I love this game, but ...

[Gromnir]

 

josh sawyer's jnpc contribution to poe is pallegina.  am simple stating a fact 'bout the link 'tween josh and the npc paladin with unique special abilities which make her more efficacious as a striker paladin than any player created paladin can aspire to be.  draw what conclusions you will.  nevertheless, be it as a ranged or melee combatant, pallegina can be a comical powerful addition to your party.

 

Jnpc?

 

 

joinable npc. and yeah, she ain't one o' the better written characters in the game. flat.

 

however, we will note how from mid levels onward, initial attribute scores is far less significant when measuring relative combat efficacy than is talents and abilities. pallegina's attributes do not prevent her from fulfilling multiple roles, which we suspect were part o' the rationale behind her scores.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Archaven]

One of my biggest gripe with PoE was basically Per Rest vs Per Encounter. Both don't mix together at all. It's either make all as Per Encounter OR all as Per Rest. I basically see Per Encounter > Per Rest. Most of the time, you'll be forced to rest anyway if there are classes that rely on Per Rest mechanics. It basically discourage me to play as a Wizard because it drag down the party.

 

Basically for me, the rest mechanic is to make gameplay non-arcadey. Otherwise, there's no need to rest at all. Since Per Encounter does not bode well with Per Rest, i'd say eliminate Per Encounter altogether. Make it that there's sufficient casting for per rest so that gameplay will not be bog down by the need to keep resting.

[CJQ]

I’d like to say how impressed I‘ve been with the contributors on this topic. In my case, your efforts have paid dividends. It has cleared up misunderstandings I’ve had while battling through the game and the consequent frustration it generated. I am now more determined than ever to replay Pillars again (and again) until I feel I have mastered the party management system and no longer have the issues a general lack of game understanding had generated. It drove me close to abandoning the game altogether.

 

Just a thought: Obviously thousands bought this game. Many are likely to have tackled it, as I did, with a gung-ho attitude trying to blast their way across. But that was not the designers’ intention. The game has really been created for people like yourselves that are prepared to invest time to understand what it is all about.

 

All necessary information is there but trying to find, understand and process it properly has been my problem. For example, the “wotzit” is immune to XYZ attacks and so I need to switch the weapon of NPC3 and change the tactics of NPC5 to make each effective.

 

The game needs micro-management rather than the old “sock-it-and-see” approach. Players need patience and determination. I certainly have the latter but have suffered from insufficient patience – a desire to gallop onwards to see what’s in the next map area.

 

I can try putting blame on the new set-up of my PC. Microsoft has forced me off Windows XP which, in my humble opinion, was the best and most stable operating system they ever produced. I chose to go to Windows 7 which appeared to be my only option both for games and my life outside of RPGs. Needless to say the necessary reinstallation of Pillars, Steam and lots of other software was anything but smooth. I am fighting constantly with Windows 7 which seems to specialise in doing things in the manner MS thinks I might like - rather than the way I need it to operate.  I hadn’t realised until yesterday that the game’s AssetBundles were installed on my hard drive until I spent ages looking for them on the Steam & Obsidian websites.

 

I also discovered that the link with Steam can be disconnected completely because I bought the Pillars game on DVD. (I will reconnect when I purchase the expansions or there is another bug release).

 

In the last posting, I tried to write about the player’s inability to apply buffs before a battle. I must have been the only person not to notice a few words were missing and effectively I’d said the opposite. Everyone however did the gist.

 

GROMNIR - Thanks for your info. It did paint a somewhat amusing picture of a spy creeping up to an enemy position. He then would either have to rely on which bed he slept in the previous night, or he might have to whip up a banoffee pie & some chocolate cookies to binge on before tackling a tough fight. The only element of surprise would come if he could still lift his sword afterwards. As I did not really go into this area sufficiently, I will certainly do so the next time around.

