Expanded Skills and Attributes to enrich character development.

[Ninjamestari]

To me, the character creation and progression in Pillars of Eternity always felt a little bland. The choices seem numerous and expansive but in the end become quite binary on the other hand and quite pointless in the other. The progress could be spiced up by adding more effects to existing attributes and expanding the list of skills. Blatant min-maxing also isn't punished properly I think, making any decent character power-wise really implausible and ridiculous with those dump stats.

 

The choice in armor in PoE is a prime example of the binary nature of the game; you either focus on protection and take the heaviest armor available, or you focus on speed and have no armor at all. Any compromise in between is more a hindrance than anything else. Therefore there could be an aspect of character creation that would allow you to build for certain types of armor. My suggestion is that to tie Might into the equipment management by having a base item weight for every piece of equipment and quick item. Might would then determine the maximum weight of the gear you can equip. This would have the effect that stronger characters can wear heavier armor and carry bigger weapons, while the same time punishing overly specialized characters who completely sacrifice Might.

 

To expand the usefulness of Dexterity, it could also have an effect on the Movement speed of the character. This would allow you to create builds designed around mobility, adding a new layer to character desig

 

Constitution is pretty much fine as is now that its effects were increased to 5% per point, although I would still prefer a modifier per level increase in hitpoints rather than a percentage multiplier. This would make constitution a more attractive pick even for classes that don't naturally have high HP, where as in now low HP classes rarely want to invest in Constitution due to the low returns because of their low base value.

 

Perception as a stat is also functional as is, but it's not that important to a character that doesn't rely on crits that much. To expand the utility of Perception, I'd make it affect the range of special abilities and spells, perhaps 5% per point. Some spells and abilities are limited by range and having perception affect that range could allow players to make builds that rely on overcoming those limitations.

 

Intelligence obviously could affect the amount of skill-points you gain every levelup, just like in 3rd edition D&D. Together with an expanded skill list this would allow you to invest in the versatility of your character and also punish characters that sacrifice intelligence completely.

 

I always felt that the game lacked some way to strengthen the passive class abilities players have, and here I think Resolve might be perfect. From Cipher's Whip to Paladin's auras, Resolve could directly affect the strength of the passive ability, let's say by 5% per rank. A Cipher with 20 Resolve would do 30% extra damage with an unmodified whip rather than 20%, and Zealous Focus would increase accuracy by 9 instead of 6 and convert 22.5% of grazes into hits.

 

 

I think tying crafting to characters that have actually invested in it is paramount for good itemization. This guarantees that the items found in the world as monster loot, hidden treasures, quest rewards or merchant's wares will always be useful regardless of the power of crafted gear while still making sure that one can safely have powerful craftables. I always liked Crafting being an investment, both in cases where I did invest and gained access to it and in cases where I didn't and had to rely on world items. This makes crafting feel more rewarding and significant, and every item has more value by restricting crafting behind skills that require investing.

 

Besides Crafting skills (Alchemy, Blacksmithing, Enchanting, Traps, Jewelry etc), the skill list could be expanded with stuff like first aid and bartering for better vendor prices. Lore could also be divided into several knowledge fields, dividing Wizard, Priest and Druid spells and scrolls into their own categories, so that if you truly wish to cast any spell from a scroll you'd have to invest to more than just a single skill.

 

 

Just what I think. Feel free to share your thoughts and ideas.

[Orillion]

I'm hoping for a replacement armour system, myself. Ideally this would look something like D&D or Pathfinder: Three weight classes of armour, each with its own tradeoffs and a straightforward hierarchy, but then build in reasons to equip an "inferior" piece in a way that D&D and PF don't (example: metal armours have a weakness to lightning, so you can give a nonmetal option at each weight class).

 

I would also like someone at Obsidian to put on a suit of brigandine and continue to tell us it's "heavy" armour, on the level of full plate. (hint, it's less restrictive than the leather armour they show in the game, and far, far lighter than chain mail.)

 

I do like the idea of improving passive abilities with Resolve. I'm hoping the classes end up a lot less passive-oriented in Deadfire (lookin' at you, Paladin) but being able to significantly improve those abilities which ARE passives could lead to some interesting opportunities.

