Any guidelines for salvaging cards?

[DaveBaum]

I assume the gold recovered from salvaged cards is minimal, thus the primary benefit of salvaging is to thin out undesirable cards and thus increase your chance of encountering the more valuable cards.  Are there some general guidelines on when it is good or bad to salvage cards?

 

Let's say I have one copy of "Shortbow +1" in my vault, and one character in my Story mode party already has that card in their deck.  Under what circumstances might I encounter that card?

 

A. Story mode when that character is included in the scenario.

B. Story mode when that character isn't included in the current scenario.

C. Story mode with a new party.

D. Quest mode.

 

I guess I'm struggling with how the vault compares to the box in the physical game.  Mentally I keep thinking that each party has its own "box" with a complete copy of my vault, and quest mode also has its own box.  But maybe this isn't correct since you a party can have many more characters than you'd actually be able to construct with a physical set.

 

In the above example, what happens if I salvage my single copy of "Shortbow +1"?  Does it immediately disappear from the character's deck?  Or maybe the game doesn't allow you to salvage "in use" cards?

 

Do multiple copies of a card increase the chance of encountering that card?  If that's the case then there could be a definite advantage to keeping many copies of very desirable cards, even if you only ever wanted one per deck/party/whatever.  

 

If a treasure card is nearly at parity with a non-treasure card, should it be salvaged in order to increase your chances of running into the "good" treasure cards?

 

Do the current contents of the vault influence what may appear in future treasure chests?  For MtG Duels, there is a hard limit on copies of each card (based on rarity), and thus once you find 2 copies of a particular Rare, you are guaranteed that future booster packs will not contain that card.  One consequence of this is that you can be certain that X booster packs will yield a complete set (and you cannot purchase booster X+1).

 

I'm probably thinking about this too much.  It just seems like the Vault is potentially another level of deck building and I'd like to better understand the rules.

 

[sleonardo]

Let me try to answer this but cannot answer every single variety of your questions.   Basically, you are asking the same question(s).  

 

If you have a character in a different party that has shortbow + 1, but not in your current adventuring party, you will continue to encounter short bow +1, you can even keep that shortbow + 1.  The other character continues to have his/her shortbow + 1, until...  THIS IS IMPORTANT:  you bring the two characters with shortbow + 1 into the same party, in which case, one will disappear.  If you want to have both characters have a shortbow + 1 in the same party, you need to have 2 copies in vault (or 3, or 4, etc.).

 

Some cards, you want multiple copies of because each character may need one and/or some cards, even 1 character requires multiple copies of.

 

I do not know if the number of copies in vault affect the chances of finding one...  I am thinking, no.

Edited September 19, 2016 by sleonardo

[Nym]

I'm still working this out myself, see my post on all the undocumented stuff in this game, but the basic idea (I think) is that the possible boons in a scenario are equal to the contents of your vault minus the contents of your current party. Save characters not assigned to a party do not appear to factor into the equation. However, there does appear to be some weirdness with how this rule applies to adventure cards vs. treasure cards.

 

To answer your questions to the best of my ability,

 

If you salvage your single copy of Shortbow +1, it will disappear from the deck of the character who had it equipped. Note that this only seems to applyy to treasure cards, the game does not appear to care how many copies of a given adventure card you have on your party. I have something like 6 Hastes and 4 Swipes in my main party, even though 2 is the vault max for both cards.

 

Multiple copies of a card do appear to increase the chance to encounter it. I'm not absolutely sure on this, but I used to have 7 copies of Heat Metal, and I saw that spell a lot before I salvaged my total down to 2.

 

Provided that multiples actually do increase encounter chance, you could indeed salvage garbage treasure cards to up the odds of finding the better adventure cards.

 

So far as I know the contents of your value do not impact what you get out of chests, which would explain why I have 11 copies of Venomous Dart +2. It has been mentioned in a Dev Blog, that chest rewards are weighted toward giving items that can drop in current released adventures, but I have no idea what that exact weighting is.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Nym

[Ethics Gradient]

I'm probably thinking about this too much.  It just seems like the Vault is potentially another level of deck building and I'd like to better understand the rules.

 

The Gallery is simply a way to view all the cards you've unlocked and or/have available for play.

