The Orderless Paladin - DPS Fighter Build - Looking for build advice

[TomReneth]

Currently my plan for the character is something like this:

 

Attributes:

 

Might - 16

 

Constitution - 8

 

Dexterity - 16

 

Perception - 14

 

Intelligence - 8

 

Resolve - 16

 

What I wonder about here is whether or not it is worth putting the last 2 points into dexterity and might, or if the +6% damage and/or speed can be dropped without too much loss. There is also whether or not I will suffer greatly for slightly lower intelligence. Alternatively, I've considered reducing Con and Int by 1 and Dex by 2.

 

Talents:

 

lvl 2 - Gallant's Focus (RP based. Also gives +4 accuracy to nearby allies instead of +6 to the Fighter only)

lvl 4 - Two-handed fighting (this is intented to be a 2-handed weapon build)

lvl 6 - Savage attack for more damage

 

Level 8 and onwards is a bit uncertain for me currently. Weapon Focus and Mastery are likely, but I am a we bit paranoid about Confused, Charmed and Dominated status effects, so Mental Fortress and Bull's Will are a couple I want to pick up.

 

Abilities:

 

lvl 1 - Knock Down

lvl 3 - Confident Aim

lvl 5 - Weapon Specialization (Adventurer or Soldier)

lvl 7 - Armored Grace

lvl 9 - Into the Fray

lvl 11 - Unbroken

lvl 13 - Sundering Blow?

 

Any criticism and suggestions here are welcome.

 

Equipment:

 

Open for suggestions.

 

Angio's Gambeson with its Spellbound "Deleterious Alacrity of Motion" (+50% attack speed for 30 seconds once per rest) is appealing to me.

 

Stuff that boosts Might and Dexterity.

[Ben No.3]

I'd rather use the plate with the frenzy spellbind... (Sanguine plate) and go dual wielding. +50% from dual wielding to compensate for plate, +20% from talent, +33% from frenzy and also considerable bonuses to might/constitution. It obviously also offers better protection and frenzy is per encounter rather than DAoM's per rest

 

So at least from gameplay, dual wielding makes sense... If you don't want to use that for roleplay simply don't

Edited September 22, 2016 by Ben No.3

[TomReneth]

I'd rather use the plate with the frenzy spellbind... (Sanguine plate?) and go dual wielding. +50% from dual wielding to compensate for plate, +20% from talent, +33% from frenzy and also considerable bonuses to might/constitution. It obviously Also offers better protection and frenzy is per encounter rather than DAoM's per rest

I get that, but I want to do a 2-handed build. I don't like dual wielding in games, largely in part because it was not a widespread way of fighting in history.

[Ben No.3]

Frenzy could be interesting from a roleplay standpoint though...

[Boeroer]

If you want him to be more paladin-like, you would need to put more INT into him. This would also be good for Constant Recovery and the AoE of Gallant's Focus as well as the duration of Knockdown, Into the Fray and Sundering Blow (if you want to take that).

 

I'm playtesting a support fighter at the moment and he has max INT because he uses "Take the Hit" and "Clear Out" and also Gallant's Focus. I have to say Take the Hit surprises me. It's superawesome if your fighter is sturdy enough and not the main tank but a second row supporter. It also is kind of an ability that you could expect for a paladin.

 

Clear Out is also very nice. It's only 2 per rest but I can't say how many times this saved my fighter's little hairy orlan booty. With high INT the AoE is huge enough to disable 5 or more (normal sized) foes and send them across the screen. Combined with Knockdown he's a great CC guy (for a fighter) and makes good use of Apprentices Sneak Attack. He uses Tall Grass from second row though, not great swords or estocs.

 

As a wannabe paladin, I would strongly recommend the great sword The Hours of St. Rumbalt. It's lore is that it's a paladin's weapon, and it has Overbearing (prone on crit) and Annihilation (+0.5 crit damage multipl.) and comes with Accuracy III (+12) enchantment. Combined with the fighter's high base ACC, high PER and Disciplined Barrage (a must for a dps fighter in my opinion) you will crit very often, resulting in very high crit damage and knocking the target down. Another plus are it's two damage types (which pikes and estocs lack).

The Blade of the Endless Paths is also a nice weapon for such a theme, because it has Marking and can be used to support a fellow team member with +10 ACC. But overall I find the great sword to be the better choice.

