Couple questions regarding classes..

[Isaea]

Hey guys!

 

So recently i tried to finish another PoTD full run. Unfortunately i'm kinda stuck on creating character. I tried different ones - some work out better than others. Unfortunately the time you have to invest in a class in order to tell if you really like it or not is huge. Some classes get better in midgame or lategame which takes quite some time to accomplish. So i decided i'll ask here maybe someone more experienced will be able to help and answer couple questions.

 

First question about retaliation - is there any class that works well with it using mostly retaliation items? I was thinking about building a tank with Coat of Ill-Payment and Sura Supper Plate eventually Dragon's Maw and a on handed weapon. I don't really want to rely on Fire Godlikes. Is there any class that work really well with retalation or not really?

 

Second - Ciphers. I would like to build one with 2 handed weapon and sturdy/heavy armor. Possible or a waste of time?

 

Last one - Priests - mostly Priest of Magran and Priest of Berath.

 

I uterlly hate playing one in cloth/leather armor. I'm more of a battle cleric guy and as far as i know wearing heavy armor hurts recovery quite a lot. Question is - is it still comfortable to play even in brigandine/mail armor?

 

When it comes to Priest of Magran i like his flexibility. I would like to build one around his Arquebus passive and perhaps Steadfast + Shield. Add Abydon Hammer later on. Also Scion of Flame fits the class really well and synergizes with a lot of priest spells. The downside is a lot of those weapons come really late.

 

Priest of Berath - i like his dispositions a little more, i could run with Tidefall which comes relatively early. But same question about armor and casting time applies. Does it make sense to build a battle cleric in this game or not really?

[Boeroer]

First question:

 

the best class for retaltion used to be the cipher. But focus gain per retaliation got nerfed - now it's not so awesome anymore.

Every class that can add something to retaliation hits is ok with it. Those are:

- Monk: Turning Wheel and Blood Testament Gloves add their lashes to retaliation, too. Works well if you also add Rooting Pain. Enervating Blows also add weakened through retaliation.

- Barbarian: One Stands Alone and Blooded add dmg to retaliation. Retaliation kills also count towards Bloodlust and Bloodthirst. He can also add Barbaric Retaliation ot the mix, it stacks with normal retaliation.

- Rogue: Deep Wounds also get applied through retaliation. If you make a tanky rogue and also add Riposte this isn't too bad.

- Cipher: in combination with Pain Link you can retaliate quite a lot, but you won't get focus from it.

- Chanter: the chant  Aefyllath Ues Mith Fyr adds a 25% lash to retaliation, too. And with focus on interrupts (high PER) and the Champion invocation your retaliations will interrupt a lot.

 

All those approaches work well with a Ring of Searing Flames or a wizard with Combusting Wounds in the party. Since multi-retaliation gernerates a lot of tiny hits it's perfectly well suited for Combusting Wounds. What you might also want to do is to reduce DR of enemies via Expose Vulnerabilites for example and use Vulnerable Attack.

 

For me, the best performance comes from monk or barb. Both also have the big advantage that they have huge health pools. Getting hit all the time can drain health a bit. It's good to have a big foundation here.

 

Second:

 

Cipher with a 2hander is totally viable. Estocs and Great Swords are nice.

Estocs are a bit better in the early game because of the +5 DR bypass. Hours of St. Rumbalt is a great thing with a cipher, too. But if you like, try Firebrand (Forgemaster Gloves from Crucible Keep, Dunstan's shop)!

The combo of very high base damage with Annihilation (=double crit damage) and the +40% dmg from (Biting) Soul Whip and eventually +15% from 2handed style, +15% from Apprentice's Sneak and +20% from Savage Attack (and maybe even +20% from Scrion of Flame) leads to enormous(!) focus gain per hit. You can even use an Estoc as backup weapon if you don't want to use Firebrand in every fight. Because Firebrand is in the universal focus group it works with every Weapon Focus, even Adventurer.

Or you use a Great Sword like H. o. St. Rumbalt as backup weapon.

Another nice (backup) weapon (often overlooked) for ciphers is Justice (Great Sword from Raedric): lashes on weapons also generate focus and Justice has two of them: one small crushing lash (10%) and an additional, normal one (25%). Often , in the early game, the smaller lash doesn't make it though the armor of a foe, but once you piled up enough dmg mods and also attack squishier targets or reduce enemies' DR you will get more focus with Justice than with another Great Sword.

BUT. if you want to take Firebrand and add Scion of Flame to your talent list, then using an estoc or great sword on which you can apply a burning lash is certainly better. Scion of Flame will not only raise Forebrand's damage, but also the b urning lash damage on your backup weapon from 25% to 30%.

Wounding from Tidefall does not generate focus by the way...

 

Last question:

It's not only viable to play a berathian priest with a great sword, it's great fun! Tidefall is exactly the right choice for him. A priest can reach very high MIG. Wounding damage (like on Tidefall) benefits twice from high MIG: first high MIG raises the initial damage of the hit on which the raw wouding lash is calculated. Secondly, wounding damage itself gets influenced by MIG. High MIG leads to higher wounding damage (because it's a DoT effect). With a priest as main character you can reach 40 MIG and more. THings like Aggrandzing Radiance (stacks with everything), Minor Avatar and Champion's Boon lead to very high MIG and therefore good melee damage. If you also have high INT you can pick Veteran's Recovery to make the priest more sturdy and also Envenomed Strike and Runner's Wounding Shot. Wounding and Envenomed Strike all work with Cleansing Flame. Cleansing Flame doubles the damage of all DoT effects on the target. You can imagine how awesome this combo can be. If you need to, you can kill a dragon with a few hits once Cleansing Flame is on. Additionally, all your healing spells will work tremendously well with such high MIG and also things like Shining Beacon are devastating with more than 30 MIG.

