The annoying noob strikes back!

[rheingold]

Just thinking... shouldn't it be "The annoying noob strikes again", rather than "strikes back"? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ummm... somehow "the empire strikes again" doesn't have the same ring...

Edited August 10, 2016 by rheingold

[rheingold]

Just bear in mind that easy is actually not that easy - unless you mean story time. The middle difficulties are very close to one another. In fact the only difference between easy and hard is the amount and type of creatures you encounter. Their stats are still the same. So, yeah its easier overall, but there can still be some tough fights on easy, mainly the dragon fights - they won't have any adds with them which helps a lot, but the dragons are still painful. At one point when I was really battling against the adra dragon I dropped down to easy.... Darn dragon still kept one shotting my party. Turns out the adds were not the problem

Edited August 10, 2016 by rheingold

[Slack83er]

What a nice build! If I can I will test it today! I'm not really into Orlans, maybe you can suggest another fitting race? Something like elf maybe? Or godlike... Dunno... Or human...

 

Somewhere on the board I also saw a nice dwarven paladin, developed around social abilities and buffing the group... Can't remember where I saw it... But as you stated before, the build you gave me is very effective mentally-wise... I like it!

Which exact role must this build fit in the party? Since you told me it's not a tank... How should I play it? I focus on the story and role play a lot... By the way... What makes stilettos and blunderbuss so fitting in turn build? Do they carry some useful stat? Sorry I just don't know all of the little secrets of this game.. I was thinking that without a shield I might get squishy...

[Boeroer]

Kind Wayfarers are nice in combination with kill stealing: they have two powerful healing abilities, one gets triggered when you kill an enemy. You need to do some damage for that so it's good not to skill your paladin 100% defensively. Search for "damaging healbot" in the forum here. I think that build never made it to the index, but it's great. The inventor used Moon Godlike + Kind Wayfarer + Sword & Shepherd + Strange Mercy to build a paladin who heals like crazy. This would work well with dual wielding like described above. You can also add Envenomed Strike. It#s good with high MIG and INT and it will most certainly kill an enemy - triggering healing. Not very kind, I know - but a strange mercy perhaps.

 

What also works and is fun is an offensive paladin build around fire. Use a Fire Godlike - it's racial ability scales with level. It might seem to be weak at first, but later on it can really do a lot of damage. Choose high CON, MIG and INT (and not too bad PER). Choose either Darcozzi Paladini with Fires of Darcozzi Palace or Goldpact Knights with Enduring Flames. Take whatever two handed weapon (focus) you like - for example great sword or pollaxe or estoc or morning star - even pike or quarterstaff or durance's staff works well (it's a very good weapon early in the game because it has two damage types, crush and burn. At that stage there are a lot of enemies with low burn DR).*    

Then buy Forgemaster's Gloves from Dunstan in Crucible Keep. Those can summon the great sword Firebrand 3 times per rest. Usually the duration is long enough for a whole fight with a party on easy or normal. That great sword is made out of flames and does pure burn damage and works with ANY weapon focus.

So, you have that flaming great sword (and it's really BIG) that you can use with your burning FoD, you have a flaming head, you will either cause a burn DoT effect with FoD (Goldpact) or get Flame Shield (Darcozzi). I like Darcozzi better because they are passionate and that's more fitting. Also the other order related talent "Inspiring Exhortaion" is way better in my opinion (stacks with everything). Ant later on you will have Sacred Immolation. All this is burn damage. And it adds up pretty nicely.

So now you should take Scion of Flame - it will improve all that burning damage by 20% - also the burniung lash you will put onto your main weapon. Only the Goldpact DoT will not be affected - DoTs don't work with Scion of Flame. Firebrand's base damage - which is already very high - will improve by +20%, this will increase the damage on which the 75% of FoD is based, which will also be boosted by 20%. If you drop below 50% endurance, you will retaliate with fire and gain +4 DR (stacks with Zealous Endurance), that retaliation is also boosted by +20%. Your FoD will give you a Flame Shield that also retaliates which also gets boosted by 20%. Your Sacred Immolation will get boosted by 20%. 

Put on plate first - later put on the Sun Touched Mail (you get it after you defeated some thiefs who stole a scroll of Wael it's on of the first quests in Defiance Bay). It has 3 uses of Sunbeam per rest. It's a great spell that does burn damage and blinds. Then later you can find the Amulet of Summer Solstice. This also has 3 uses of Sunbeam per rest. Guess what? That spell also gets boosted by Scion of Flame.