 

A front row fighter with 2H and only 8 CON will need strong self healing capabilitites or go down quickly. So I also recommend Rapid Recovery (scales with level) and a Belt of Bountiful Healing or Fulvano's Amulet for +25% healing. I would also raise surviuval up to 14 if possible (and if you don't wanmt to go for lore), for another +60% healing bonus. You are also very flexible with a +15 ACC bonus against certain enemies then. If you then take Unbending you become unkillable in tough encounters except when health starts to runs out. Unbending used to be superstrong - they patched it in the latest version and I can't say how strong it is now, but I killed an enemy fighter yesterday who had this and it still took forever to kill him. I wouldn't take Unbroken because it's nearly the same as Second Chance on an item, but you have to use an ability point for it (and it's per encounter of course). Second Chance and Unbroken don't work together. If you go down, both will be triggered for no special effect other that both charges are gone. If you go down every encounter (and are no barb with Vengeful Defeat or have a paladin with Behold the Nartyr with you), you are doing something wrong I'd say. And once you get up you will be knocked down again immediately.So I'd skip that ability. In a party you might have scrolls, paladins, priests or chanters anyway who can revive. My goal would be to not go down at all. 

 

A good combo of armor and boots would be Sanguine Plate + Shod in Faith. Your deflection will not be too good (no shield) and you will receive a crit from time to time. With high MIG and INT the Consecrated Ground will heal your allies and you (especially with that healing bonus of yours) a lot while Frenzy will last longer with high INT and will add +4 MIG and +4 CON as well as +33% speed. That's way better than the gambeson in my opinion. You can combine that with a Tempered Helm (it's +3 MIG and stuff now stacks with everything after your first kill). It looks good with the Sang. Plate and has awesome bonuses against mind control and some of the most nasty afflictions as paralyze and so on - you can skipt those talents then. If you choose any other item with +3 MIG you can pump your MIG bonuses from items to +10 MIG (Frenzy + Temp. Helm + another +3 item) after you got a crit and killed someone. That's pretty nice. An alternative to Sanguine Plate would be Outlander's Frenzy - but I don't think you can spare the talent point.

 

With Armored Grace and durganized Sanguine Plate you will already be fast. Frenzy, then put on Gauntlets of Swift Action, durganize the great sword and you'll have a attack speed bonus of 1.72 with only 0.15 malus from the plate - resulting in 1.57 speed bonus which is good for a 2 handed fighter ((2 meaning 0 recovery, 1 is normal speed)). And then your high DEX will speed you up further. If you would reach 0 recovery then DEX bonuses wouldn't do a lot anymore for your attack speed. DEX is applied after all the attack speed calc is done - and you can't reduce 0 recovery further with DEX. With the Blade otEP you would indeed have nearly 0 recovery in plate - and DEX wouldn't do a lot for your attack speed anymore. Another reason why I like the great sowerd better in this case. Of course all this speed stuff is late game talk. Before it comes to durgan steel and stuff like that high DEX will do you good.

 

With a 2hander's high base damage you want to take every bonus dmg talent/ability that you get. So Savage Attack, Two Handed Style, Weapon Spec. and Weapon Mastery are great, also Appr. Sneak attack (with an overbearing weapon it's even a must I'd say). If you want to wear the Bartender's Ring (+20% damage to spirits and vessel) and take a boreal dwarf (+15 ACC to wilder and primordial) and then squeeze in Beast Slayer and make your great sword kith-slaying (don't know if that fits into the 14 enchantment points if you also want to put a lash on it and make it superb?) you would do a lot af extra damage against every kind of enemy: +20% to vessels and spirits, +25% to beasts (including dragons), +15 ACC (= more crits) against WIlder and Primordial and +5 ACC and +25% damage against kith. Nice for dps. Combine that with all the dmg mods above and you'll do a lot of damage per hit. But I fear that there are not enough talent points for all of this.

 

Ok, enough from me I guess... need ice cubes, my fingertips are burning...

Edited September 22, 2016 by Boeroer

[TomReneth]

If you want him to be more paladin-like, you would need to put more INT into him. This would also be good for Constant Recovery and the AoE of Gallant's Focus as well as the duration of Knockdown, Into the Fray and Sundering Blow (if you want to take that).

 

I'm playtesting a support fighter at the moment and he has max INT because he uses "Take the Hit" and "Clear Out" and also Gallant's Focus. I have to say Take the Hit surprises me. It's superawesome if your fighter is sturdy enough and not the main tank but a second row supporter. It also is kind of an ability that you could expect for a paladin.

 

Clear Out is also very nice. It's only 2 per rest but I can't say how many times this saved my fighter's little hairy orlan booty. With high INT the AoE is huge enough to disable 5 or more (normal sized) foes and send them across the screen. Combined with Knockdown he's a great CC guy (for a fighter) and makes good use of Apprentices Sneak Attack. He uses Tall Grass from second row though, not great swords or estocs.

