Tank barbarians seem pretty disgusting

[Kaylon]

This barb really struggles to kill a single guy, but he can kill easily 10 of them - that's a little ironic, no?  The monk would have a much harder time because they will use healing spells and you can't afford to trade blows with them for very long... 

[Jojobobo]

This barb really struggles to kill a single guy, but he can kill easily 10 of them - that's a little ironic, no?  The monk would have a much harder time because they will use healing spells and you can't afford to trade blows with them for very long... 

That's still better than any other class solo, as unless you're kiting many have trouble with CC (Fighters in particular) - and so you have to sit there tanking and grinding them down, which is tedious. Barbs are much better, even with HoF, at whittling down a group to one or two guys very quickly. Plus the fact most barbarians are spec-ed for offence, so while they're not as good as a Fighter on one guy they're far from bad.

 

Concerning HoF - it's seems to me like they should have just kept HoF 1 per rest, or increased the per rests (to 2 or 3 - at least not allowing it to be insanely spammable) or had it released at an earlier level (so it's 1 per rest, but you get it early so you get more usage out of it). That would have at least discouraged people obliterating everything in sight every encounter - and as you used it on Magran's Faithful 1 per rest means you use it on the important encounters and not just all the time.

 

I guess hopefully Tyranny or PoE2 will have improved class balance.

[Boeroer]

2 per rest would be even more powerful against those tough enemies than 1 per encounter (1/rest is really lame). I think one per encounter is OK, but I would have used a Primary Attack instead of a Full Attack. That would favor two handed weapons and would make HoF a bit less powerful. Dual sabres with Vulnerable Attack and stuff is just crazy. But also awesome. Remember all that talk that barbs are inferior and can't do anything? Try Magran's Faithful with a rogue.

[Sfzrx]

that's some legit damage by kaylon's barb, reminds me of minor blights + blast combo, except this version has larger aoe and higher damage.

[Jojobobo]

2 per rest would be even more powerful against those tough enemies than 1 per encounter (1/rest is really lame). I think one per encounter is OK, but I would have used a Primary Attack instead of a Full Attack. That would favor two handed weapons and would make HoF a bit less powerful. Dual sabres with Vulnerable Attack and stuff is just crazy. But also awesome. Remember all that talk that barbs are inferior and can't do anything? Try Magran's Faithful with a rogue.

Primary attack is a decent suggestion, and you're right about 2 per rest meaning 2 per difficult encounter. I've shelved my solo Barbarian build for the time being, but while I did play it I was finding it incredibly easy compare to other builds. As soon as you get Blood Thirst status-locking, even with Tall Grass, becomes a bit of a thing in Act 2. Besides Tall Grass, being as exceptional two-hander, hits pretty damn hard.

 

Honestly I think Carnage could be taken down to -15 or -20 accuracy, or it should be x0.5 damage. I was finding that sometimes on that Barb build I was hitting enemies by Carnage harder than I was hitting my primary target when they were the same type of enemy, which is a little silly on the whole. I've shelved the DPS build for the time being - though the DPS CC interrupter isn't anything new I thought my massive healing slant may make it worthwhile, but obviously it's not a game-changer in terms of mechanics. Maybe I'll go back to my tank build if the bug has been sorted, with fresh eyes - it's maybe a little more interesting for me than straight up murderating everything level 13 with DPS builds.

 

Even without the 3.03 buff, I think they were an extremely strong class. I never realised because I thought low concentration was a nightmare solo, but it really isn't (Wichts for example, though they interrupt you like hell, if you get one hit in with Tall Grass - which you always do - 5 of them will be dead. Boeroer shines the light as always on these facts). Plus the fact Savage Defiance heals are immense, and if you pair it with Veteran's Recovery (which I strongly recommend taking level 2 going solo - or possibly in general), you have an horrendous amount of endurance recovery which easily makes up for your low deflection. Encounters I've found tricky with other classes on solo have been massively easy with my solo Barb.

 

Literally take a Barb on your team right now!

[Kaylon]

For me HoF is fine like it is - my video makes it seem overpowered, but to achieve that result it took lots of testing and planning...

 

PS. If I would have to redo my build I would take Bloodlust instead of Blood Thirst and Two Weapon Style instead of Gallant's Focus - combined with Frenzy it allows to be at nearly 0% recovery for more than a single hit. Barbaric Blow could also be replaced by Aprentice's Sneak Attack - once the enemies are clustered together you can use a Scroll of Paralysis before jumping in the middle for even more fun. 

