Nature Barbarian

[Graschwar]

Hi,

 

I wanna say thank you guys for taking so much interest in this topic and creating a lively discussion - helps me a lot.

 

Just let me say one thing: I choose the barb for some roleplay reasons. I wanted a char with high INT/MIG, low DEX and some Damage (therefore no low DEX/Per Paladin), and there were - as i saw it - only to options since the nature godlike is not debatable:

 

Barb and Mage

 

Since the Mage has low Endurance, the Barb really is the only choice for me.

 

 

So what im still unsure about is the weapon choice: ATM I leaning towards knight and Ruffian:

 

Knight:

 

+ seems to have the best draining weapons (Edge of Reason)

+ early sword is rly good to

 

+/- Morningstars have the highest interupt chance but actually I didnt want to go for Twohanders because of my low DEX

 

- no fast weapons

- no DR-bypassing weapons

 

Ruffian:

 

+ fast weapons with DR-bypassing

+ Sabres are strong and look really cool ^^

+ Blunderbuss and pistol as fight initiators

 

- I have seen no superb sabres

 

 

As always your thoughts are more than welcome

[Boeroer]

^^^^^

 

Fair enough. I appreciate your stance there.

 

But if you roll a barb your still going to go down quite quickly if your surrounded by enemies while you distribute damage reduction negated damage via damage reduced carnage and for the other reasons I have stated and this is a scenario that is not pvp.

At the beginning of the game this is absolutely true. He can't hit sh*t and will go down quickly if you don't put him in the thickest armor and give him recovery or a priest bodyguard - or give him a reach weapon.

 

But as I said this gets better and better with every level because the impact of starting values like ACC and Deflection decreases (because each level adds more accuracy and deflection than this "little" difference in starting accuracy and deflection), along with the impact of high DR (the DR:endurance ratio drops with every level - especially quickly for barbs and monks) while the impact of high CON increases enormously.

 

With barbs the "curve of awesomeness" starts really low but rises expoentially (or the "curve of crappyness" drops exponentially, as you like ) while the rogues curve starts at a higher level but rises more slowly (but makes some big steps - for example when he gets Deathblows). By the way I made those terms up - there is no official curve of awesomeness - although now that I think of it there should be.

 

 

 

 

I'm not saying you can't roll a barb and still beat the game it will just be far easier with any other melee character 

For me that's not true but I guess it depends how you play the game and if you're solo or not and so on. And how you define "easy". For me (and maybe only me) this statement would be true if you replace barb with fighter - or a conventional rogue (I mean melee only). Those two will start off way easier than a barb but during the game their performance gets more and more tedious for me because you have to kill every enemy individually. I mean not so tedious that it's bad - just more tedious than a barb, and less fun. It's so satisfying to stun whole groups with a barb - or to trigger the destroy vessel enchantment of the Redeemer with every swing while being surrounded by constructs.

 

But I also think such things change with time. At the beginning I liked rogues, especially with the usual tank+glasscannons setup - and I hated paladins and especially monks. Can't say why. Now I absolutely love monks and like paladins a lot.   

 

By the way, dear thread opener Graschwar: a combination of Godasthunyr and Badgradr's Barricade is equally aweseome for barbs and rogues. Stun them and then proc the Thrust of Tattered Veils while having good deflection and reflexes is nice. The barb triggers the Thrust in an AoE quite often and the rogue can apply Deathblows. Things get really messy with >5 foes in reach + Stun + Thrust of Tattered Veils + Heart of Fury or Vengeful Defeat. I first thought my headphones got roasted... Unlabored Blade with that shield and HoF/Vengeful Defeat is also very nice if you have party members who can stun/prone for you. But that shield causes instant eye cancer when you give it to a Nature Godlike, so... Wodewys fits nicely. It's an axe that procs Nature's Mark (-10 deflection and reflex in an AoE). You can pair later with We Toki, an axe that causes prone on crit. First proc Nature's Mark and then prone them more easily while doing +50% crit damage (axes are all annihilating). Looks great on a Nature Godlike. THose you get pretty late, that's the downside. THere's also a superb axe that has draining, Edge of Reason - also great, also late. Another great option for a barb would be Tall Grass, a pike that you can buy relatively early - has prone on crit as well. It's green and it has a vegetarian name - it cries out for a Nature Godlike. But of course it's a two handed weapon and may not be what you're looking for.