 

The Vault is generated dynamically each scenario.  It adds in all the appropriate adventure decks for the scenario, a random selection of your treasure cards, C Deck, Promos, and then removes any cards that your characters may possess.  There is also a culling process, which is pretty unnoticeable as AD3, but should have a bigger impact on removing Basic cards in AD4.  The Vault is analogous to the "box" in physical play.  The big difference is that it doesn't stay static between sessions.  Every time you load up a game, you're essentially reopening each Adventure Deck and sorting it into the box before play.

 

So, in a sense each party has their own "Vault," but in reality each party generates their own Vault on-the-fly depending on which cards your characters already have.

 

 

Multiple copies of a card do appear to increase the chance to encounter it. I'm not absolutely sure on this, but I used to have 7 copies of Heat Metal, and I saw that spell a ton before I salvaged my total down to 2.

 

 

This is absolutely correct.  

[Nym]

I figured as much. That's sort of rubbish. A ton of the treasure cards are completely worthless and having them clogging up location decks is sort of a bummer. I wish you could salvage them more than one at a time.

[Ethics Gradient]

I figured as much. That's sort of rubbish. A ton of the treasure cards are completely worthless and having them clogging up location decks is sort of a bummer. I wish you could salvage them more than one at a time.

Important thing to know:  Not every treasure card you own gets mixed into the Vault each gaming session.  It is part of the dynamic Vault process.

 

Only a specific number of randomly-selected treasure cards are available for play each scenario.  The intent is that even when you're playing with Treasure Cards "on," the core of the game will always remain mostly the same.  Otherwise, you'd run the risk of completely throwing everything off balance when your 35 Blacksmiths crowd out everything else.

[Nym]

Oh my god! You can turn treasure cards off?

 

I didn't even notice that option. So much stuff this game doesn't tell you.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Nym

[firestormkirby]

 

I figured as much. That's sort of rubbish. A ton of the treasure cards are completely worthless and having them clogging up location decks is sort of a bummer. I wish you could salvage them more than one at a time.

Important thing to know:  Not every treasure card you own gets mixed into the Vault each gaming session.  It is part of the dynamic Vault process.

 

Only a specific number of randomly-selected treasure cards are available for play each scenario.  The intent is that even when you're playing with Treasure Cards "on," the core of the game will always remain mostly the same.  Otherwise, you'd run the risk of completely throwing everything off balance when your 35 Blacksmiths crowd out everything else.

 

Yes it is very important this happens, or I'd only have Black Arrow Longbows as weapons. I have somehow managed to acquire 206 of them and can't salvage any. LOL. I still only encounter 1 and occasionally 2 per scenario, when I should be be encountering them 2 out of 3 cards.

[Ethics Gradient]

Oh man, that's a lot of Black Arrow Longbows.

 

But the important question is: 206 out of how many other treasure cards?  Its not a huge deal if that's roughly in proportion to the rest of your treasure cards, but a huge imbalance like that would guarantee that they would make up a sizable of chunk of treasure cards selected for inclusion in the Vault during a scenario.

[Bajie]

Oh man, that's a lot of Black Arrow Longbows.

 

But the important question is: 206 out of how many other treasure cards?  Its not a huge deal if that's roughly in proportion to the rest of your treasure cards, but a huge imbalance like that would guarantee that they would make up a sizable of chunk of treasure cards selected for inclusion in the Vault during a scenario.

But every location has a set number of card types in them. I think the scenario decides which location/s will have a treasure card/s (as opposed to basic/ad specific cards) first then decides which card type (weapon, armor, etc) it will be, then chooses from your vault (of the card type chosen) it will be. With those variables, it kinda minimize the probability of flooding the scenario with treasure cards you have tons of.

[Bajie]

I figured as much. That's sort of rubbish. A ton of the treasure cards are completely worthless and having them clogging up location decks is sort of a bummer. I wish you could salvage them more than one at a time.

I think they're working on it. Making tedious, repetitive actions be done in multiples.

[Ethics Gradient]

I think the scenario decides which location/s will have a treasure card/s (as opposed to basic/ad specific cards) first then decides which card type (weapon, armor, etc) it will be, then chooses from your vault (of the card type chosen) it will be. With those variables, it kinda minimize the probability of flooding the scenario with treasure cards you have tons of.

Random Treasure Cards are simply added to your Vault for the scenario, and then may chosen for play like any other boon.