Never was Scion of Flame more useful than here.

Firebrand is annihilating by the way - meaning it has double crit damage bonus. With FoD and Sworn Enemy you will have +40 ACC - this should result in crits. Your FoD will do a looot of damage. Also use all the +dmg mods you can get like Savage Attack and Two Handed Style. Don't use Vulnerable Attack, it's not worth it with such high base damage.

Also put on Shod-in-Faith boots if you have nobody else who can make good use of them. 

It's a nice combo of sturdyness (very high DR and CON and the natural high defenses and healings of a paladin) plus a good amount of damage (2 x burning retaliation, 2x FoD, a flaming sword with good damage).

 

Some of my abilites/talents would be (just what comes to mind):

- FoD

- Lay on Hands

- Zealous Endurance

- Intense Flames

- Sworn Enemy

- Scion of Flame

- Savage Attack

- Two Weapon Style

- Outlander's Frenzy maybe - gives you more MIG and CON and also attack speed but lowers defelction and obscures health/endurance stats.

- Veteran's Recovery - only  if you feel he's going down a lot despite the +4 DR and Battle Forged retaliation

- Weapon Focus what you like

- Inspiring Liberation (if you also want to be a supporter - then you might also want to take Coordinated Attacks if you have points left)

- Fires of Darcozzi Palace

- Sacred Immolation

- Behold the Martyr (be useful even if you go down)

- some defensive talents like Bear's Fortitude and such

- dunno - maybe something else I forgot about.

 

)*  I think I would take estoc for Blade of the Endless paths or peasant for Durance's Staff and later also Taluntain's Staff (has 3 Fireball uses per rest) for the second weapon slot. Tidefall is also great, but tide and flames - I don't know if that fits thematically. When you choose to siphon knowledge from Maerwald you can also get the sabre "the Flames of Fair Rhian" in lvl 13 of the Endless Paths. It has has 3 Fireballs per rest, too. You can wear this with the Outworn Buckler or even duplicate it with the Helwax Mold (Stronhold quest item) and dual wield. Then you would have 6 Fireballs per rest, even 9 per rest with Taluntain's Staff. But you would have to retrain then to dual wielding sabres. But maybe that's best because once you get Durgan Steel Firebrand starts to become inferior - until then it's top notch though.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

Ups, added a lot (too much) with an edit...

[rheingold]

Not sure if the op has tried a chanter? They definitely do not need to be min/maxed and are good from a roleplay point of view if that's his major concern.

[Slack83er]

Hi rhein, no, never tried it. Isn't it a bit microintensive or squishy? I'm open to all suggestions...

[rheingold]

It's actually a great class... Tanks well, has some crowd control and dps at later levels. Can be micro intensive or not, it's your choice, though it's never going to be as micro intensive as a rogue....

Any race works well enough, really only moon godlike is overpowered, so you can choose whatever you like. I'm partial to boreal dwarves or pale elves myself. Boeroer has got 2 excellent builds chillfog and the drakes ambassador. Regarding stats, you seriously don't have to min/max in this game if you don't want to. That includes POTD. So if you like a build just remember you can use the idea and tweak the stats to your liking. For a chanter I like str 16, Int 16, Res 16 everything else at 10. Gives a large number of dialogue options from high resolve and Int. Bear in mind that chanters are really powerful but very deceptive characters. You only start noticing them at high levels even though they do more than pull their weight at low levels. They are just not flashy before say 9th level or so.

Edited August 10, 2016 by rheingold

[Slack83er]

Mmm.. I'll open the game and see if the class appeals to me.. Never tried... thanks for the moment...

 

EDIT.. no...thanks mate but this whole chanting mechanic doesn't appeal that much to me... but thanks nonetheless.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Slack83er

[Boeroer]

Chanters are awesome by the way. Can be played with minimum of micromanagement, a lot of tankyness and a TON of damage. One of my most favorite classes for soloing. But what about the fiery paladin with da big burnin' sword? Not appealing?

Edited August 10, 2016 by Boeroer

[Slack83er]

Right now I was playing the paladin that the other guy suggested... I'm trying all the build you give me. Next will be yours, Boeroer. 

At the moment I don't dislike that build... maybe I must carve a background around him but... not bad. 2hand fighting is not bad, as it reduces the penalties in speed for low dex...

 

Edit... come to think of it... would it be possible to "mix" the two builds? Somehow... I like them both...

