Best AoE class for TC

[Lampros]

I am trying to refine my game in PotD but eventually I want to try TC some time later. And in this context, the biggest issue for me seems to be the need for reliable CC, and I am not sure how I can get it. I am used to using a Wizard in this role, but a lot of his early CC spells have friendly-fire possibilities, so I am practicing not using them (because I can't see the lay lines in TC). And it's very difficult early going without stuff like Slicken or Chillfog. The problem with Cipher is that he cannot start the game with a massive AoE CC, due to Focus limits. So I am trying Barbarian as this guide suggests http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=758240760 but he won't have CC until Tall Grass. Besides, even with it, I question how reliable the Tall Grass Barbarian will be. On the one hand, he needs to crit, and everyone but the Fighter in my current crew is having a rough time getting crits in PotD. On the other hand, even if he can crit, the very backrow won't be immediately accessible.

 

So whom can I bring into the game who will be reliable AoE CC - especially early- and mid-game until the Wizard picks up the AoE petrify and other late-game goodies? Is Ranger the only option here? I am also considering a ranged Rogue again, but he's only going to lock a single target down with Borresaine - unless I switch targets with every shot.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Lampros

[Torm51]

Use the Wizard and if you want more CC bring a Druid. I also like Priests.  That is my most rocking back line.  You bring the same exact spells that you use in non PoTD.  You just have to aim a little better and place AEO with FF a bit farther back.  So you didn't get the enemy front liners but you CCed there casters.  Tank the front liners and kill the casters and the front line will go down after.  Or CC the back line casters  by lowering their ACC or proning them while you take out the enemy front line.

 

Friendly Fire. Who cares.  A Paladin will either get grazed or Missed anyway.  Especially in the early game.  In the late I don't care cause even though my caster ACC is sky so high so are my defenses.  I will get a graze or a miss and even if I get hit I have Vets recovery and other passive healing (or Lay on Hands depending on build).  Its more important that I CC.  The same goes for the rest of your front liners.  Even a DPS Fighter has recovery and its good enough to keep him up if hes prone.  A chanter with a tank build will not get hit much either way even if he is hit by FF and the enemy will also be cced so you cut even.

 

You can also pick tank races that are highly resistant to CC.  Coastal Amauea get a +30 to prone and stun.  A Coastal who is a Paladin will very rarely take a knock down from slicken.

Pale Elf.  Literally just stand in fire or frost who cares.  With some type of endurance recovery, if hes a chanter, fighter or Paladin he will not go down.

 

Act 1 Most clutch Wizard Spells on PoTD:  Concelhauts Parasitic Staff (its exceptional and this act 1 great ACC) stack that with Zealous Focus and your Wizard is a great battle mage even if you don't plan him to be in the late game. CC be damned in ACT 1 he will have ACC with that staff and crush Raedrics Paladins.  Zealous Focus helps a lot if you do not take Edlritch Aim (it suppresses focus)  I think Aim lasts too short so I like ZF.  If you don't have a Paladin you can get ACC with Blessing from a priest or Gallants Focus or a potion.

 

Slicken:  Could care less about proning my front line.  Aim a little farther back and you will do fine.

 

Chill Fog: This can suck on your frontline just aim at the backline and blind their wizards and priests.

 

Curse of Blackened Sight: its PotD there is a lot of bad guys.  Well get ****ed cause they are blinded as they cluster and there is no FF to this spell.  This spell stays useful throughout the game its one of my Favs. 

 

Miasma of Dullness:  The AOE isn't huge Aim at the back of the enemy front line and you will be fine.  You might miss a few but if you get another few that's fine.

 

Rolling Flame: Again I Don't care about the spell damage to my front line.  Blind them, let them cluster and fire massive AEO (Iconic Projection from a priest and this spell, plus the blinding druid fire spell or burst of summer flames will annihilate most of Raedrics crew).