 

KDUBYA – These are good tips. I actually entered some battles on “fast time” in the vain hope I could kill them all before they could get at me – another completely useless idea!! I seemed to manage traps rather well using Aloth as my “trapfinder” and “dismanteler”. He had the arsenal ready if an enemy tried to jump him. During his secondment for escort duties, I was forced to temporarily abandon the Dyrford Ruins because the party couldn’t manage the traps. Your point about team synergy is absolutely key to this game and to my cost, I did not achieve it this time around. Probably I would have had fewer problems, if in this first game I had used a smaller team of Eorn, Aloth and Durant - together with my character of a 2-H swordmaster.

 

JerekKruger  - Your advice on codes pushed me to explore more areas of Steam and my own PC. Once I discovered the AssetBundles were located on my own PC and not Steam, I used a bit of PC experience to turn the list of files into a directory of item names which were then added into my PoE database. The Bundles also revealed a bit about the mechanisms of the game which I found very useful. Three new helms had been added which match armor suits in my inventory. I suspect these actually don’t appear in PoE but probably are ready for the White March expansions.

 

JFUTRAL’s contribution also makes similar points to those I’m stumbling to make. PoE is in a league of its own when it comes to the necessity of mastering the game mechanics. Many RPGs – especially those written in recent years - are little more than “slash and hack”. That is definitely not  the winning formula for playing this game.

 

Most of you guys have invested months of effort working out how to balance the logistics of PoE. Have you thought of setting up an on-line tutorial course – naturally with examinations and diplomas at the finale to pass on your knowledge to the unwashed hordes?  Only joking – you have more battles to fight.

 

Many thanks

Chris

[ManifestedISO]

I was wrong earlier, Pillars hadn't changed, it was my perception. Five times through Tyranny erased the lesson of the cave bear and PoE's more-open encounter design, where it's possible to delve a dungeon designed for higher-level characters.

 

I'm glad I stuck with it, presently up in the White March with a Goldpact Knight PC, four hirelings, and Maneha. The rogue is pretty deadly from stealth with a bow, not sure why some say the class is under-powered--unless the metric is solo PotD runs, or something, dunno.

[JerekKruger]

... not sure why some say the class is under-powered--unless the metric is solo PotD runs, or something, dunno.

 

Because when compared to other classes, and when built optimally, the Rogue will either find themselves doing lower damage or find themselves doing comparable damage whilst bringing less utility to the group. Cipher's do slightly less single target damage than Rogues, but have a whole load of spells; Rangers do slightly less single target damage than a Rogue but can take talents that make each shot hit two or four targets, and come with a handy pet; Druids do better single target damage than Rogues and also have spells; Fighters do comparable single target damage to Rogues and are durable; Barbarians do lower single target damage than Rogues, but do AoE damage and, with Heart of Fury, can one shot most easier encounters; the list goes on...

 

It's not that Rogues can't be viable, or even that they can't be powerful, it's that when compared to other classes they simply aren't bringing as much to the party.

 

All that said, if you're enjoying your Rogue then that's all that really matters.

[Gromnir]

I was wrong earlier, Pillars hadn't changed, it was my perception. Five times through Tyranny erased the lesson of the cave bear and PoE's more-open encounter design, where it's possible to delve a dungeon designed for higher-level characters.

 

I'm glad I stuck with it, presently up in the White March with a Goldpact Knight PC, four hirelings, and Maneha. The rogue is pretty deadly from stealth with a bow, not sure why some say the class is under-powered--unless the metric is solo PotD runs, or something, dunno.

part o' the problem is stealth.  as you observe, backstab from stealthed character with the correct talents is gonna result in massive damage.

 

now what?

