Backstabbing doable?

[SaruNi]

The blunderbuss also got an additional nerf: now it's 5 pellets instead of 6.

 

But now can dual wield pistols and blunderbusses which makes them good for full attack abilities - also for Backstab theoretically.

 

With 3 weapon slots and dual blunderbusses in each slot you can combine Combusting Wounds with 30 hits. This should annihilate most foes in theory. Can't recall the casting time for Comb. Wounds though.

 

I wonder what would happen if you combine the blunderbuss modal with Backstab...?

 

The Blunderbuss modal also triggers Streetfighter's buff (it causes Flanked, and the Perception penalty can be countered by Black Jacket's Tactical Barrage). Blunderbuss modal AoE or rod modal AoE should work with backstab once it's working with ranged weapons. Confounding blinds + blunderbuss + black jacket with 8 blunderbusses = 20 ranged shots in rapid succession that strip away deflection, and your 5th weapon can be something completely different. Alternately with mobs and Swift Flurry the blunderbuss AoE should trigger an AoE version of swift flurry, allowing you to one-shot / infinity-shot mobs.

[SaruNi]

The damage per hit on Firearms are not longer highest because 1) their basic damage is nerfed in POE2, a great sword has same maximum damage as arquebus, 2) they have Blunt Critical, which is -25% crit damage. 

 

So actually Great Sword + Savage Attack does most damage per hit now. The high accuracy modal of Arquebus doesn't boost its damage because their critical attack does same damage as normal attacks.

 

Therefore it's kinda pointless to sneak attack with ranged weapon now...

 

Except that you don't risk getting hit in melee (and don't have to micromanage so much). 

 

Firearms have reload time, but 0 recovery time. That means that you can backstab and then immediately escape or use Shadowing Beyond. With a greatsword, you have to stand there waiting for your recovery to end. And if you're quickswitching as a Black Jacket, you can fire many firearms in rapid succession.

 

Also, since armor only affects recovery time, not reload time, you can wear the heaviest armor with no attack speed penalty. So your assassin becomes much tankier. And with a blunderbuss's five shots, even if the AoE doesn't backstab (hopefully it does), you're almost guaranteed to at least hit.

[dunehunter]

 

The damage per hit on Firearms are not longer highest because 1) their basic damage is nerfed in POE2, a great sword has same maximum damage as arquebus, 2) they have Blunt Critical, which is -25% crit damage. 

 

So actually Great Sword + Savage Attack does most damage per hit now. The high accuracy modal of Arquebus doesn't boost its damage because their critical attack does same damage as normal attacks.

 

Therefore it's kinda pointless to sneak attack with ranged weapon now...

 

Except that you don't risk getting hit in melee (and don't have to micromanage so much). 

 

Firearms have reload time, but 0 recovery time. That means that you can backstab and then immediately escape or use Shadowing Beyond. With a greatsword, you have to stand there waiting for your recovery to end. And if you're quickswitching as a Black Jacket, you can fire many firearms in rapid succession.

 

Also, since armor only affects recovery time, not reload time, you can wear the heaviest armor with no attack speed penalty. So your assassin becomes much tankier. And with a blunderbuss's five shots, even if the AoE doesn't backstab (hopefully it does), you're almost guaranteed to at least hit.

 

 

Ah that's true, that 0 recovery time is super neat for Backstab -> Turn invisible immediately after shoot -> Reload and backstab again.

 

Yeah I wish I can do the POE 1 style arquebus swapping Bleak Walker, but I don't wanna multiclass into Black Jack as I feel they are pretty weak to pick. I hope the extra weapon set and quick swap can be moved to general talent pools.

Edited November 27, 2017 by dunehunter

[Boeroer]

An arquebus (activated modal) Black Jacket with Quick Switch and Arms Bearer, multiclassed with an Assassin is pretty nice. You can use Shadowing Beyond three times with enough guile and therefore empty all four arquebuses with Assassination/Backstab. At the moment the only problem is that guns don't trigger Backstab from invisibility.

 

A Black Jacket with Arms Bearer and Quick Switch + Sharpshooter is also cool with dual pistol or blunderbuss. The only bad thing is you have to micromanage the switching. If there would be an AI scripting option that would allow to switch before reloading starts until all guns are emptied, that would be nice.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Boeroer

[SaruNi]

Does Sneak Attack work with spells now?

 

[Edit: I was reading the damage roll box wrong, Sneak Attack doesn't work with spells, or at least not the ones I tested]

 

Just tested it, works with Twin Stones and other spells, if I'm reading it correctly.

Edited November 28, 2017 by SaruNi

[SaruNi]

(Just realized you can hover over and press shift to see exactly what's contributing to the damage. Sneak Attack shows up there for spells, or least DD spells.)

[dunehunter]

Don't understand why Backstab is not a full attack but primary tho, in a lot games u can see rogue backstabbing with two dagger at same time.

[Aramintai]

So, is it true right now that Rogue is not the best dps-er? Aside from Assassin bonus from stealth (and big penalty) he doesn't have class abilities that deal with penetration. Seems like a very high maintenance class with all that stealth hurdles just to get a good stab at an enemy, all the while other melee classes in builds thread seem to have much more to offer without jumping through many hoops to both kick ass and stay alive.

Kind of a bummer, and not just for rogue, but for all classes - the new penetration system is in but we still have old abilities from POE1 where there was no such system to deal with.

I hope all abilities will be extensively reworked - more abilities added, general passive abilities added, penetration abilities\spells added for each class.

[Boeroer]

Don't understand why Backstab is not a full attack but primary tho, in a lot games u can see rogue backstabbing with two dagger at same time.

Right - and even further: why are Full Attacks for daggers the same as for swords or hammers? I opened a new tread about this weird behavior of Primary Attacks/Full Attacks and so on. Maybe you want to leave a comment there?

Edited November 27, 2017 by Boeroer

[SaruNi]

I was wrong about Sneak Attack applying to spell damage---the pop-up screen detailing the damage roll does list Sneak Attack but it's grayed out with a word starting "Condition" next to it. Unfortunately the word goes off the edge of the screen, but I'm pretty sure it says something like "Condition not met". When it does work, it's not grayed out.

 

The description of attack and damage rolls is also difficult to read because it overlaps with the text scroll underneath it---so the characters are superimposed over each other. Since you have to hold shift to see the attack / damage roll box, it would be better if the text box had a solid color background.

Edited November 28, 2017 by SaruNi

[Boeroer]

Ah, ok. No problem. it would have been too good anyways.

[SaruNi]

Also, while offensive chants can be chanted without exiting stealth, if you actually get within range and they do an attack roll, you automatically exit stealth/invisibility (that definitely would have been broken, especially since having your entire party either stealthed or invisible no longer causes combat to end...).