Edited August 10, 2016 by Slack83er

[Loren Tyr]

Just as a general observation, I would advise against using Blunderbuss with Flames of Devotion. Just like the six pellets themselves, any Lashes on those pellets individually reduced by DR so it suffers much more against high DR targets. Moreover, Lashes don't benefit from DR reduction (either from the weapon itself or from effects like Penetrating Shot or Vulnerable Attack). Arquebus is the best weapon for this, but staying in the Ruffian WF a pistol is also usually a better bet in this regard. 

[Boeroer]

It's just an outlook what will become of this fire paladin - of course you don't start with all that stuff. I'm only watering his mouth.

 

I won't dump DEX with Two Handers, true - but you don't need superhigh DEX to make them work. Your main damage source will be FoD and you only have 2 of those per encounter. But with Firebrand those two hits - especially with Scion of Flame - really hurt a lot.

 

Battle Forged - here the +4 DR - is not bad in the early game, too. It's not as powerful as Silver Tid from Moon Godlikes but it scales better with level and fits the theme.

 

You can of course use dual wield fast weapons like stilettos instead and use guns for FoD. It's just that the optics of a aumaua sized Fire Godlike with a giant burning sword are quite... cool?  

[Boeroer]

Just as a general observation, I would advise against using Blunderbuss with Flames of Devotion. Just like the six pellets themselves, any Lashes on those pellets individually reduced by DR so it suffers much more against high DR targets. Moreover, Lashes don't benefit from DR reduction (either from the weapon itself or from effects like Penetrating Shot or Vulnerable Attack). Arquebus is the best weapon for this, but staying in the Ruffian WF a pistol is also usually a better bet in this regard. 

True - although a blunderbusses is by far the best weapon to use for FoD when you meet foes with low DR (like ghuls, most enemy wizards and such). So the ruffian group is not bad for adapting to different enemies: pistol for the guys in thick armor, blunderbuss for the soft ones.  There are some nice pistols out there. The base damage is not as good as those of arquebuses, but the uniques have really nice enchantments. Same with the blunderbusses. Arquebuses don't have such a nice variant of uniques.

 

What you can do in order to make blunderbusses work against most targets is to have party members who can lower DR - like fighters (Sundering Blow, -8 DR, late), chanters (Hel-Hyraff, -5 DR, early), wizards (Expose Vulnerabilities, -5 DR, early), cipher (-7, Borrowed Insticts, mid). I don't know if all those stack - and if it's all worth the fuzz.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2016 by Boeroer

[Slack83er]

Hehe thanks for your affection Say... seing as the two builds are tough to combine, how about maybe respeccing him later in the game? I started with Ben's configuration and must say that even with low dex, he IS quite fast and damaging. It's easy to build and has strong mental attitudes..Is stiletto the only weapon that bypasses dr? 

[Boeroer]

No, besides stilettos there are also all estocs (5 DR bypass) and all maces (3 DR bypass). There's one special estoc that has even 8 DR bypass (Drake's Bell, first bounty quest) as well as one stiletto that has 6 (Bleak Fang, late game).

And all guns have inherent DR bypass (pistols and arquebuses 6, blunderbusses 4)

 

Then there are some unique weapons that have DR bypass as special enchantment:

- Sword of Daenysis: a rapier with 3 DR bypass, also speed enchanted. Early to get and a great weapon - also together with the March Steel Dagger (speed enchanted). With those two you can play a duelist themed character who hits superfast.

- Cat's Claw: a sword with 3 DR bypass, late game

- Hearth Harvest: a hatchet with 3 DR bypass, early/mid game

 

And other ranges weapns like two bows and a rod and whatnot.

[Boeroer]

Yeah - but as Loren Tyr pointed out: blunderbusses with FoD are very weak against high DR targets - even if you use Lead Spitter with Penetrating Shot (=12 DR bypass) because the FoD elemental lash and also the lash enchantments don't profit from those DR bypasses - only the initial piercing pellets will bypass DR, not hte elemental lashes. So the burning part of FoD  will just evaporate. You have to lower the enemy's DR directly (not stack DR bypass) to make blunderbusses with FoD worthwhile against high DR targets. For soft targets they are awesome. But then: no need to lower DR anyways.

[Slack83er]

I see! so either that or mace to be fast enough.... with mace a little stronger but little slower, correct? Why the blunderbuss over pistol, for example?

 

EDIT Boeroer almost answered my question... I really like though the idea of a "lawless paladin" or such... would pistol do a better job or shall i bring 3 slots?

Edited August 10, 2016 by Slack83er

[Boeroer]

As I said: since it's both in the same weapon group, you can use pistols for enemies with high DR and blunderbusses for enemies with low DR. But sadly sou will not know how many DR the enemy has before the combat starts - because it's your first run.