 

As of AD3, the chances of drawing a Treasure Card for play approximately range from [1 in 7] to [1 in 3].  This assumes you have a enough treasure cards to max out the selection limits.  If you have only opened a handful of Treasure Chests, your odds of seeing them are much lower.

 

This also assumes you aren't playing with C Deck.  With C Deck added to the pool, your treasure card odds at AD3 range from [1 in 9] to [1 in 4].

 

Edit: Forgot about C Deck.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Ethics Gradient

[Longshot11]

 

 

I figured as much. That's sort of rubbish. A ton of the treasure cards are completely worthless and having them clogging up location decks is sort of a bummer. I wish you could salvage them more than one at a time.

Important thing to know:  Not every treasure card you own gets mixed into the Vault each gaming session.  It is part of the dynamic Vault process.

 

Only a specific number of randomly-selected treasure cards are available for play each scenario.  The intent is that even when you're playing with Treasure Cards "on," the core of the game will always remain mostly the same.  Otherwise, you'd run the risk of completely throwing everything off balance when your 35 Blacksmiths crowd out everything else.

 

Yes it is very important this happens, or I'd only have Black Arrow Longbows as weapons. I have somehow managed to acquire 206 of them and can't salvage any. LOL. I still only encounter 1 and occasionally 2 per scenario, when I should be be encountering them 2 out of 3 cards.

 

Wait, what?

 

The BAL is the AD3 "complete all on Legendary reward" and by design you shouldn't be able to get more than 1 of it ever; it doesn't drop from chests to my knowledge.

[Ethics Gradient]

Wait, what?

 

 

The BAL is the AD3 "complete all on Legendary reward" and by design you shouldn't be able to get more than 1 of it ever; it doesn't drop from chests to my knowledge.

Oh man, I completely didn't notice that.  You're right!

 

Black Arrow Longbow is a non-salvageable treasure card.  Should only be earned once through legendary completions, and there's no way to sell them off.  Some epic brainfart of the app must have granted firestormkirby 200 copies (salvage would be ~4000 gold).  The problem with this is that it really dilutes the treasure pool.  Unless he's got some crazy number of other treasure cards, it's nearly guaranteed that the App will be stuffing 10-20 of them in the vault during each scenario.  There are a whole bunch of treasure cards he's likely to never/rarely see because of this.

 

Edit: typo'd

Edited September 20, 2016 by Ethics Gradient

[Nym]

Ethics Gradient, would you mind going into more detail on the odds of encountering treasure cards during a scenario? You say that, as of AD3, the range is between [1 in 7] and [1 in 3], higher if you have the C deck. How is that calculated?

[Ethics Gradient]

Ethics Gradient, would you mind going into more detail on the odds of encountering treasure cards during a scenario? You say that, as of AD3, the range is between [1 in 7] and [1 in 3], higher if you have the C deck. How is that calculated?

Here's the basic gist of it (rounding to the nearest 5; precision isn't terribly important; everything could change; etc...).

 

At AD3, the Vault should normally contain ~200 regular boons (~265 if you have C Deck and the Promo Cards).  When the treasure cards are added, approximately 10 to 25 random treasure cards from each AD are mixed in.  So, at AD3, you're looking at an additional 40 to 100 boons selected for inclusion in the Vault, equally divided amongst AD(B,1,2,3).  

 

The key point is that treasure works by adding boons to the vault, which then have the same likelihood of inclusion in a location as any other boon.

 

Here are some rough examples.  Keep in mind that the numbers are somewhat fluid (will change at AD4), depends on the card requirements for scenario locations, and you require at least that many treasure cards.  If you have fewer treasure cards, the percentages obviously go down.  Think of it more as an ideal maximum.

----

AD3 Low-end max percentage = 40/(200+40) = 16%

AD3 Low-end max percentage (w/addons) = 40/(200+40+65) = 13%

 

AD3 High-end max percentage = 100/(200+100) = 33%

AD3 High-end max percentage (w/addons) = 100/(200+100+65) = 27%

----

In firestormkirby's situation above.  His AD3 selections are always likely to be clobbered by Black Arrow Longbows because he has a preposterously high quantity of them. His B,1,2 picks should be ok, but the odds aren't great that he'll see any other AD3 treasures very often.