[Boeroer]

- no fast weapons

- no DR-bypassing weapons

There are two speed enchanted weapons in the Knight's Weapon Focus: Rimecutter (axe - can be bought from Azurro) and The Last Blade of the White Forge (sword - Burial Isle - late game) - But I guess you mean fast like daggers and stilettos are fast, not enchantments. Those weapons have low base damage and therefore are not too good with carnage.

There's one sword which has rending (3 DR bypass): Cat's Claw (Galawain's Maw, Twin Elms - late game)

 

 

 

- I have seen no superb sabres

 

True - you have to enchant them yourself to superb if you need that. There are also no sabres with on-hit or on-crit effects. However, the high base damage is good for your carnage. As Kingsman pointed out, the reduced damage of carnage can have difficulties to overcome DR - so a higher base damage is better. You should also consider Vulnerable Attack. It slows you down but gives all of your carnage hits a +5 damage bonus - so to speak.

 

Bittercut will look really nice on a Nature Godlike and the two damage types are also nice. Plus: with Srpit of Decay you can boost the sabre's damage by +20% - also good to counter the lower carnage damage. With high MIG (+24% and more), Savage Attack (+20%), One Stands Alone (+20%), Spirit of Decay (+20%) and maybe Blooded (+25%) your malus for carnage (-34%) will be more than neglected. They will do +75% damage - like a rogue with 18 MIG and Sneak Attack (without further dmg mods). So not too bad I think. Takes some levels though. Later on you could even duplicate that sabre so that Spirit of Decay really pays off.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Boeroer

[Dr <3]

I'm toying around with a barb and really can't decide what is better: Godasthunyr + bittercut/ spelltongue/ clanillah/ a second Godasthunyr/ edge of reason/ dragon maw shield/ Badgradr's Barricade shield

I'm puzzled

[Boeroer]

Hehe - yes, too many choices. Back in the days, when disorienting stacked, dual Vile Loner's Lance would have been one of the best choices (not in terms of style). I once showed that you can reduce most bounty groups to 0 deflection with that in an AoE via Frenzy + carnage... besides causing massive interrupts. Now there are a lot of great choices. Spellongue + Unlabored Blade is also nice. Or dual Spelltongue (looks stupid though). One of the best setups may be Unlabored + Dragon's Maw. Great AoE damage But that comes so late that I wouldn't want to make up a special build for that.

[Kingsman]

I'm not saying you can beat the game with a barb.

 

What I am saying is a fighter, paladin, rogue, wizard, druid, cipher, ranger and a priest (minor avatar) would beat a barbarian in pvp combat and would also be better vs groups.

 

This is all very plainly clear.

[limaxophobiacq]

What I am saying is a fighter, paladin, rogue, wizard, druid, cipher, ranger and a priest (minor avatar) would beat a barbarian in pvp combat and would also be better vs groups.

 

Well PvP doesn't exist, so it's pretty irrelevant. As for groups a dual-wield barb with Heart of Fury + One Stands Alone is just devastating in 3.03 now that HoF is per-encounter and OSA triggers just from being near enemies, even with just 4 enemies in carnage radius thats up to 8 attacks + 24 carnage attacks all at +45% damage in one click available every fight. Against groups of enemies no martial character can match that burst DPS or the CC potential if you use spell-trigger weapons.

 

Now will casters using per-rest AoE spells in the end still be more effective with less risk? Yeah. Casters are pretty ridiculous though. Using any martial characters after level 9 or so is mostly about style and not wanting to rest too much.