 

Wizards Double: More deflection wizard will not get touched

 

Arcane Veil + Hardened Veil: Wizard will be untouchable against deflection.  Make sure you CC and kill the uncontrolled mob that is attacking your backline.  With Concelhauts Staff and ZF they will go down fast.

 

Against Raedric I don't run for the door.  I stand at the stares with a thick enough frontline (3) and wait for them to cluster and Blind the frontline (-minus reflect and Dex) fire Iconic Projection, Burst of Summer Flame, Arcane assault (raw damage no FF) and Rolling flame and 80% are dead or Near Death and its clean up time.  Also having a chanter with White Worm explosion (forgot the name) will destroy them.  Look at Boer's tactics.

 

If your burst AOE DPS is not good enough in that fight you might be toast because there paladins have unlimited Lay on Hands it looks like lmao.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Torm51

[mosspit]

Actually Ciphers has one of the best starting CC with Whispers of Treason. Sure, it is not AoE, but the thing is it will pull aggro away from your team and you can initiate with it. Maybe even cause the enemy to waste skills on the charmed enemy.

 

Yes, yes more micro and all that jazz. But good thing is that most of the Ciphers powers are Foe AoE, so the lack of targeting is not that bad.

 

I find the best AoE for me is Druid's Relentless Storm. It is very disruptive to the enemies whilst giving your party a fair bit of breathing room.

[Torm51]

Actually Ciphers has one of the best starting CC with Whispers of Treason. Sure, it is not AoE, but the thing is it will pull aggro away from your team and you can initiate with it. Maybe even cause the enemy to waste skills on the charmed enemy.

 

Yes, yes more micro and all that jazz. But good thing is that most of the Ciphers powers are Foe AoE, so the lack of targeting is not that bad.

 

I find the best AoE for me is Druid's Relentless Storm. It is very disruptive to the enemies whilst giving your party a fair bit of breathing room.

Also Tenuous grasp is really good.  Although I actually think its more useful later cause its cheap on focus and you can consistently make dragons fumble around.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Torm51

[Lampros]

Use the Wizard and if you want more CC bring a Druid. I also like Priests.  That is my most rocking back line.  You bring the same exact spells that you use in non PoTD.  You just have to aim a little better and place AEO with FF a bit farther back.  So you didn't get the enemy front liners but you CCed there casters.  Tank the front liners and kill the casters and the front line will go down after.  Or CC the back line casters  by lowering their ACC or proning them while you take out the enemy front line.

 

Friendly Fire. Who cares.  A Paladin will either get grazed or Missed anyway.  Especially in the early game.  In the late I don't care cause even though my caster ACC is sky so high so are my defenses.  I will get a graze or a miss and even if I get hit I have Vets recovery and other passive healing (or Lay on Hands depending on build).  Its more important that I CC.  The same goes for the rest of your front liners.  Even a DPS Fighter has recovery and its good enough to keep him up if hes prone.  A chanter with a tank build will not get hit much either way even if he is hit by FF and the enemy will also be cced so you cut even.

 

You can also pick tank races that are highly resistant to CC.  Coastal Amauea get a +30 to prone and stun.  A Coastal who is a Paladin will very rarely take a knock down from slicken.

Pale Elf.  Literally just stand in fire or frost who cares.  With some type of endurance recovery, if hes a chanter, fighter or Paladin he will not go down.

 

Act 1 Most clutch Wizard Spells on PoTD:  Concelhauts Parasitic Staff (its exceptional and this act 1 great ACC) stack that with Zealous Focus and your Wizard is a great battle mage even if you don't plan him to be in the late game. CC be damned in ACT 1 he will have ACC with that staff and crush Raedrics Paladins.  Zealous Focus helps a lot if you do not take Edlritch Aim (it suppresses focus)  I think Aim lasts too short so I like ZF.  If you don't have a Paladin you can get ACC with Blessing from a priest or Gallants Focus or a potion.

 

Slicken:  Could care less about proning my front line.  Aim a little farther back and you will do fine.