 

A save choice would be Weapon Focus Soldier with arbalests, arquebuses (both great for FoD shots, arbalests also knock down the enemy when you crit - with FoD and Sworn Enemy this happens often) and war hammers. Those do damage like maces, but without the DR reduction. Instead they have two damage types (crush or pierce) which I - personally - like better than 3 DR bypass. The hammer will roll damage agsinst the DR that is weaker. In a lot of cases the difference is higher than 3, making it better than 3 DR bypass. It's also very convinient if you meet enemies who are immune to pierce, crush or slash damage. Also, dual wielding hammers looks better than dual wielding maces - but less good than dual wielding stilettos or sabres.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Boeroer

[Climhazzard]

To be blunt, you can't judge a class at all based on your experience of it from level 1 to 4.  You need to actually play further into the game and learn its mechanics instead of rerolling your MC everyday.

 

Some Tips and knowledge to help you learn the game...

 

Spacebar pauses combat.  Pause combat frequently to make decisions, select enemy targets, cast spells, etc.  In the game options you can set when you want combat to pause automatically, such as when a character has low endurance.

 

If 2 melee characters attack an enemy from different sides it creates the flanking debuff which makes the enemy easier to hit, same thing happens to your own characters if they are hit by multiple enemies from different sides.  This also happens to be one of the debuffs that enable rogues to sneak attack.

 

When melee attack they engage their opponent, if their opponent attempts to disengage from them (move away) they get a free attack against the opponent.  Because of this it is dangerous to freely move around melee opponents, especially with squishy characters like casters.

 

Accuracy determines whether your attacks and spells will miss, graze, hit, or crit your opponents.  All attacks and spells use accuracy and roll against different defenses.  An attack or spell that grazes does 50% reduced damage and will have a 50% reduced duration.  An attack or spell that crits does 50% additional damage and has a 50% longer duration.  

 

Your defenses are deflection, fortitude, reflex, and will.  

 

Deflection protects you from mainly physical attacks, swords, arrows, etc.  The higher your deflection the less you'll get hit or crit from these kind of attacks.  Shields and deflection items (such as the ring of minor deflection) improve your deflection score.

 

Fortitude attacks are generally effects like poison or crowd control like prone.  Prone causes your character to get knocked down and be easier to hit, for this reason it is a very important defense for your front line characters and fighters.  Constitution and Might scores improve your fortitude defense.

 

Reflex attacks are generally area of effect damage spells, examples include fireball, and dragon breath attacks.  There are many such attacks, having a high reflex defense will help protect you from them.  Reflex defense is increased by dexterity and perception scores.

 

Will attacks are generally crowd control that negatively effect your character.  Example include stun, paralyze, charm, and dominate.  You can imagine how devastating those effects can be, having high will defense protects you from them.  The will defense is improved through intelligence and resolve scores.

 

Your base accuracy and defenses are determined by your class.  They all improve as you level up, and can be further improved by talents and items.  All spells that target enemies will tell you what defense they target in their description.  If expert mode is turned off the target information will tell you what defenses the enemy has, use this information to determine which spells to use against them.  If for example they have a high deflection but low will defense, use a paralyze spell which targets their will defense and will lower their deflection substantially when successful.

 

Another kind of defense you have is provided by armor, and certain spells or items.  This is damage reduction, DR for short.  DR reduces the damage from attacks once they hit you.  For example, a normal breastplate has 8 DR, if an attack hits you for 20 damage, 8 of that will be subtracted if you're wearing a breastplate, so that the attack only hits for 12 damage.  That is not an uncommon example, so armor is a very important defense to your survival.  Armor comes with a downside though, it slows you down by increasing the recovery time after any of your actions, the heavier the armor is the more it slows you down.

 

Shields also have a downside, they reduce your accuracy.  Because of this, your tankiest characters which have a large shield and heavy plate armor, are slow and have a hard time hitting their opponents, they don't do a lot of damage.

 

My point is that there is a ton to learn about this game (that was barely the basics).  You don't need to learn it all, or any if you play on storytime mode, but learning the basics will make the game much easier for you and more enjoyable.  You should also know that most classes don't start to mature until level 6-10, some even later, judging them based on what is essentially the tutorial area is pointless.