 

 

The effectiveness of carnage is even greater reduced on POTD where enemies have higher damage reduction and of course carnage is made at reduced damage already.

 

PotD does not increase enemy DR, looking at beastiary notes on PotD vs. hard and the difference is +15 to Accuracy and Defenses and +25% health. 

Edited July 9, 2016 by limaxophobiacq

[rheingold]

A rogue will take out a barb in pvp? Really?

I should hope so, there would be something radically wrong if that was not the case. The entire point of a rogue is single target dps, just as the entire point of a barb is aoe damage. They are specifically designed at opposite ends of the spectrum. Rogues and barbs are good at what they where designed for, they don't work if you make them try and do the others job. May as well complain that rogues are terrible because they can't deal with mobs....

[Boeroer]

What I am saying is a fighter, paladin, rogue, wizard, druid, cipher, ranger and a priest (minor avatar) would beat a barbarian in pvp combat and would also be better vs groups.

 

This is all very plainly clear.

With all respect, but how is that clear? It's just your opinion. I have very different experiences for some of the classes you named above:

 

PVP aside (I think we agree here), how could a melee fighter, rogue (without spell use), ranger or even paladin (below lvl 13) be better vs groups (priest using spells is certainly great against groups, but certainly not when using melee attacks only - even with great buffs)? A fighter doesn't even do significantly more damage to the initial single target than a barb (if the barb is fighting more than one enemy). The fighter has more special attacks though, but how could he possibly be better against groups? He's great at locking down positions, refuse to die, doing a little bit CC and taking down tough enemies - and that's it in my opinion.

 

A paladin is good at doing burst damage - but against mobs that's just not enough. Taking out casters or other squishy but harmful enemies he can do, but against mobs he's just a low dps guy with great support abilities and good defenses. At level 13 he becomes a bane of all melee mobs, but until then I wouldn't call him that.

 

A melee rogue can never be as good at taking out groups because he simply deals less damage in a given time and can not disable whole groups at once. He just can't walk into a group of enemies and attack them all while knockig them prone or just interrupt them. He will get pummeled to death quickly. He would have to run around a lot, retreat if he gets targeted by more than one or two foes and so on. A melee rogue is just a pain in the back when he has to deal with a lot of enemies. The barb can just stand there and do swing after swing with the proper equipment. 

 

A melee ranger... I think I don't have to elaborate on this. I think he can do even more single target damage than the common melee rogue with the proper equipment (Drawn in Spring + Predator's Sense and other pet stuff, max flanking dmg bonus and so on). But against groups? I can't see how he can be better than a barb.

Even a ranged ranger is only good against groups if he has Stormcaller or uses Powder Burns (which is not as powerful as one might think).

 

While trying out hundrets of builds it was seldomly a barb who had problems soloing the hefty bounties like Nalrend an the like. Actually barbs (just like monks) of higher levels were pretty good at it if not build too squishy. Casters, ciphers and chanters were even better most of the time. The casters because they can just spam every spell they have (that's a ton at higher levels) and then rest, the cipher because he can spam cheap mind control spells all the time and give the enemies bait while hitting them, the chanter because he can combine great defenses with a devastating AoE offense, be it chant or invocation. But fighters, rogues and rangers always had problems with that (without using the usual tricks like kiting, splitting or using a ton of consumables or using a lot of spell binding items). Even a paladin's Sacred Immolation might be not enough to kill a big bunch of upscaled ogres.

I don't want to say that I know best (because at least MaxQuest and Kaylon always know better  - and I don't mean that in an ironical or sarcastical way), but my experience (which is more than 2.5K hours of gameplay, most of that testing builds with all the classes) isn't totally useless either I guess. 

Edited July 9, 2016 by Boeroer

[Jojobobo]

I think, after 3.03, I'm really looking forward to playing a Barb. With the above average Intelligence and the (soon to be) zero recovery Frightening/Terrifying Shouts/Yells, in conjunction with Speaker to the Reckless and their high Int because of Carnage - you're almost looking at a base 25 deflection class. I like solo, so in playing a Barb I'm currently considering not even taking Frenzy because of the Deflection debuff (please don't hang me), but I think their natural relative +deflection benefits will do the job if I want to go tanky.