 

As a wannabe paladin, I would strongly recommend the great sword The Hours of St. Rumbalt. It's lore is that it's a paladin's weapon, and it has Overbearing (prone on crit) and Annihilation (+0.5 crit damage multipl.) and comes with Accuracy III (+12) enchantment. Combined with the fighter's high base ACC, high PER and Disciplined Barrage (a must for a dps fighter in my opinion) you will crit very often, resulting in very high crit damage and knocking the target down. Another plus are it's two damage types (which pikes and estocs lack).

The Blade of the Endless Paths is also a nice weapon for such a theme, because it has Marking and can be used to support a fellow team member with +10 ACC. But overall I find the great sword to be the better choice.

 

A front row fighter with 2H and only 8 CON will need strong self healing capabilitites or go down quickly. So I also recommend Rapid Recovery (scales with level) and a Belt of Bountiful Healing or Fulvano's Amulet for +25% healing. I would also raise surviuval up to 14 if possible (and if you don't wanmt to go for lore), for another +60% healing bonus. You are also very flexible with a +15 ACC bonus against certain enemies then. If you then take Unbending you become unkillable in tough encounters except when health starts to runs out. Unbending used to be superstrong - they patched it in the latest version and I can't say how strong it is now, but I killed an enemy fighter yesterday who had this and it still took forever to kill him. I wouldn't take Unbroken because it's nearly the same as Second Chance on an item, but you have to use an ability point for it (and it's per encounter of course). Second Chance and Unbroken don't work together. If you go down, both will be triggered for no special effect other that both charges are gone. If you go down every encounter (and are no barb with Vengeful Defeat or have a paladin with Behold the Nartyr with you), you are doing something wrong I'd say. And once you get up you will be knocked down again immediately.So I'd skip that ability. In a party you might have scrolls, paladins, priests or chanters anyway who can revive. My goal would be to not go down at all. 

 

A good combo of armor and boots would be Sanguine Plate + Shod in Faith. Your deflection will not be too good (no shield) and you will receive a crit from time to time. With high MIG and INT the Consecrated Ground will heal your allies and you (especially with that healing bonus of yours) a lot while Frenzy will last longer with high INT and will add +4 MIG and +4 CON as well as +33% speed. That's way better than the gambeson in my opinion. You can combine that with a Tempered Helm (it's +3 MIG and stuff now stacks with everything after your first kill). It looks good with the Sang. Plate and has awesome bonuses against mind control and some of the most nasty afflictions as paralyze and so on - you can skipt those talents then. If you choose any other item with +3 MIG you can pump your MIG bonuses from items to +10 MIG (Frenzy + Temp. Helm + another +3 item) after you got a crit and killed someone. That's pretty nice. An alternative to Sanguine Plate would be Outlander's Frenzy - but I don't think you can spare the talent point.

 

With Armored Grace and durganized Sanguine Plate you will already be fast. Frenzy, then put on Gauntlets of Swift Action, durganize the great sword and you'll have a attack speed bonus of 1.72 with only 0.15 malus from the plate - resulting in 1.57 speed bonus which is good for a 2 handed fighter ((2 meaning 0 recovery, 1 is normal speed)). And then your high DEX will speed you up further. If you would reach 0 recovery then DEX bonuses wouldn't do a lot anymore for your attack speed. DEX is applied after all the attack speed calc is done - and you can't reduce 0 recovery further with DEX. With the Blade otEP you would indeed have nearly 0 recovery in plate - and DEX wouldn't do a lot for your attack speed anymore. Another reason why I like the great sowerd better in this case. Of course all this speed stuff is late game talk. Before it comes to durgan steel and stuff like that high DEX will do you good.

 

With a 2hander's high base damage you want to take every bonus dmg talent/ability that you get. So Savage Attack, Two Handed Style, Weapon Spec. and Weapon Mastery are great, also Appr. Sneak attack (with an overbearing weapon it's even a must I'd say). If you want to wear the Bartender's Ring (+20% damage to spirits and vessel) and take a boreal dwarf (+15 ACC to wilder and primordial) and then squeeze in Beast Slayer and make your great sword kith-slaying (don't know if that fits into the 14 enchantment points if you also want to put a lash on it and make it superb?) you would do a lot af extra damage against every kind of enemy: +20% to vessels and spirits, +25% to beasts (including dragons), +15 ACC (= more crits) against WIlder and Primordial and +5 ACC and +25% damage against kith. Nice for dps. Combine that with all the dmg mods above and you'll do a lot of damage per hit. But I fear that there are not enough talent points for all of this.