 

My own opinion on crafting is that it's often not good enough to warrant investment in a skill; such a mechanic worked in tabletop games because you could just go out and buy materials as you need them (and most DMs are only going to restrict special materials, and even then probably just to within a reasonable quantity) whereas in PC RPGs you need to find them, either on enemies, in the wilds, or in shops. I can see it working, I'd just personally rather not have to ration skill points for it, especially since you never really know how worthwhile crafting actually is until you find a weapon stronger than the one you just made, five minutes after you crafted it.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Orillion

[Ninjamestari]

The crafting thing is completely in the hands of the developers. If you force the player to invest in crafting, you can have those more worthwhile crafted items, which in some extreme cases could be slightly more powerful than the ones found in the map. The point is that it has to be worth the investment, but not so good as to make the investment mandatory. If you require no investment in crafting, then you're either in situation a) where the stuff you find is superior and crafting is useless or b) the stuff you find is inferior and loot is useless.

 

I know I've overly simplified the issue, but this is at the core of the issue I think.

 

EDIT: oh, and I actually like creating characters that stack up passive abilities occasionally, but I see what you mean with the Paladins ^^.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Ninjamestari

[tinysalamander]

The choice in armor in PoE is a prime example of the binary nature of the game; you either focus on protection and take the heaviest armor available, or you focus on speed and have no armor at all. Any compromise in between is more a hindrance than anything else. Therefore there could be an aspect of character creation that would allow you to build for certain types of armor. My suggestion is that to tie Might into the equipment management by having a base item weight for every piece of equipment and quick item. Might would then determine the maximum weight of the gear you can equip. This would have the effect that stronger characters can wear heavier armor and carry bigger weapons, while the same time punishing overly specialized characters who completely sacrifice Might.

 

This changes my somewhat defensive oriented priest with 10 Might into a speed-focused unarmored caster which you wanted to avoid… Buffing her Might is out of the question since her primary role is buffing.

[Ninjamestari]

 

The choice in armor in PoE is a prime example of the binary nature of the game; you either focus on protection and take the heaviest armor available, or you focus on speed and have no armor at all. Any compromise in between is more a hindrance than anything else. Therefore there could be an aspect of character creation that would allow you to build for certain types of armor. My suggestion is that to tie Might into the equipment management by having a base item weight for every piece of equipment and quick item. Might would then determine the maximum weight of the gear you can equip. This would have the effect that stronger characters can wear heavier armor and carry bigger weapons, while the same time punishing overly specialized characters who completely sacrifice Might.

 

This changes my somewhat defensive oriented priest with 10 Might into a speed-focused unarmored caster which you wanted to avoid… Buffing her Might is out of the question since her primary role is buffing.

 

 

That would depend on the math of it. There's this gray area between being able to wear the heaviest armor and wearing no armor at all you know, and 10 Might should fall within that gray area. The character with 5 or less Might would be the one that is unable to wear any armor due to being so weak. The idea is not to force you to invest in Might, the idea is to punish you for dumping it and rewarding you for investing in it. Also, pulling one or two points away from somewhere isn't going to kill your ability to buff, you don't need to maximize any attribute to be viable.

[Orillion]

 

This changes my somewhat defensive oriented priest with 10 Might into a speed-focused unarmored caster which you wanted to avoid… Buffing her Might is out of the question since her primary role is buffing.

 

That would depend on the math of it. There's this gray area between being able to wear the heaviest armor and wearing no armor at all you know, and 10 Might should fall within that gray area. The character with 5 or less Might would be the one that is unable to wear any armor due to being so weak. The idea is not to force you to invest in Might, the idea is to punish you for dumping it and rewarding you for investing in it. Also, pulling one or two points away from somewhere isn't going to kill your ability to buff, you don't need to maximize any attribute to be viable.

 

And furthermore that would end up completely in line with classical clerics: they wear medium armour like mail most often, not heavy armour like full plate.

[tinysalamander]

This changes my somewhat defensive oriented priest with 10 Might into a speed-focused unarmored caster which you wanted to avoid… Buffing her Might is out of the question since her primary role is buffing.

 

That would depend on the math of it. There's this gray area between being able to wear the heaviest armor and wearing no armor at all you know, and 10 Might should fall within that gray area. The character with 5 or less Might would be the one that is unable to wear any armor due to being so weak. The idea is not to force you to invest in Might, the idea is to punish you for dumping it and rewarding you for investing in it. Also, pulling one or two points away from somewhere isn't going to kill your ability to buff, you don't need to maximize any attribute to be viable.

 

If that medium armor would provide me something in line with those 2 options I’d consider it without a stick, though.