 

Then you factor in their monstrous endurance and health, and some natural healing capabilities - I think on the whole they're an extremely competent class in the new patch. I think they'll be my priority when it hits, I was originally hoping to work a retaliate Rogue (which was working 3.02) buuutt with their new defensive capabilities which my original build did not have space for yet would definitely want and with Boeroer's Monkserlasher build which is a veritable Retaliation prince, I want to put a lot of thought into it to it before rounding it off.

 

But the Barb on the other hand, after my current fighter, I'm expecting to be exceptionally easy - and it's not like my current Fighter feels like a hard mode solo PotD.

[KDubya]

Actually there is a form of PVP - the Tavern Fight Club

 

You can recruit up a Rogue and a Barbarian and have them fight it out.

 

My thought is that due to a Rogue's low deflection and low health pool a Barbarian would win due to DR and health tanking unless the Rogue was able to chain stun and keep the barbarian out of action.

 

A Monk will whip them both

[Kingsman]

None off you have still not addressed the facts I raised. Please just refer to those facts and reply back to those facts only.

 

I'm getting sick of repeating myself.

[Boeroer]

I guess because none of us knows exactly which points you made are facts in your opinion. Some of your statements I already adressed or I even agreed to them.

 

Would you mind to repeat the things you think are facts one last time and sum them up - like in a short list or so?

Then I will try to answer every one if I can. And I'm not saying that I will try to falsify each one as hard as I can. I will only say what I think about every point and we can discuss that in a constructive way if we disagree.

[Boeroer]

Actually there is a form of PVP - the Tavern Fight Club

 

You can recruit up a Rogue and a Barbarian and have them fight it out.

 

My thought is that due to a Rogue's low deflection and low health pool a Barbarian would win due to DR and health tanking unless the Rogue was able to chain stun and keep the barbarian out of action.

 

A Monk will whip them both

Monk maybe. Rooting Pain can be a pain in the back for a rogue - and I don't think a barb is a match for a monk in 1:1 situations anyways. But rogues have the big advantage of the first strike - be it with Shadowing Beyond or a ranged weapon that causes a massive debuff like Sap or Blinding Strike. I guess if everything is allowed and both are build properly then the rogue will win most 1:1 fights against a barb - and maybe also against the monk. It's all about the alpha strike. Ranged Sap and then stunlock with dual weapons which have on-crit-effects will be very deadly. If you would outrule disables like stun, prone and weapons which do this - or if you use scrolls against those afflictions it might look different. I guess it's also very depended who announces his build first so that the other can answer it with a specially tailored build. You would have to use "blind building" and so on to make it fair.

 

Maybe we should set something up! Sounds fun. :D

 

This discussion inspired me to do a barb solo run on PoTD by the way. I want to do every encounter in the game. I did all the Gilded Vale related quests and all fights except Temple of Eothas and Raedric's Castle. I'm in the Temple now at char lvl 4 (or 5? Can't remember). So far I had no bigger problems. Sporelings and Xaurip Skirmishers were a bit hard though without "mild cheese" (splitting, kiting, lots of consumables). Atm I'm using dual fine sabres with 0 recovery - and 2 DEX . Maybe I will retrain once I get a weapon with on-crit-effect like The Hours of St. Rumbalt. Disabling, Annihilation and Blood Thirst sounds like a good combination to me. Let's see...

Edited July 10, 2016 by Boeroer

[Dr <3]

I'm soling a barb in potd right now, max str &int, 10 to other stats. maybe max int is a bit overkill and i should have pick some points more in per, but i like anyway. Up to now i rushed act 1 for city, have fun time with march steel dagger+ sword daneys, rushed act 3 at lvl 8 for clanillah stunning + Godansthunyr ( you can steal it without kill the dragon) and retrained for change weapon focus ruffian for +4 accuracy aura. Now i will do some endless path and white march. Doing fine. Good luck for your approch with the hours of s. Rumbald, i tryed it but with my low acc was very difficult to obtain frequent crits, but i see how your plan can work.