 

What I'm trying to say is, get into the game, play it, learn it.  Play on whatever difficulty you find enjoyable while you're learning it.  What i'm seeing from most of your posts is that most of the advice you've got from all the good responses to your threads has been going over your head.  That's understandable as your new and this is a forum full of vets who think everyone plays games like them.  As you start to learn the game, go back through your previous threads and read the replies in them, you'll find many of the answers you need have already been posted, if you don't find what you're looking for then by all means ask away until you're happy and having fun with the game. 

 

EDIT:  I apologize if this comes off as rude, it's not intended to be.  Don't take me to seriously anyhow.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Climhazzard

[Slack83er]

Hi Clim and thanks for the big post you made me. When I reroll my MC it's usually not due to low strenght or other mechanical things, but it's mainly due to the fact that I don't like the flavor of the build... It can be aesthetical, it can look bad to me, or I simply may not like the flavor of the class (e.g. the chanter... don't like the idea of having someone singing when he flings his sword... it's a matter of tastes.. not of the class own strenght, I recognize it may be strong) Thus, I'm continuing to brainstorm over my MC to find a flavor (the class will be paladin..) that suits my own playstyle. Add this to the fact that I absolutely dislike stereotypes (knight in shining armor....y'know..) and see why I'm almost there with the pala suggested by ben, on which I'm making the final modifications.

What you wrote, instead, it's right, and as soon as the flavor meets my tastes, I'll surely play far more than 4th level, I promise!

 

P.s. Clim, it's not rude, by all means!

Edited August 10, 2016 by Slack83er

[Abel]

@Climhazzard; Your post makes sense. It's basically what i said earlier . Trying whatever class as a first game test, getting the few first companions, all this helps learning the basics. And once you've learnt enough to get the gist of things, it's time to ditch your first playthrough (once you are, let's say, lvl 6 or 8 ) to start over for good.

 

I will add (i like shields, sorry ) that if it's true that heavier shields lower accuracy (small shield -0 ACC, medium shield -4 ACC, tower shield -8 ACC), the weapon+shield style increases dramatically both deflection AND reflexes (since the deflection bonus of the shield is added to reflexes defense). As an example, a medium, exceptionnal shield grants +26 deflection, +26 reflex, -4 accuracy. If i'm mistaken in the numbers (i'm not this much into numbers), please, anyone, correct me .

 

EDIT: Han! Medium shield: (12) + exceptionnal quality (8 ) + weapon/shield style (6) = 26! Thx mister wiki.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Abel

[Slack83er]

Abel, I see your point, but I don't wanna spoil me the game until 8th level and then restart over. You can see from the start if a certain class is appealing to your playstyle... I don't like -let's say- chanting... and I see it right from the start... as I said... it's a matter of tastes..

[Slack83er]

Ben, when you log... What do you think of what Boeroer said? 2 Hammers and Arquebus? Maybe not Orlan... Dwarf maybe...?

[Climhazzard]

@Climhazzard; Your post makes sense. It's basically what i said earlier . Trying whatever class as a first game test, getting the few first companions, all this helps learning the basics. And once you've learnt enough to get the gist of things, it's time to ditch your first playthrough (once you are, let's say, lvl 6 or 8 ) to start over for good.

 

I will add (i like shields, sorry ) that if it's true that heavier shields lower accuracy (small shield -0 ACC, medium shield -4 ACC, tower shield -8 ACC), the weapon+shield style increases dramatically both deflection AND reflexes (since the deflection bonus of the shield is added to reflexes defense). As an example, a medium, exceptionnal shield grants +26 deflection, +26 reflex, -4 accuracy. If i'm mistaken in the numbers (i'm not this much into numbers), please, anyone, correct me .

 

EDIT: Han! Medium shield: (12) + exceptionnal quality (8 ) + weapon/shield style (6) = 26! Thx mister wiki.

 

 

Yeah, shields are good, great even.  My point was just that these items will make a character tankier but do less damage.  General Pillars of Eternity knowledge that is different than previous similar games, such as Icewind Dale or Baldur's Gate.  In those games you would always wear the heaviest armor, in this game the decision is more complex.  If you came into this game with preconceptions from similar games, you might make wrong decisions, that's why it's important to play this game to learn about it.

 

@Slack83er  The story does not advance much from the prologue to the beginning of act 2, after that it starts to pick up speed.  I'm just telling you this so you know.  If you ignore the main story a bit after you finish Caed Nua, doing side quests around Gilded Vale or Defiance bay, you can quickly reach level 6 without spoiling it much.  That might give you a better feel for the game and it's classes.  Well, when I first started this game I remade my monk half a dozen times before I was happy, so I'm not really one to talk.