 

Chill Fog: This can suck on your frontline just aim at the backline and blind their wizards and priests.

 

Curse of Blackened Sight: its PotD there is a lot of bad guys.  Well get ****ed cause they are blinded as they cluster and there is no FF to this spell.  This spell stays useful throughout the game its one of my Favs. 

 

Miasma of Dullness:  The AOE isn't huge Aim at the back of the enemy front line and you will be fine.  You might miss a few but if you get another few that's fine.

 

Rolling Flame: Again I Don't care about the spell damage to my front line.  Blind them, let them cluster and fire massive AEO (Iconic Projection from a priest and this spell, plus the blinding druid fire spell or burst of summer flames will annihilate most of Raedrics crew).

 

Wizards Double: More deflection wizard will not get touched

 

Arcane Veil + Hardened Veil: Wizard will be untouchable against deflection.  Make sure you CC and kill the uncontrolled mob that is attacking your backline.  With Concelhauts Staff and ZF they will go down fast.

 

Against Raedric I don't run for the door.  I stand at the stares with a thick enough frontline (3) and wait for them to cluster and Blind the frontline (-minus reflect and Dex) fire Iconic Projection, Burst of Summer Flame, Arcane assault (raw damage no FF) and Rolling flame and 80% are dead or Near Death and its clean up time.  Also having a chanter with White Worm explosion (forgot the name) will destroy them.  Look at Boer's tactics.

 

If your burst AOE DPS is not good enough in that fight you might be toast because there paladins have unlimited Lay on Hands it looks like lmao.

 

Thanks for the detailed suggestions!

 

On picking elemental resist races or prone resist races: I may do that in the future in a non-Middle Earth playthrough. But with an Aragorn-led group, it's kind of hard to include all Pale Elves and certainly not Anamua - which seems like PoE version of Orcs. (Are there ever good Orcs? I guess I'd have to choose Thrall and do a Warcraft playthrough? )

 

On Slicken and Chillfog: I suppose I can put them in the grimoire and see if I can consistently learn how to guess ranges - which is what I had to do in Warhammer Fantasy Battle tabletop games. But I am an old man with poor eyesight! Obviously the better way is to run Pale Elves, but I am not sure how much frost resist I need to consistently shrug off Chillfog friendly fire. I would probably need Pale Elves plus the frost resist talent plus a frost resist item like the cloak?

 

On Curse of Blackened Sight: I was not aware that it is enemy-only. I have never actually used it but now I will. Thanks!

 

I do use Wizard's Double and Arcane Veil - though I do not use Hardened Veil, because 2 defensive talents on Wizard seems to be too much. But if I have survival issues on PotD on the Wizard, I will consider.

 

I think I am going to avoid tackling Raedric until I hit level 7 or something, ROFL!

[Lampros]

Actually Ciphers has one of the best starting CC with Whispers of Treason. Sure, it is not AoE, but the thing is it will pull aggro away from your team and you can initiate with it. Maybe even cause the enemy to waste skills on the charmed enemy.

 

Yes, yes more micro and all that jazz. But good thing is that most of the Ciphers powers are Foe AoE, so the lack of targeting is not that bad.

 

I find the best AoE for me is Druid's Relentless Storm. It is very disruptive to the enemies whilst giving your party a fair bit of breathing room.

 

Yeah, the problem with Cipher is more micro, and I am already tired of micro-spazzing with the Priest and the Wizard. Adding a third micro-intensive character would be too much pain. That's why I was considering a Ranger lobbing two arrows per shot with Borresaine.

 

As for the Druid's Relentless Storm: That does friendly fire, too, no? Also, I really want to limit casters to 2 - and Priest and Wizard seem automatic here (and I like the Wizard for CC, due to the long, AoE petrify later). Do you think a Druid or a Cipher can fully replace the Wizard and handle the late-game CC?