 

Edit: and with full plate, + 2 armor from knights talent, hard skin barbarian talent and blunting belt your dr are awesome

Edited July 10, 2016 by Dr <3

[Kingsman]

 

Actually there is a form of PVP - the Tavern Fight Club

 

You can recruit up a Rogue and a Barbarian and have them fight it out.

 

My thought is that due to a Rogue's low deflection and low health pool a Barbarian would win due to DR and health tanking unless the Rogue was able to chain stun and keep the barbarian out of action.

 

A Monk will whip them both

 

Monk maybe. Rooting Pain can be a pain in the back for a rogue - and I don't think a barb is a match for a monk in 1:1 situations anyways. But rogues have the big advantage of the first strike - be it with Shadowing Beyond or a ranged weapon that causes a massive debuff like Sap or Blinding Strike. I guess if everything is allowed and both are build properly then the rogue will win most 1:1 fights against a barb - and maybe also against the monk. It's all about the alpha strike. Ranged Sap and then stunlock with dual weapons which have on-crit-effects will be very deadly. If you would outrule disables like stun, prone and weapons which do this - or if you use scrolls against those afflictions it might look different. I guess it's also very depended who announces his build first so that the other can answer it with a specially tailored build. You would have to use "blind building" and so on to make it fair.

 

Maybe we should set something up! Sounds fun. :D

 

This discussion inspired me to do a barb solo run on PoTD by the way. I want to do every encounter in the game. I did all the Gilded Vale related quests and all fights except Temple of Eothas and Raedric's Castle. I'm in the Temple now at char lvl 4 (or 5? Can't remember). So far I had no bigger problems. Sporelings and Xaurip Skirmishers were a bit hard though without "mild cheese" (splitting, kiting, lots of consumables). Atm I'm using dual fine sabres with 0 recovery - and 2 DEX . Maybe I will retrain once I get a weapon with on-crit-effect like The Hours of St. Rumbalt. Disabling, Annihilation and Blood Thirst sounds like a good combination to me. Let's see...

Ok. So everyone with half a brain has acknowledged that a to rogue would beat a barbarian in pvp. I also agree that a monk would beat a barb in pvp. I think a fighter would beat both a rogue and a monk due to the unbending and unbroken talents. Do you agree?

 

The point I am trying to make here is that the barbarian is the weakest melee class. The barbarian has no talents to select at level up that make any real significant difference to how much impact they can have on the game. Barbarians just scale quite slowly as the game progresses and does not gain any powers that are game changing.

 

Ranger gets twin arrows

Fighter gets unbending, unbroken

Rogue usually out damages my entire party combined

Wizard gains super powerful spells

Cipher gets amplified wave, time parasite, mindweb

Druid Relentless storm which is insanely powerful

Priest gets awesome spells including minor avatar which when combined with abydons hammer possibly makes the preist the most powerful class in the game

Paladin gets immolation

 

The only ability I can see that is worth anything that a barbarian gets is carnage which helps in the trash fights but against harder opponents is completely obsolete and your party never struggles on the trash fights so what is the point in this?....and the argument I keep hearing is that the barb can proc stun or prone affects via carnage, man seriously a caster can do that from safety at a distance !!!!!!!!!

 

If the best thing about a barbarian is that he can basically do exactly what the slicken spell can do but he has to execute it from zero range and there is only about a 15% chance it will actually work because of the low weapon proc rate then I don't want to use one

Edited July 10, 2016 by Kingsman

[Boeroer]

I have max PER, 17 MIG and 20 CON. 2 DEX and 3 RES. Will see how this works. FIrst thing I did when I came to Gilded Vale was killing the moon godlike backer npc for his plate.

