From the Twitch Q&A: enchanting and ceiling

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

 

I think this gets to other stuff besides just enchanting, like player preference and the like. Making a build entirely based around a single piece weapon sounds like the old spiked chain fighters of DnD, i.e. cheesy and something to be discouraged (not trying to insult anyone). But that's just my opinion, and I know other people like doing stuff like that. It just seems like setting yourself up to have a bad time.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

 

Oh, I'd argue that gimmick builds have a long tradition. You might even say they're. . . . classics

 

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

More seriously:

 

For me at least having a gimmick for a character is just one way to roleplay. Working out weird gimmicks forces me to get creative with character concepts and invent backstories that I never would have otherwise.

[JerekKruger]

It just seems like setting yourself up to have a bad time.

 

Not really, I've had quite a lot of good times running builds that a reliant on specific items

 

Obviously doing so in Deadfire will be less easy with the change to enchanting since said items are likely to have to be late game ones, and thus the build will have to make do without until I reach them, but I'm sure I'll still manage to have fun nonetheless.

[takamorisan]

Regarding the OP question:

 

I have mixed feelings, I agree that having easy access to a weapon/gear that will close your build early game is awesome fun, but you kinda murder exploration and item discovery in the rest of the game.

 

So some stuff should  have some power upgrade from separate items so you feel that joy of finding something new and powerful. But at the same time you can't make the power level too noticeable or you will end up having "Oh this build here is for early game, this one for mid game and this one for end game" and kills the character identity.

[draego]

 

It might be helpful to focus this discussion on a particular, specific character and specific weapon(s), rather than the abstract.

 

There are a lot of weapons in PoE 1 that have unique properties -- Spelltongue stands out as a really good example. You can design a whole character build around Spelltongue if you want (usually with a barbarian), in fact you can even design a whole party setup around Spelltongue (with casters giving the spelltongue wielder buffs, etc.).

 

But (in PoE 1 with upgrading) Spelltongue isn't clearly "better" than any number of other weapons -- it's just different. You can do a Godansthunyr barbarian instead, or you can do a two-handed barbarian with the Grey Sleeper or St. Ydwen's.

 

Now let's posit a Spelltongue-equivalent weapon in PoE 2. With one upgrade, that would take it to about level 12. So the first half of the game you'd keep it, then the second half you'd have to respec, because your build wouldn't make nearly as much sense any more -- especially if you had taken things like Noble weapon group and Two-Weapon fighting to maximize use of Spelltongue.

 

For someone who roleplays even a little bit, having to do a complete respec halfway through the game really is "ruining", because it breaks your character concept. 

 

And I only see two ways out of that problem. Either

 

(1) make sure there's a "Spelltongue 2" later in the game, which is just sortof boring (and presumably reduces item variety, since they're placing "Spelltongue 2" somewhere they could have placed something actually new instead), or

 

(2) let people upgrade Spelltongue.

 

I think this gets to other stuff besides just enchanting, like player preference and the like. Making a build entirely based around a single piece weapon sounds like the old spiked chain fighters of DnD, i.e. cheesy and something to be discouraged (not trying to insult anyone). But that's just my opinion, and I know other people like doing stuff like that. It just seems like setting yourself up to have a bad time.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

Its not always about single weapon builds. usually when i build a character i like to stick with one or two types of weapons. So i ran a polleaxe, warbow melee ranger. if you look at the weapon progression for pollaxes:

 

• Pollaxe
• Fine Pollaxe
• Spectacular Spectum - Fine Marking
• Exceptional Pollaxe
• The Wind's Arm - Exceptional Zephyr\Cleansing Wind 
• Superb Pollaxe
• Half Mast - Superb Crit to Prone
• Traitors' Merit - Exceptional Vicious\Predetory

First i am assuming i have no foreknowledge of this data. This is basically the order you find these Pollaxes. So for synergy with my melee ranger Spectacular Spectum turns out to be the better than all other pollaxes (but i dont neccessary know that ahead of time) because my conception for my melee ranger is to make my pet the damager. then maybe Traitor' Merit, which i would be fine moving to but you dont find that until the burial Isle literally right before the last dungeon so its near pointless but still can be useful for may 5 out of the 100 hours i played. This is not because i am trying to build around one weapon. I would be fine changing pollaxes if the other options were better or funner for my build. In the new system i dont get a choice. even though i have maybe used proficiency in pollaxe but Spectacular Spectum will become hard to use later in the game and i would be force to move up even though my ranger doesnt benefit from crit to prone much because i have stunning shots or from the The Wind's Arm passive to hurt enemy concentration since i am not an interrupt build and i dont want to be casting stuff. This is a great example of the issue, because the devs decided to drop Spectacular Spectum early to mid game my build becomes less optimal at least to me. In the new system i would always move up because later on superb will be allowed to go to legendary and the difference between exceptional and legendary is +7 accuracy and 25% damage which could make a difference in tougher fights. even though the property i find best for my build is marking. And i dont want to change my weapon to a greatsword or estoc, i mean why should i have too. I get that maybe in some situations i would be ok to switch weapons for a battle here or there but i still will want a dominate weapon type to use. I dont want to play waka-mole weapons. I have a conception for a build and want to stick with it being a pollaxe ranger. Its not always perfect but this is a role playing game. This would still apply if i say played with two weapon types instead of one. This situation could still happen because its arbitrary which weapons work best for my build and as long as its true that the properties that end up the best for me drop early my build is screwed. All i am saying is that in this situation i would like the option to say no i want to keep the marking property weapon up to date in case new weapon properties dont match my build.

 

Its not a guarantee that later weapons will be 'better' in any way the new property could be better for some and not others its a crapshoot. Its seem like there is an assumption that later weapons are better just because, but the properties in POE are varied quite a bit in unusually and good ways and you shouldn't be punished because a dev happened to drop the properties you value early in the game instead of late. There is no such thing as moving up in weapon properties in POE there are just different properties. The answer to this issue also isn't well just double the unique pollaxes which feels like the answer they are moving to. Again it doesnt matter how many additional weapons you add because all the properties that work well with your build could be dropped early and is random as for as the player is concerned. I mean this type of ranger build values stuff like wounding (prob best), coordinating, marking, vicious all work nicely with this ranger there are some others but if they are all dropped early it doesnt matter. This type of randomness isnt fun it makes your build less fun. Its not fun to give up a weapon for what is obviously a less optimal property like crit to pron in this case because of stunning shots simply because it randomly got a better quality designation by a random dev even though for a different build crit to prone would be great. It also maybe the case that i never see certain weapons like the crit to prone one because of role play reason. I mean i didnt help the dragon out so i didnt get a choice for this weapon anyways so there are issues like that to consider.

 

And if you notice my use of pollaxe its not optimal because wounding would usually be better for this type of build so tidefall, drawn in spring for single or dual wield and persistence with bow. So i am not trying to start by saying what is optimal for this build let me look at wiki not that there is anything wrong with that and see best weapon and when it drops and build around only that weapon. I started with a weapon type i like because of aesthetics or i had role play reasons and just played the game. 

 

To me what i have described would be the experience of any new player. They may like certain weapon type and play with them but would be forced to use sub optimal or less attractive weapons later on simply because of the randomness of level designers with the quality enchantment. this same issue happens with armor as well.

 

I agree that durgen steel kind a screwed up stuff. but the durgan steal, the lashing, and monster enchantments are all being fixed with the new system. We simply want the quality enchantments to keep up. And i still dont see how this hurt others from feeling like finding new pollaxes isnt fun and switching because they like new properties. All the change does is hurt the rest of us.

Edited March 6, 2017 by draego