slowness already now, think how it will be at release... Before was too fast, then too slow... It's nonsense. And that's why I would prefer Obsidian to let each player tailor the experience according his or her personal taste and need. In the end, that's the best solution. That, and improving AI and other core mechanics, of course. 

 

Edit: grammar. Sorry but here is late night and I am K.O.


Edited by Hariwulf, 22 November 2017 - 03:03 PM.






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Suggestion, Please, Dont bend over, Rant (but not too much)

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