[Boeroer]

Ok. So everyone with half a brain has acknowledged that a to rogue would beat a barbarian in pvp. I also agree that a monk would beat a barb in pvp. I think a fighter would beat both a rogue and a monk due to the unbending and unbroken talents. Do you agree?

No, not really about the fighter, I think he's just too limited to counter all possible builds of rogues or monks, but that's ok.

 

But why that "half brain" statement? It's like you want to be shouted at.

 

But what about the facts?

[Kingsman]

 

Ok. So everyone with half a brain has acknowledged that a to rogue would beat a barbarian in pvp. I also agree that a monk would beat a barb in pvp. I think a fighter would beat both a rogue and a monk due to the unbending and unbroken talents. Do you agree?

No, not really about the fighter, I think he's just too limited to counter all possible builds of rogues or monks, but that's ok.But why that "half brain" statement? It's like you want to be shouted at. ;)But what about the facts?

See my edit above.

 

I personally think a fighter would beat a rogue quite easily due to unbending and unbroken.

[Dr <3]

 

If the best thing about a barbarian is that he can basically do exactly what the slicken spell can do but he has to execute it from zero range and there is only about a 15% chance it will actually work because of the low weapon proc rate then I don't want to use one

The best thing a barb can do is actually *perma* stun/prone all enemies near, thing that a wizard/druid can do too for sure, but just 1-2 per rest and not every encounter

 

Other things barbs excels at ( expecially in solo) :

- having an healing ability on par with unbending+ recovery ( with High int and str and some healing bonus you are unkillable as far stalwart defence is on)

- reach 0 recovery from lvl 2 or a very low recovery also with sword e shield thks to bloodlust and frenzy

- is very sturdy ( comparable to warrior and monk) thks to large health pool, healing, shouts, +2 dr ability

- with heart of fury can insta-kill groups of 5+ mobs ( or severe dmg the most sturdy ones), exactly what warriors, rangers, rogue will have the worst machup

- like other said at the beginning of the game clean a group of wicht or Groups of 5+ mobs is easy with barb and near impossibile with rogue if you don't use kiting, splitting ecc ( that i found very boring overall)

- at High lvls dragon leap is a good tool for escape/positioning ( on par with warrior's charge imho)

 

Of course vs bosses ( dragon mainly ) underperforms if compared with a warrior ( higher survivability), paladin ( higher defeces that make him untouchable), ranger ( confuse bow abuse) or a rogue with scrolls, i'm not sure vs a "normal melee" rogue since you have to tank all the mobs by yourself and the survivability of the rogue is not his best part.

 

Anyway in my experience solo with barb is more fun and easy than solo with rogue,ranger, warrior or pala for example, but that is mainly dependant from my playstile than from a difference in " raw power" between the classes ( i don't like spend 2h for cleaning every encounter with pala and warrior ; i don't like to kite all day with ranger/rogue or skip fights with rogue).

 

In the end the fact that there are soo many different opinion is just a proff that the game is overall well balanced and that personal preferences in playstile matter more than other things.

 

@boeroer: i'm always afraid to go in a middle of a fight with 3 res and low dex because i fear the mass interrupt effect, but let me know how it works for you!

[Kingsman]

 

If the best thing about a barbarian is that he can basically do exactly what the slicken spell can do but he has to execute it from zero range and there is only about a 15% chance it will actually work because of the low weapon proc rate then I don't want to use one

The best thing a barb can do is actually *perma* stun/prone all enemies near, thing that a wizard/druid can do too for sure, but just 1-2 per rest and not every encounter

Other things barbs excels at ( expecially in solo) :

- having an healing ability on par with unbending+ recovery ( with High int and str and some healing bonus you are unkillable as far stalwart defence is on)

- reach 0 recovery from lvl 2 or a very low recovery also with sword e shield thks to bloodlust and frenzy

- is very sturdy ( comparable to warrior and monk) thks to large health pool, healing, shouts, +2 dr ability

