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Two mechanics that made me hate this game


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-Spells missing more often than attacks, even with good perception.

-Getting perma-stunned by normal attacks without any diminishing returns.

 

I have played almost every crpg out there, Dark souls, X-Com, DMC on hardest, hell even was patient enough to finish all super mario. Never got frustrated that much. These 2 mechanics are the reason I haven't enjoyed this game looking at the loading screen most of the time because a crucial spell has missed or a monster with 1hp that perma-stuns has survived and perma-stuns my hero. Pure cancer. If PoE2 retains them count me out. Simple as that.

Edited by Bleak
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Spells aren't calculated to miss more than attacks, though certain spells and abilities will have bonuses and maluses to accuracy.

 

There are no perma-stuns, so you'll have to explain what you're actually talking about.

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Yeah, spells use exactly the same to-hit mechanics as physical attacks. Spellcasters often have lower base accuracy, but most spells have an innate accuracy bonus associated with them that results in a comparable accuracy to, say, a Fighter's physical attack. Of course spells usually target one of the three non-Deflection defences, which is why it's important to keep an eye on each enemy's individual defences and choose spells accordingly (you'll crit Trolls a lot more often with Will attacking spells than Fortitude attacking spells for example).

 

As for perma-stuns, are you playing solo? I've encountered annoying fights where one or two of my party seem to get perma-stunned (e.g. Xaurip skirmishers in the early game) but never my whole party, so on party play it has never been game ending. On solo it could be, but Obsidian specifically said during development that they weren't balancing the game for solo play so if you want to play solo you have to accept that you'll have to be creative in beating some encounters.

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  1. Spells missing more often than attacks, even with good perception.
  2. Getting perma-stunned without any diminishing returns.

I have played almost every crpg out there, Dark souls, X-Com, DMC on hardest, hell even was patient enough to finish all super mario. Never got frustrated that much. These 2 mechanics are the reason I haven't enjoyed this game looking at the loading screen most of the time because a crucial spell has missed or a monster with 1hp that perma-stuns has survived and perma-stuns my hero. Pure cancer. If PoE2 retains them count me out. Simple as that.

 

Two mechanics that make me hate posters: 

 

1. Blatantly untrue information relayed in a whiney, entitled tone. 

2. The use of 'cancer' to describe anything but a terrible, life-destroying disease. 

Edited by Grimo88
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  1. Spells missing more often than attacks, even with good perception.
  2. Getting perma-stunned without any diminishing returns.

I have played almost every crpg out there, Dark souls, X-Com, DMC on hardest, hell even was patient enough to finish all super mario. Never got frustrated that much. These 2 mechanics are the reason I haven't enjoyed this game looking at the loading screen most of the time because a crucial spell has missed or a monster with 1hp that perma-stuns has survived and perma-stuns my hero. Pure cancer. If PoE2 retains them count me out. Simple as that.

 

Two mechanics that make me hate posters: 

 

1. Blatantly untrue information relayed in a whiney, entitled tone. 

2. The use of 'cancer' to describe anything but a terrible, life-destroying disease. 

 

 

Only can agree about the second because even if metaphorical, it is not something to dwell on when talking about games. 

 

I played both solo and in party, finished the game, multiple playthroughs. It's not like I played it now and started to whine about something out of the blue.

Missing a spell, unlike missing an attack, can make a whole battle go to waste. Certain enemies resisting spells is another matter and forces the player use different spells or different tactics but missing vital spells that could have hit, just makes you reload and do the whole thing all over again. Perma-stun happens mainly at the starting levels but can easily happen later as well and can happen in such a way where a single first stun has to equal reloading because the character is as good as dead no matter his hp.  

Edited by Bleak
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I will say that xaurip skirmishers are very annoying on PotD, and lethal in PotD solo.  However, I enjoyed just playing around them.  

 

No spell is an absolutely necessary hit, and you can play the game without spellcasters at all if that's your preference.  If your spells repeatedly miss it's time to change tactics or come back later.

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Only can agree about the second because even if metaphorical, it is not something to dwell on when talking about games. 

 

I played both solo and in party, finished the game, multiple playthroughs. It's not like I played it now and started to whine about something out of the blue.

Missing a spell, unlike missing an attack, can make a whole battle go to waste. Certain enemies resisting spells is another matter and forces the player use different spells or different tactics but missing vital spells that could have hit, just makes you reload and do the whole thing all over again. Perma-stun happens mainly at the starting levels but can easily happen later as well and can happen in such a way where a single first stun has to equal reloading because the character is as good as dead no matter his hp.  