 

the backstab/stealth attacks is gonna see extreme limited use, which is why many folks trying to build an optimal rogue is gonna complete skip the backstab stuff.  sure, you are still gonna do darn impressive damage with sneak attacks, but you are squishy and you are much limited to single target punishment. in terms o' tactics, poe tends to lend itself towards quick elimination o' weaker m00ks in an encounter.  the barbarian and ranger and caster classes can remove multiple opponents in three attacks.  you can remove one m00k in two hits.  *shrug*   to get most use outta your single-target supremacy, you should likely be attacking the boss/mini-boss in any encounter, but again, most simple tactical dogma o' poe combat is geared towards eliminate chumps first, and in any event, bosses/mini bosses is the opponents on the field least likely to be suffering from debilitating effects, and is also most capable o' damaging your squishy rogue.  furthermore, with tanks being less efficacious at holding individual enemies in post 2.0 poe...

 

people do get a bit worked up 'bout optimal.  

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/85402-rogues-it´s-over/?p=1790500

 

devil worked well in our party, and devil is, in many ways, a less than ideal rogue.  to be a success as a poe class, the rogue don't have to be great or best, just can't be so terrible people avoid and it needs be perceived as fun.  as such, it would also be nice if the rogue were less limited.  people, people other than the optimal-build folks, would be far more likely to embrace the rogue if the class had a  few more options.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[JerekKruger]

to be a success as a poe class, the rogue don't have to be great or best, just can't be so terrible people avoid and it needs be perceived as fun. 

 

Definitely agreed! My biggest problem with the Rogue is not that they are under powered since, as you say, they aren't so under powered as to be a drag, it's that what they do and how they do it is just not very exciting compared to other classes. The max level Rogue ability is that ability to pretend to be dead..., the equivalent ability in WM1 was Sap, a 5s stun. Even Shadow Step*, which is at least interesting, kinda sucks since you have no control over when you teleport back. Meanwhile Paladins are wandering around on fire and Monks are flanked by their elemental simulacra.

 

*This reminds me of the time in WoW when I convinced someone that Shadowstep was a special dance that only Rogues could learn. I expected them to realise it was a joke, but since they didn't I sent them on a wild goose chase to unlock it. 

[CJQ]

Following good pointers given by JerekKruger, Kdubya and Gromnir, I started PoE from the beginning again. I now realise why I was having such a problem with Pillars and why the game appeared to be hard to manage.

 

I didn’t understand the full significance of the Auto-Pause Options and how they could be used to control player interaction. I deliberately had left the options on the default settings and this was the root of many problems experienced in my game play.

 

Another issue was the struggle caused by a Party Management bug - corrected by the v3.04 update

 

I also changed the auto-levelling of NPCs before they join the party. This has allowed me to distribute skill points more effectively.

 

Lastly I’m now playing the game off-line and an absence of the Steam connection appears to have improved Load /Save times.

 

One thing PoE did not have was a pre-built rogue character. It is one of my favourite character roles - but the experience of my first attempt, made me uneasy that with Eder as the sole grunt, I could struggle. Once again I chose a fighter main character but determined to buy an Adventurer and create the missing thief character as soon as I could raise the money.

 

From Cilant Lis, I headed for Gilded Vale without encounter. Following the main quest information (and having assembled the party), the next objective was to find Maerwald. With the thief operating in sneak mode leading, the party reached the Stronghold without hostile encounters.

 

The combination of Fighter (player character), Elven Thief (npc), with Eder, Aloth, Durant & Kana is proving completely formidable!! All hostile encounters are stormed through with hardly a scratch. No character has been knocked out (or seriously damaged) even when dealing with Maerwald. The only sleep required is when spellcasters have run out of spells. Each of the 6 characters (with the thief being one level below the rest) is playing a full role in the party - achieving similar amounts of hits, crits and kills. In my first painful attempt, the imbalance was so bad, it felt many npc were a hindrance only. Now in possession of the Stronghold, the party is back in Gilded Vale carrying on with quests and tasks.

 

I’ll shut up and go kill a few more Skuldr in the temple. Thanks again for the pointers - invaluable

Chris

[JerekKruger]

Glad to hear everything's fitting into place better for you CJQ, sounds like you've gotten a good handle on the game!