[Torm51]

Storm Druid is ridiculously good. I have him as a 3rd tank with the fur armor and shield that give you + 50 Def to all defenses when prone. Literally hit the spell and get him surrounded on purpose. He can storm while CCed as long as the spell has fired off. He can tank or just cast spells while surrounded by 5 enemies lol. He was prone in front of the Alpine Dragon and the frost breath missed by a mile. He had like 230 reflex lmao

 

There is no FF on storm spells

Edited September 22, 2017 by Torm51

[Torm51]

 

Actually Ciphers has one of the best starting CC with Whispers of Treason. Sure, it is not AoE, but the thing is it will pull aggro away from your team and you can initiate with it. Maybe even cause the enemy to waste skills on the charmed enemy.

 

Yes, yes more micro and all that jazz. But good thing is that most of the Ciphers powers are Foe AoE, so the lack of targeting is not that bad.

 

I find the best AoE for me is Druid's Relentless Storm. It is very disruptive to the enemies whilst giving your party a fair bit of breathing room.

Yeah, the problem with Cipher is more micro, and I am already tired of micro-spazzing with the Priest and the Wizard. Adding a third micro-intensive character would be too much pain. That's why I was considering a Ranger lobbing two arrows per shot with Borresaine.

 

As for the Druid's Relentless Storm: That does friendly fire, too, no? Also, I really want to limit casters to 2 - and Priest and Wizard seem automatic here (and I like the Wizard for CC, due to the long, AoE petrify later). Do you think a Druid or a Cipher can fully replace the Wizard and handle the late-game CC?

Yes they could especially a Druid. I like both

Edited September 22, 2017 by Torm51

[Lampros]

Storm Druid is ridiculously good. I have him as a 3rd tank with the fur armor and shield that give you + 50 Def to all defenses when prone. Literally hit the spell and get him surrounded on purpose. He can storm while CCed as long as the spell has fired off. He can tank or just cast spells while surrounded by 5 enemies lol. He was prone in front of the Alpine Dragon and the frost breath missed by a mile. He had like 230 reflex lmao

 

There is no FF on storm spells

 

Ah, ok. The spell descriptions are really not clear.

[JFutral]

The PoE Druid is far and away superior to the D&D Druid. With offensive spells that rival the Wizard's and even some decent buff spells. If you don't like the lack of extensive CC spells, you can always create scrolls for the Druid to use. Not really an issue.

 

I still can't grok the Cipher.

 

Joe

[Lampros]

The PoE Druid is far and away superior to the D&D Druid. With offensive spells that rival the Wizard's and even some decent buff spells. If you don't like the lack of extensive CC spells, you can always create scrolls for the Druid to use. Not really an issue.

 

I still can't grok the Cipher.

 

Joe

 

Constant scroll-making is a lot of cash down the drain though. So I only have that kind of cash late-game, once I hit WM 1 area.

 

What's "grok"?

 

P.S. I am really struggling with my inability to control/damage enemy back-line, since I have no archer, and my Priest and Wizard are initially busy buffing and debuffing. I never switch characters once I start a playthrough, but I am really regretting not bringing a shooter. I am also having issues "pulling" and end up aggroing everything in the vicinity.

[JFutral]

Well, if you need CC and you don't have it already in some other functional manner, then the scrolls are hardly a waste of money. How many scrolls are you making?

 

Grok: Wiki says "to understand intuitively or by empathy, to establish rapport with" and "to empathize or communicate sympathetically (with); also, to experience enjoyment", In my case, the lack of the former causes lack of the latter.

 

I can't figure out the whole Focus thing. I use a "spell" and then it takes forever for the focus to regenerate. I end up making either a melee or ranged cipher whenever I use one so they are productive while waiting to regenerate Focus. And then the FX of the spells never seem to be all that useful, but I can't tell. I am as productive with a cipher as I am without. So I figure I just can't figure out how to properly build and play one.

 

Joe

[JFutral]

You think you are having trouble with the back line now, wait until you are running solo!