However, such a priest is a bit frail at the beginning but rally starts to shine once he has access to lvl 4 spells. A thick armor is a good way to keep him alive in the eary game. Of course he will cast a bit slower then - but that's better than kissing the ground all the time.

Another really nice side effect of very high MIG on an MC priest is that your Holy Radiance will one-shot most vessels if your dispositions are correct. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by Boeroer

[Isaea]

Thank you Boeroer for the answers you provided! I know you are pretty well oriented in builds and overall game mechanics i'm sure answers will prove useful.

 

So best retaliation tank used to be cipher but not anymore. it's either Barbarian or Monk. Monk isn't really my style. I wanted a simple sturdy tank that uses heavy armor, one handed weapon and shield. I think i might give barbarian a go.

 

I'm really glad that ciphers are viable with 2 handed weapons. Builds i've found so far are either builds for guns or 2 x one handed weapon. Guns I really like but it becomes kinda retarded later on in the game. Having only "pierce" damage type hurts a lot a frustrates me on PoTD.

 

Priests.. I don't know what to think about them - i like cleric-type of a priest with heavy armor aka "Paladin wannabe" more than caster with stick and a robe. So it's a relief that priests in melee or heavy armor are viable. So you've tested out that Berathan Priest works really well with 2 handed weapon. What about Magran Priest? Does it work with Arquebus + Steadfast/Shield eventually Abydon Hammer or nah? I like the idea of being flexible. Have range weapon, melee weapon, different types of damage. Synergizing well with fire dmg etc. The thing is - i'm not sure if it's not "good" on paper only and will be ****ty when it comes to actual gameplay. I'm afraid that it will require a lot of investing in talents to be viable. Talents like faster reloading, +ACC talents, +DMG. And still i won't be sure that damage with Arquebus will be any meaningful, that reload won't take years along with casting spells. On top of that i'll go into melee and get one shotted :D Have you tried Priest of Magran?

[Boeroer]

An arquebus for a priest of magran is a good thing in the early to mid game. But the priest class has no special abilites that work well with an arquebus except Runner's Wounding Shot. Later in the game you will fire one shot - and the rest is casting.

So... no BIG need for the special ACC talent for sword and arquebus to be honest. The sword & shield approach works well if you want to prevent swarming. With sword & board most enemies won't target your priest - and that can be a really good thing. But with this setup he will also do no serious damage and you will find that you cast all the time but don't attack very often. But it's true that it's a viable solution to give the priest one arquebus and sword&board. Every encounter he will fire a shot and then switch to the melee setup. It works quite well but don't expect a lot of damage. The spellchance of Steadfast (Sunlance) is great, but I don't expect that you will see it often because you will cast all the time. This could be better on a paladin who actually uses it all the time in melee.

 

The berathian priest is an exception because he can deliver serious single target damage with Tidefall und thus keeps on swinging a lot - even at higher levels. But even he will cast a lot and will attack less compared to a fighter, rogue, paladin, barbarian and so on.

 

Abydon's Hammer is ok for a priest. The +4 MIG can help to deliver a lot of spell damage. It works with every weapon focus - like Steadfast, too. 

[Isaea]

You are probably right when it comes to priest and Arquebus. It's a good weapon if you want to fire it ocassionally now and then, but it will most likely fall off later on in the game due to fact how priest class work plus lack of talents that synergize with it. I guess i'll give Berathan priest a go. I think i'll enjoy the playstyle and kinda different approach to priest class. I like his dispositions too. This cipher you mentioned also looks promising. i'll have to think about it. Anyway thank you very much for all the ideas you've shared with me, it helped a lot!

[Boeroer]

You're welcome.

 

And if something I said doesn't turn out to be fun for you then don't hesitate to retrain.

 

As I said: melee priest is tricky in the early game. Only a few spells which ar not really powerful and quite low starting values. He needs some levels to unfold.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Boeroer

[indika_tates]

You are probably right when it comes to priest and Arquebus. It's a good weapon if you want to fire it ocassionally now and then, but it will most likely fall off later on in the game due to fact how priest class work plus lack of talents that synergize with it. I guess i'll give Berathan priest a go. I think i'll enjoy the playstyle and kinda different approach to priest class. I like his dispositions too. This cipher you mentioned also looks promising. i'll have to think about it. Anyway thank you very much for all the ideas you've shared with me, it helped a lot!

 

The thing about Magran's priest arquebus is that one shot can be very valuable if you save it for a wounded spellcaster. While you are casting if you see a wizard/priest on low endurance you fire the boomstick on his/her face. A Magran's priest with Soldier Focus + Inspired Flame has the same accuracy as a Fighter or a Ranger with the same focus. If there are no spellcasters, you do the same with wounded enemies.

 

With Doemenel's merciless hand against debuffed enemies an arquebus shot can give a lot of pain. Late game, because priests are not talent hungry as other classes you can choose Envenomed Strike (High MIG & High INT) to kill enemy casters with one shot.

Edited March 15, 2017 by indika_tates