 

Ok, enough from me I guess... need ice cubes, my fingertips are burning...

When it comes to Int, where would you recommend me taking points away from?

[Boeroer]

Depends - what do you need 16 RES for? Just because paladins should have high RES or do you want to have it because of dialogue options?  I personally would perhaps go for 15 MIG, DEX, PER and INT and put the rest evenly at CON and RES. But that doesn't mean that's a great decision.

[TomReneth]

Depends - what do you need 16 RES for? Just because paladins should have high RES or do you want to have it because of dialogue options?  I personally would perhaps go for 15 MIG, DEX, PER and INT and put the rest evenly at CON and RES. But that doesn't mean that's a great decision.

I picked RES simply because it gives Will defense and few deflection points to help a bit with survival to make up for the loss of Faith and Conviction. Seemed more important to me than increased duration and AoE. I really am not all that concerned with "fitting" the Paladin in so far that it compromises my Fighter's ability to, well, fight.

[Boeroer]

A few points of deflection make no difference. Since you are using no shield you will get hit anyways, some points in RES will not change that a lot. Lower concentration can be countered with potions and items. With more INT however you can have longer knockdowns, more staying power because things like Constant Recovery and Consecrated Ground as well as Unbending last longer, Sundering Blow last longer, Into the Fray has a longer range and so on. Disciplined Barrage is such a great ability for a dps fighter - +20 ACC is huge and gives you a lot of dps. You want to keep that bonus up as long as possible with high INT. You could even trade some MIG for INT just because of Disciplined Barrage. You'd be better off in terms of dps. 

 

In my opinion will is the least important defense (and fortitude the most important). But even with more INT instead of RES you don't change the will defense. The Tempered Helmet I mentioned also helps a lot against mind control. And when you face opponents who use mind control a lot: eat some snowcap and you're good to gow. No need to raise your will defense a lot. 

[Torm51]

If you want him to be more paladin-like, you would need to put more INT into him. This would also be good for Constant Recovery and the AoE of Gallant's Focus as well as the duration of Knockdown, Into the Fray and Sundering Blow (if you want to take that).

 

I'm playtesting a support fighter at the moment and he has max INT because he uses "Take the Hit" and "Clear Out" and also Gallant's Focus. I have to say Take the Hit surprises me. It's superawesome if your fighter is sturdy enough and not the main tank but a second row supporter. It also is kind of an ability that you could expect for a paladin.

 

Clear Out is also very nice. It's only 2 per rest but I can't say how many times this saved my fighter's little hairy orlan booty. With high INT the AoE is huge enough to disable 5 or more (normal sized) foes and send them across the screen. Combined with Knockdown he's a great CC guy (for a fighter) and makes good use of Apprentices Sneak Attack. He uses Tall Grass from second row though, not great swords or estocs.

 

As a wannabe paladin, I would strongly recommend the great sword The Hours of St. Rumbalt. It's lore is that it's a paladin's weapon, and it has Overbearing (prone on crit) and Annihilation (+0.5 crit damage multipl.) and comes with Accuracy III (+12) enchantment. Combined with the fighter's high base ACC, high PER and Disciplined Barrage (a must for a dps fighter in my opinion) you will crit very often, resulting in very high crit damage and knocking the target down. Another plus are it's two damage types (which pikes and estocs lack).

The Blade of the Endless Paths is also a nice weapon for such a theme, because it has Marking and can be used to support a fellow team member with +10 ACC. But overall I find the great sword to be the better choice.

 

A front row fighter with 2H and only 8 CON will need strong self healing capabilitites or go down quickly. So I also recommend Rapid Recovery (scales with level) and a Belt of Bountiful Healing or Fulvano's Amulet for +25% healing. I would also raise surviuval up to 14 if possible (and if you don't wanmt to go for lore), for another +60% healing bonus. You are also very flexible with a +15 ACC bonus against certain enemies then. If you then take Unbending you become unkillable in tough encounters except when health starts to runs out. Unbending used to be superstrong - they patched it in the latest version and I can't say how strong it is now, but I killed an enemy fighter yesterday who had this and it still took forever to kill him. I wouldn't take Unbroken because it's nearly the same as Second Chance on an item, but you have to use an ability point for it (and it's per encounter of course). Second Chance and Unbroken don't work together. If you go down, both will be triggered for no special effect other that both charges are gone. If you go down every encounter (and are no barb with Vengeful Defeat or have a paladin with Behold the Nartyr with you), you are doing something wrong I'd say. And once you get up you will be knocked down again immediately.So I'd skip that ability. In a party you might have scrolls, paladins, priests or chanters anyway who can revive. My goal would be to not go down at all.