[Boeroer]

Actually Bloodlust and Blood Thirst work nicely together, also for casting scrolls for example. Of course Blood Thirst doesn't do as much for you anymore for your weapons' attack speed when you have durgan steel and are dual wielding, but it still makes spamming dps scrolls in tough encounters possible.

[dambros]

I was pretty much set pn going for a lash monk next on my future playhtrough but this discussion has been really making me wish to create a barbarian. Casters seem boring to me in this game, I guess it is because of limited resources.

 

Jojobobo makes it sound like barb early game (which is usually a pita when soloing) is awesome/fast.

Edited July 23, 2016 by dambros

[Jojobobo]

For me HoF is fine like it is - my video makes it seem overpowered, but to achieve that result it took lots of testing and planning...

So you didn't find it OP (over-powered, I think I'm adapting too much lingo of pokemon forums, unfortunately) against trash mobs and not-so-trash-mobs per encounter? I never got round to testing that far, but I found Barb attacks meaty in any case. I'm happy to take your word as gospel, you've clearly tested play in all kinds of ways, but still I'm curious to hear the greater effects of what I found was OP with lesser effects aren't still OP?

 

Actually Bloodlust and Blood Thirst work nicely together, also for casting scrolls for example. Of course Blood Thirst doesn't do as much for you anymore for your weapons' attack speed when you have durgan steel and are dual wielding, but it still makes spamming dps scrolls in tough encounters possible.

You should do a write-up of that ranged 0-recovery Barb, it would be cool - I was trying to find a shades emoji but I lost interest You got the wink nevertheless.

 

The point is, I'm sure the interested community is indebted to both of your efforts, keep on trucking.

[Raven Darkholme]

I was pretty much set pn going for a lash monk next on my future playhtrough but this discussion has been really making me wish to create a barbarian. Casters seem boring to me in this game, I guess it is because of limited resources.

 

Jojobobo makes it sound like barb early game (which is usually a pita when soloing) is awesome/fast.

Oh

Ciphers and wiz's are a lot of fun.^^

[dambros]

 

I was pretty much set pn going for a lash monk next on my future playhtrough but this discussion has been really making me wish to create a barbarian. Casters seem boring to me in this game, I guess it is because of limited resources.

Jojobobo makes it sound like barb early game (which is usually a pita when soloing) is awesome/fast.

 

Oh

Ciphers and wiz's are a lot of fun.^^

I watched your short wiz playthrough and it starts really rough. I guess later on it should rock with so many spells. There aren't many info around about solo casters as well

[Raven Darkholme]

 

 

I was pretty much set pn going for a lash monk next on my future playhtrough but this discussion has been really making me wish to create a barbarian. Casters seem boring to me in this game, I guess it is because of limited resources.

Jojobobo makes it sound like barb early game (which is usually a pita when soloing) is awesome/fast.

Oh

Ciphers and wiz's are a lot of fun.^^

I watched your short wiz playthrough and it starts really rough. I guess later on it should rock with so many spells. There aren't many info around about solo casters as well

 

Well Casters take more damage but they also deal more.

I had a lot of fun with wiz compared to cipher it's definitely an easier start and cipher was my first solo before paladins.^^

[Boeroer]

Concelhaut's Parasitic Staff helps a lot in the early game. Who else can have an exceptional reach weapon which has very high base damage and drains endurance that early in the game? I would love to have that on a barb.

Or take Chillfog: one of the nicest spells in the game - and it's lvl 1. 

 

Cipher's Whisper of Treason is also very nice at lvl 1. Enemies fighting against each other is very valuable.

 

A good thing to do in the early game is to take Aspirant's Mark and Presidigitator's Missiles as soon as possible (if you want to play caster-style). You will have two baby Spell Masteries plus your usual spells. Later on you can retrain if you feel they're becoming too weak, you have better alternatives or want to take other talents more desperately.

[Raven Darkholme]

Concelhaut's Parasitic Staff helps a lot in the early game. Who else can have an exceptional reach weapon which has very high base damage and drains endurance that early in the game? I would love to have that on a barb.

 

Or take Chillfog: one of the nicest spells in the game - and it's lvl 1. 

 

Cipher's Whisper of Treason is also very nice at lvl 1. Enemies fighting against each other is very valuable.

 

A good thing to do in the early game is to take Aspirant's Mark and Presidigitator's Missiles as soon as possible (if you want to play caster-style). You will have two baby Spell Masteries plus your usual spells. Later on you can retrain if you feel they're becoming too weak, you have better alternatives or want to take other talents more desperately.

Yeah the staff is a lot of fun.