 

 

So... you're complaining that some things you do are high risk in a battle? Or that casting spells should never miss because when you miss you lose it? Or simply, spells should miss less than attacks because when you miss one they are a 'waste' - except they are a 'waste' because they are so powerful, meaning spells should be completely OP? 

 

There is no perma-stun. Since you played the game multiple times, I assume you understand how the combat rules work. Meaning you probably understand how graze/hit/crit works, and how stun durations are calculated, and how even solo POTD characters can often find ways to protect themselves against getting hit reliably by long stuns.

 

Except, you know, you were complaining spells shouldn't miss so much, so if we got rid of that, enemies would be able to 'perma' stun you all the time. 

 

And even in the current situation, you will stun enemies for 20, 30 seconds easily while enemies will struggle to do the same against properly built party members. So if you want spells to miss less... or do you just mean your spells should miss less, and not the enemies? In that case I could easily keep every mob stunned forever all game. 

 

There's a big gulf between "I want this I can't have it this sucks" and spelling out what's the problem and how it could reasonably be solved. 

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Only can agree about the second because even if metaphorical, it is not something to dwell on when talking about games. 

 

I played both solo and in party, finished the game, multiple playthroughs. It's not like I played it now and started to whine about something out of the blue.

Missing a spell, unlike missing an attack, can make a whole battle go to waste. Certain enemies resisting spells is another matter and forces the player use different spells or different tactics but missing vital spells that could have hit, just makes you reload and do the whole thing all over again. Perma-stun happens mainly at the starting levels but can easily happen later as well and can happen in such a way where a single first stun has to equal reloading because the character is as good as dead no matter his hp.  

 

 

So... you're complaining that some things you do are high risk in a battle? Or that casting spells should never miss because when you miss you lose it? Or simply, spells should miss less than attacks because when you miss one they are a 'waste' - except they are a 'waste' because they are so powerful, meaning spells should be completely OP? 

 

There is no perma-stun. Since you played the game multiple times, I assume you understand how the combat rules work. Meaning you probably understand how graze/hit/crit works, and how stun durations are calculated, and how even solo POTD characters can often find ways to protect themselves against getting hit reliably by long stuns.

 

Except, you know, you were complaining spells shouldn't miss so much, so if we got rid of that, enemies would be able to 'perma' stun you all the time. 

 

And even in the current situation, you will stun enemies for 20, 30 seconds easily while enemies will struggle to do the same against properly built party members. So if you want spells to miss less... or do you just mean your spells should miss less, and not the enemies? In that case I could easily keep every mob stunned forever all game. 

 

There's a big gulf between "I want this I can't have it this sucks" and spelling out what's the problem and how it could reasonably be solved. 

 

 

Is this the only crpg you've played? Did spell miss in PT? Did they miss in BG? In NWN? (besides the occasional immunity or resist ofc). Were they "OP" compared to attacks? No, they were just fine, which you could see for yourself if you go through these games using magic or not using it at all. So spare me the "they would be OP" declaration. They can be fine-tuned to be balanced without missing just  as well as those games.

 

Also were did you get the idea that I wanted the enemies' spells to miss and my spells to not miss? Seriously...

 

The problem with perma-stun is a lot of monsters' attacks. And yes some enemies can definitely perma-stun (at least on PotD I'm playing at) whether it is hits or grazes. The stun/paralyze duration refreshes. Skirmishers and spectres in the early game, crystal eaters later, vinthraks and a few more. It is just insane for them to paralyze on attack *forever*. You know what, I should make a video of how ridiculous it can become, but that's for another day. Never, ever, was I perma-stunned by being hit (not missed) by spells in this game.

 

And obviously I don't complain about taking "high risks" in battle. I am complaining about a character wasting all his time in the battle having done nothing, chanting 10 spells without any result, just because all his *damaging spells missed* (and that's with decent perception). I am complaining about having to save/load an annoying amount of times because a critical spell in the battle has missed. In BG for example a refrex save, if I remember correctly would make you take half of the damage a fireball would do to you, but it wouldn't leave you unharmed because unlike an attack, a spell is something that usually needs chanting, can be more easily interrupted and is of finite uses.

Edited by Bleak
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As someone who's played pen and paper, IE games, Wizardry, Might and Magic, and most other kinds of CRPG systems, forgive me if "hey I played BG it worked there" alone doesn't persuade.

 

Spells don't "miss more" than attacks in POE. Starting and ending with a simple factual error wasn't going to get you very far, unless you have the powers of Donald Trump. Maybe if you didn't want people to make conclusions that you're arguing for something silly...