- with heart of fury can insta-kill groups of 5+ mobs ( or severe dmg the most sturdy ones), exactly what warriors, rangers, rogue will have the worst machup

- like other said at the beginning of the game clean a group of wicht or Groups of 5+ mobs is easy with barb and near impossibile with rogue if you don't use kiting, splitting ecc ( that i found very boring overall)

- at High lvls dragon leap is a good tool for escape/positioning ( on par with warrior's charge imho)

Of course vs bosses ( dragon mainly ) underperforms if compared with a warrior ( higher survivability), paladin ( higher defeces that make him untouchable), ranger ( confuse bow abuse) or a rogue with scrolls, i'm not sure vs a "normal melee" rogue since you have to tank all the mobs by yourself and the survivability of the rogue is not his best part.

Anyway in my experience solo with barb is more fun and easy than solo with rogue,ranger, warrior or pala for example, but that is mainly dependant from my playstile than from a difference in " raw power" between the classes ( i don't like spend 2h for cleaning every encounter with pala and warrior ; i don't like to kite all day with ranger/rogue or skip fights with rogue).

In the end the fact that there are soo many different opinion is just a proff that the game is overall well balanced and that personal preferences in playstile matter more than other things.

@boeroer: i'm always afraid to go in a middle of a fight with 3 res and low dex because i fear the mass interrupt effect, but let me know how it works for you!

You cannot perma stun groups of enemies. Those weapons proc on 10% on a hit or a crit, not on a graze and not on a miss. I have tried this myself and it works very irregularly.

 

A wizard can actually do it better from range with blast and relevant weapon especially the sceptre that dominates because of its super high accuracy.

[Dr <3]

You cannot perma stun groups of enemies. Those weapons proc on 10% on a hit or a crit, not on a graze and not on a miss. I have tried this myself and it works very irregularly.

 

A wizard can actually do it better from range with blast and relevant weapon especially the sceptre that dominates because of its super high accuracy.

You can. For example Godansthunyr or clanillah stun 100% of time *on crit* (if you pass a fortitude check). After duganization you have a 15% hit to crit conversion, and stunned enemies have -30 to deflecion, so is very likely to have a crit chance in the following attacks. With High int you have a 5 sec stun duration, that is more or less the time for 3 or 4 attack if you have 0 recovery. And this without using merciless gaze potion, spells and so on

 

Edit: ofc a wizard with pale shade rod can do a similar job from range, but we all know how much wizard in particolar and caster in General ar stronger than "non caster" classes

Edited July 10, 2016 by Dr <3

[Kingsman]

I didn't no the hammer stunned 100% of the time on crit. Can others confirm this I am skeptical?

[Dr <3]

Is just how it works, the same happens with hours of Saint rumbald or tall grass for prone ecc. If you crit the enemy have to roll a fortitude check for not become proned/stunned. But works for every crit, not 10% of crits. You can easily try yourself.

 

And threating presence with the sick debuff (-10 fortitude) helps a bit

Edited July 10, 2016 by Dr <3

[rheingold]

I don't know about the hammer but tall grass is super reliable for prone and the reach helps immensely. At high levels it's like having a Mage spam slicken. Only problem is the piercing damage. Regarding the relative strengths and weaknesses of melee classes it's actually difficult to debate mainly because the classes are set up as specialists. For example a paladin is a great tank and support character. But they are pretty useless dps wise. Does that make them a worthless class? Rogues are great for single target dps, they don't do much else. I'd say monk is probably the best all rounder if that's what's needed. Followed by ranger. Every other class melee class just doesn't multi task that well.

 

Though the great thing about pillars is if you want to build a dps paladin you can. It just won't be the most effective character you could build. That goes with all the classes including barb. Regarding them only being useful against trash mobs which are easy to beat anyway, I have found there are many tough fights with a couple of powerful bosses who are surrounded by mobs. Having a barb who can deal effectively with the mobs makes the fights really easy.