[MasterCipher]

Ciphers are easier early on but mid to late game wizards are higher on the power curve and very high impact spells you can chain cast in an encounter without having to build focus. There's a Steam achievement but no actual mechanic limiting how often you return to stronghold/inn/camp. Can't say I've found a need to abuse that in group play since blast talent builds are so good (ranged carnage on steroids when you cast blights), but it's there if you're concerned about per/rest  Also, +10% spell damage gloves are significant for wizards (more so than the melee version for melee builds), but they don't apply to ciphers because their abilities don't count as spells. Lastly, you can simultaneously wear a +10% ranged damage neck for blast.

[Boeroer]

Are you sure that blast counts as ranged damage? Because Penetrating Shots and even Ryona's Vembraces don't work with blast, only with the initial shot on the targeted foe. Or let's say it didn't work when I last checked (pre 3.0 or so). So I assumed that the Archer's Gloves or the Cloak of the Frozen Hunt does the same (buffing the shot, but not the blast).

 

In a post from BAdler somewhere (long time ago) I read that "spell" also means invocations and cipher powers. But maybe he was wrong and it was only intended, but not realised that way.

[Raven Darkholme]

Ciphers are easier early on but mid to late game wizards are higher on the power curve and very high impact spells you can chain cast in an encounter without having to build focus. There's a Steam achievement but no actual mechanic limiting how often you return to stronghold/inn/camp. Can't say I've found a need to abuse that in group play since blast talent builds are so good (ranged carnage on steroids when you cast blights), but it's there if you're concerned about per/rest  Also, +10% spell damage gloves are significant for wizards (more so than the melee version for melee builds), but they don't apply to ciphers because their abilities don't count as spells. Lastly, you can simultaneously wear a +10% ranged damage neck for blast.

That's interesting I found wizard's defenses vastly superior to ciphers easrly game.^^

[rheingold]

Hmm. I certainly don't think Hof 1/encounter is unbalanced. It seems right at the moment.... I mean when you look at what other classes like mages, priests and Druids can do it is most definitely not overpowered. Seems like barbs are pretty good now, which is awesome for me... Haven't played seriously in a while but hoping to start soon with a barb main.

[Dr <3]

I too find hof 1/encounter ok. Also because you have to position carefully and take some risks to use it in the full potential. Would embrace boeroer suggestion about downgrade the full in a normal attack and upgrade 2h talent from +15% to +30% dmg, or alternatively mantain +15% dmg and add also +15% speed.

[dambros]

There is a video on youtube of a guy blasting upscaled Magran Faithfull with a priest, so I guess wizards can probably do that fight the "manly way" as well.

 

I am gonna give wiz a try and see how they fare early.

[Dr <3]

Wiz is super strong from the beginning and exponentially with the progression. You just have to rest a bit more in the beginning. Get arcane veil asap. A wizard can be so manly that he can destroy some bounties with his own lance ( citazel) + martial power+ daom+ other buffs.

One of the most fun to play solo ( other are monk, Chanter, druid, Priest at High lvls)

[dambros]

Wiz is super strong from the beginning and exponentially with the progression. You just have to rest a bit more in the beginning. Get arcane veil asap. A wizard can be so manly that he can destroy some bounties with his own lance ( citazel) + martial power+ daom+ other buffs.

One of the most fun to play solo ( other are monk, Chanter, druid, Priest at High lvls)

I am definitly trying it out. Monks do seem fun as well and I guess they make great solo chars because the intense micro manage!ent rrquired isn't a problem when you are solo.

[Jojobobo]

With regards to Ciphers, I keep wondering without kiting how they can be done solo. It seems to me they're too fragile to go DPS, yet trying to go tanky will mean it takes an appreciable time to build focus.

 

It's a conundrum for sure, I do at some point want to build a solo Cipher as I've always enjoyed mind control builds - but how to do that without trivial kiting seems a little hard to work out. I'm playing a different build currently, I'll dedicate a bit more thought to it after that's done.

[Boeroer]

When retaliation still gave you focus it was a great class for tanky soloing (see the Backlash Beldam build). Sice then I didn't try it out. But the mind control alone is great. Also, when soloing a lot of micro isn't a problem - so a 4-weapon-slot island aumaua with arquebus and quick switch could generate a lot of focus at the start of the fight (after initial CC) in no time and then go tank mode while casting. Maybe this would reduce kiting.   

[Raven Darkholme]

Going tanky is best for cipher even without retaliation focus.

I never beat the adra dragon back when I played cipher but it was my first solo and I was completely clueless and Thaos gave me a run for my money alreadey.^^