 

There are no 'permanent' stuns and that is another simple factual error, though at least here I can see that you're just exaggerating. Crit paralyzes can definitely go for 30+ seconds - for your abilities as well as enemies'. And a poorly built party would find themselves being stunned and killed by Lagufaeth in POTD all the time. 

 

Of course, if you know the rule system, and don't want to play it exactly like you played BG, then you can also get the drop on Lagufaeth in POTD easily. Or, you know, there is a Priest spell that protects against their paralyse spells, if you want the AD&D-style defence route.

 

If your spells are missing "all the time", then you're clearly either not buffing your accuracy enough for POTD's challenges, and/or you are not targeting enemies' respective defences and debuffing them. Casting Fort save spells on a high Fort enemy and complaining is basically the same as casting fireball on fire elementals in BG2 then complaining your spells never do anything.

 

Sorry, after over half a dozen POE playthroughs without "permanent stuns" or spells that "miss all the time", and over a dozen playthroughs of IE games, I can well appreciate the respective pros and cons of the systems (and would rate BG2 easily above POE), but all I am hearing so far is "these enemies paralyse SUPER LONG and my spells miss SUPER MUCH i hate this game." But maybe I'm wrong, and so are all the other folks who have beaten POTD solo, party, etc. by uh, landing their spells and not getting perma-stunned.

Edited by Tigranes
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As someone who's played pen and paper, IE games, Wizardry, Might and Magic, and most other kinds of CRPG systems, forgive me if "hey I played BG it worked there" alone doesn't persuade.

 

Spells don't "miss more" than attacks in POE. Starting and ending with a simple factual error wasn't going to get you very far, unless you have the powers of Donald Trump. Maybe if you didn't want people to make conclusions that you're arguing for something silly...

 

There are no 'permanent' stuns and that is another simple factual error, though at least here I can see that you're just exaggerating. Crit paralyzes can definitely go for 30+ seconds - for your abilities as well as enemies'. And a poorly built party would find themselves being stunned and killed by Lagufaeth in POTD all the time. 

 

Of course, if you know the rule system, and don't want to play it exactly like you played BG, then you can also get the drop on Lagufaeth in POTD easily. Or, you know, there is a Priest spell that protects against their paralyse spells, if you want the AD&D-style defence route.

 

If your spells are missing "all the time", then you're clearly either not buffing your accuracy enough for POTD's challenges, and/or you are not targeting enemies' respective defences and debuffing them. Casting Fort save spells on a high Fort enemy and complaining is basically the same as casting fireball on fire elementals in BG2 then complaining your spells never do anything.

 

Sorry, after over half a dozen POE playthroughs without "permanent stuns" or spells that "miss all the time", and over a dozen playthroughs of IE games, I can well appreciate the respective pros and cons of the systems (and would rate BG2 easily above POE), but all I am hearing so far is "these enemies paralyse SUPER LONG and my spells miss SUPER MUCH i hate this game." But maybe I'm wrong, and so are all the other folks who have beaten POTD solo, party, etc. by uh, landing their spells and not getting perma-stunned.

 

The fact that it worked in BG and all the other crpgs is a much more persuading argument than you proclaiming that "I am wrong and that they don't exist".

 

As I said before I should have recorded a video from my last solo PotD playthrough - I didn't want to go that far though - so that you can see a character of ~300 endurance being perma-stunned by an 1 hit monster which survived, after a long, large battle, becaused it dodged CCs etc and killing that character without the character being able to move for more than a fraction of a second in 3 whole bloody minutes. I wonder what you would say then. My bad for not showing these broken mechanics on youtube to avert potential new players as well.

 

So as you don't seem to get why I am complaining and eloquently trying to say that "I don't understand the game's mechanics", I actually found the PotD solo easy enough, beyond the fact that it was the most frustrating experience I ever experienced in a crpg, second only to when I was playing fallout 1 on my old pc and it was crashing every 10 minutes. I had to look at my loading screen for the most part of it, because of the fact that the limited available spells in my arsenal missed way too much with 18 perception (15 base with the shawl and 19 later with the cloak that gives you +4 perception) and in many cases a perma-stun enemy survived and besides the fact that I had almost completed the fight flawlessly, if it managed to touch me (usually because 3 or more consecutive spells had missed) , it would just mean a reload even at full health. Legit kind of "difficulty", as legit as the "difficulty" of my F1 crashing every 10 minutes all these years back. 

 

But yes, I am imagining all these, they probably "don't exist" or it's because I am trying to poison the undead or deal fire damage to fire elementals. Are you playing on story time or something? Give me a break.

Edited by Bleak
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