 

A good combo of armor and boots would be Sanguine Plate + Shod in Faith. Your deflection will not be too good (no shield) and you will receive a crit from time to time. With high MIG and INT the Consecrated Ground will heal your allies and you (especially with that healing bonus of yours) a lot while Frenzy will last longer with high INT and will add +4 MIG and +4 CON as well as +33% speed. That's way better than the gambeson in my opinion. You can combine that with a Tempered Helm (it's +3 MIG and stuff now stacks with everything after your first kill). It looks good with the Sang. Plate and has awesome bonuses against mind control and some of the most nasty afflictions as paralyze and so on - you can skipt those talents then. If you choose any other item with +3 MIG you can pump your MIG bonuses from items to +10 MIG (Frenzy + Temp. Helm + another +3 item) after you got a crit and killed someone. That's pretty nice. An alternative to Sanguine Plate would be Outlander's Frenzy - but I don't think you can spare the talent point.

 

With Armored Grace and durganized Sanguine Plate you will already be fast. Frenzy, then put on Gauntlets of Swift Action, durganize the great sword and you'll have a attack speed bonus of 1.72 with only 0.15 malus from the plate - resulting in 1.57 speed bonus which is good for a 2 handed fighter ((2 meaning 0 recovery, 1 is normal speed)). And then your high DEX will speed you up further. If you would reach 0 recovery then DEX bonuses wouldn't do a lot anymore for your attack speed. DEX is applied after all the attack speed calc is done - and you can't reduce 0 recovery further with DEX. With the Blade otEP you would indeed have nearly 0 recovery in plate - and DEX wouldn't do a lot for your attack speed anymore. Another reason why I like the great sowerd better in this case. Of course all this speed stuff is late game talk. Before it comes to durgan steel and stuff like that high DEX will do you good.

 

With a 2hander's high base damage you want to take every bonus dmg talent/ability that you get. So Savage Attack, Two Handed Style, Weapon Spec. and Weapon Mastery are great, also Appr. Sneak attack (with an overbearing weapon it's even a must I'd say). If you want to wear the Bartender's Ring (+20% damage to spirits and vessel) and take a boreal dwarf (+15 ACC to wilder and primordial) and then squeeze in Beast Slayer and make your great sword kith-slaying (don't know if that fits into the 14 enchantment points if you also want to put a lash on it and make it superb?) you would do a lot af extra damage against every kind of enemy: +20% to vessels and spirits, +25% to beasts (including dragons), +15 ACC (= more crits) against WIlder and Primordial and +5 ACC and +25% damage against kith. Nice for dps. Combine that with all the dmg mods above and you'll do a lot of damage per hit. But I fear that there are not enough talent points for all of this.

 

Ok, enough from me I guess... need ice cubes, my fingertips are burning...

Oddly enough my long time POE friend it was a PRIEST of Eothas who lived in Raedceras that it was built in honor of.

[Boeroer]

Eh, right. Confused the lore with that of the Redeemer. 

Which is also not a bad choice of course - especially as  backup weapon against vessels.

Still THe Hours of St. Rumbalt is somewhat suiting for a faithful, paladinesque fighter. You could choose the clergyman background.  

[TomReneth]

A few points of deflection make no difference. Since you are using no shield you will get hit anyways, some points in RES will not change that a lot. Lower concentration can be countered with potions and items. With more INT however you can have longer knockdowns, more staying power because things like Constant Recovery and Consecrated Ground as well as Unbending last longer, Sundering Blow last longer, Into the Fray has a longer range and so on. Disciplined Barrage is such a great ability for a dps fighter - +20 ACC is huge and gives you a lot of dps. You want to keep that bonus up as long as possible with high INT. You could even trade some MIG for INT just because of Disciplined Barrage. You'd be better off in terms of dps. 

 

In my opinion will is the least important defense (and fortitude the most important). But even with more INT instead of RES you don't change the will defense. The Tempered Helmet I mentioned also helps a lot against mind control. And when you face opponents who use mind control a lot: eat some snowcap and you're good to gow. No need to raise your will defense a lot. 

Been playing a bit on Hard with a 16/8/16/14/16/8 Str/Con/Dex/Per/Int/Res and it is working pretty well so far. The Int bonus does seem to do more to keep me alove and kicking by boosting Disciplined Barrage and Constant Recovery than higher Con did as I first tried.

 

Having a little problem using Edér as my primary tank though. Any suggestions for what class/stat/race would make a generally good main tank?