[Nym]

Wonderful, do you mind if I paraphrase all that for the guide I'm putting together?

[Ethics Gradient]

Wonderful, do you mind if I paraphrase all that for the guide I'm putting together?

Sure thing.  Also, keep in mind that this all happens before the box is culled.  It is entirely possible that Treasure Cards with Basic Traits (or Elite Traits, someday) can be selected then culled before the scenario has a opportunity to deal them out.

 

There are a currently little more than a dozen Treasure Cards with the Basic trait.  Expect them to be pretty scarce AD4+.  The 40 or so Elite treasures should make their exit AD5+.

[Nym]

Wouldn't it be kind of backwards to cull them after they'd been drafted for the location pool?

[Ethics Gradient]

Wouldn't it be kind of backwards to cull them after they'd been drafted for the location pool?

Yes.  My only point was that treasure cards aren't exempt from culling.  The random addition of treasure cards to the vault still occurs before the random culling of all cards.

 

If you have a lot of treasures with Basic traits, they may still fill up the scenario's "treasure quota" even if they are deleted before play.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Ethics Gradient

[firestormkirby]

 

 

 

I figured as much. That's sort of rubbish. A ton of the treasure cards are completely worthless and having them clogging up location decks is sort of a bummer. I wish you could salvage them more than one at a time.

Important thing to know:  Not every treasure card you own gets mixed into the Vault each gaming session.  It is part of the dynamic Vault process.

 

Only a specific number of randomly-selected treasure cards are available for play each scenario.  The intent is that even when you're playing with Treasure Cards "on," the core of the game will always remain mostly the same.  Otherwise, you'd run the risk of completely throwing everything off balance when your 35 Blacksmiths crowd out everything else.

 

Yes it is very important this happens, or I'd only have Black Arrow Longbows as weapons. I have somehow managed to acquire 206 of them and can't salvage any. LOL. I still only encounter 1 and occasionally 2 per scenario, when I should be be encountering them 2 out of 3 cards.

 

Wait, what?

 

The BAL is the AD3 "complete all on Legendary reward" and by design you shouldn't be able to get more than 1 of it ever; it doesn't drop from chests to my knowledge.

 

Correct, I was replaying AD3 legendary scenarios and I kept getting them. I didn't think nothing of it becasue the game got patch, I thought you could only get one and the game was just bugged from the patch. Well to my surprise when I went to my vault and it takes 5 times longer to load the AD3 weapons page and then there are 206 of them in my vault. 

 

I also have:

5 Samisens

39 Orik's Shields

6 Skinsaw masks

[Aarik D]

Hey Firestormkirby,

 

We are still currently looking into this issue as it was reported before in the past. But what i can do is go into your account delete all of your excess reward cards and bring it down to 1, that will definitely help out your performance issue. 

 

If anyone else is has large amounts of reward cards in your vault, just post up your PFID# and I can clear those out for as well.

 

Thanks a bunch!

[stevozip]

It's not a huge proportion, but I have two copies of the Skinsaw Mask.  PFID F75AADCF9BD598C9

[stevozip]

Hopefully someone can clear this up for me.

 

I have one copy of Deathbane Light Crossbow +1 and one copy of Locksmith Leather in my vault.  When playing quest mode both Harsk and Lem have the crossbow in their deck and are able to play the same scenario but if I try to group Valeros and Seelah together who each have a copy of Locksmith Leather, I have to replace Seelah's copy in her deck each time I try to start the scenario.  Why?  Is it because the crossbow is not a treasure card?  This doesn't make sense.

[Ethics Gradient]

Hopefully someone can clear this up for me.

 

I have one copy of Deathbane Light Crossbow +1 and one copy of Locksmith Leather in my vault.  When playing quest mode both Harsk and Lem have the crossbow in their deck and are able to play the same scenario but if I try to group Valeros and Seelah together who each have a copy of Locksmith Leather, I have to replace Seelah's copy in her deck each time I try to start the scenario.  Why?  Is it because the crossbow is not a treasure card?  This doesn't make sense.

That's exactly it.  "Normal" cards aren't subject to any particular limits.  You can possess any number of them through trading/merging parties.

Treasure Cards have enforced limits.  Any party cannot have more of a treasure card than you've received in treasure chests.  If merging parties puts you over the limit, one will disappear and you'll have to pick a replacement card.