 

The "hit and run" technique as much art as technical. You have to find that point where the enemy starts to head back and then find one to hit to bring them back. I also try to lay a trap or symbol they have to run over just to help out.

 

One of my new favorite Druid CC spells especially for distant enemies that also gives me time to quaff a potion or cast another spell is Overwhelming Wave. I don't have to be in Combat Mode to cast it, which is a huge plus. Then I cast one of the Storm spells or cast a Protection scroll or drink a recovery potion. Some mobs are too big and the wave doesn't hit everyone, but at least some are incapacitated while I setup for the first wave of enemies.

 

Joe

[Lampros]

Well, if you need CC and you don't have it already in some other functional manner, then the scrolls are hardly a waste of money. How many scrolls are you making?

 

Grok: Wiki says "to understand intuitively or by empathy, to establish rapport with" and "to empathize or communicate sympathetically (with); also, to experience enjoyment", In my case, the lack of the former causes lack of the latter.

 

I can't figure out the whole Focus thing. I use a "spell" and then it takes forever for the focus to regenerate. I end up making either a melee or ranged cipher whenever I use one so they are productive while waiting to regenerate Focus. And then the FX of the spells never seem to be all that useful, but I can't tell. I am as productive with a cipher as I am without. So I figure I just can't figure out how to properly build and play one.

 

Joe

 

I never made any scrolls beyond what was needed for the Steam Achievement, but I recall the higher level spells were rather expensive.

 

Thanks for the reference on "grok"; I have never heard of it before! And I "grok" your inability to "grok" the CIpher as well - as our experiences and frustrations seem to have been the same!

[Lampros]

You think you are having trouble with the back line now, wait until you are running solo!

 

The "hit and run" technique as much art as technical. You have to find that point where the enemy starts to head back and then find one to hit to bring them back. I also try to lay a trap or symbol they have to run over just to help out.

 

One of my new favorite Druid CC spells especially for distant enemies that also gives me time to quaff a potion or cast another spell is Overwhelming Wave. I don't have to be in Combat Mode to cast it, which is a huge plus. Then I cast one of the Storm spells or cast a Protection scroll or drink a recovery potion. Some mobs are too big and the wave doesn't hit everyone, but at least some are incapacitated while I setup for the first wave of enemies.

 

Joe

 

I will never ever solo any game intended for a party - I want to have fun, not torture myself!

 

I have begun to lay Repulsing Seals in PotD, and it does make things a lot easier indeed. The issue is that my scout/puller is my Wizard - since he is the Mechanic guy - and he is so squishy that against ranged enemies he gets pummeled before he gets back to the mainline. I guess I could try it with my tank, but he can't disable traps...

[Torm51]

Wizard is also my mechanic and spots them fine from the back. Just focus purely mechanics early and you'll be fine.

 

Also don't pull I don't. Stealth your frontline as far you can and pop up with them first they will take the initial heat.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Torm51

[Lampros]

Wizard is also my mechanic and spots them fine from the back. Just focus purely mechanics early and you'll be fine

 

Are you using the Wizard as a puller? If so, how do you do it? Just un-stealth and run back? Or shoot a bolt and then run back?

[Torm51]

Read above I edited

[Lampros]

Read above I edited

K, will try that.

[mosspit]

Yeah as Torm mentioned, Storm Druid is super good. In my previous ToI playthrough, I had to refrain from using Relentless Storm too much as it got too easy. But of course, it was like an emergency button I could press if things ever go sideways.

 

Cipers are also neat in my ToI or TC playthroughs. In my current playthrough, I just had to attack twice and I got enough Focus for even the highest level power. I am currently dual wield sabres and previous playthroughs I was wielding Tidefall. And shortly after the start of encounter I could cast Defensive Mindweb aka I win button.

 

 

In my opinion, TC is about planning ahead with more emphasis on signature battles. Consistency in the party's performance in those situations is also important.

Edited September 22, 2017 by mosspit