Post 3.0: Paladins.....

[Brimsurfer]

 

 

nobody said that you had to like the poe paladin.  many folks in this thread is pointing out that they find the paladin to be efficacious.  you disagree.  fine.  

 

example--

 

Gromnir doesn't get much use from the chanter.  the chanter can be made into a worthy tank and its invocations can be brutally powerful, but it just don't work for us.  if we want multiple chants from our chanter to be active, we actual need two or more chanters in our party.  we don't even want one chanter, so why would we take two? also, while the chanter invocations is useful, we do not like being a hostage to the chant count.  for the majority o' poe battles, we want powers we can use at will... or at least at  the start of a battle. we don't much like chanters, but would be ridiculous for us to claim that they is poorly designed or ineffective.  particular for longer boss fights, a chanter can be a powerful addition... to somebody else's party.

 

dunno what to tell you.  is not as if the folks who see use from the poe paladin is all deluded and you is the sole voice o' reason.  has been more than a couple o' paladin solo potd videos and builds shared on these boards.  even so, nobody is forcing you to play the paladin.  don't play it if you do not wish to.  'course given the vastly different experience o' many other potd players, you is gonna need accept that your experience is hardly a dispositive or conclusive judgement o' the poe paladin for any save yourself. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Hmm....I just wish I could figure out how to make this class effective in comparison to others, I really wanted to play a Paladin, but anyway.... I know what you are saying and I don't disagree with you either.....

 

 

Maybe you need to start by telling us what you think "effective" means for a paladin.  Different people can have different definitions and that creates different expectations.

 

i have already said it.......

[boffmoffet]

KDubya kinda hit the nail on the head I feel like. You want a high resolve build paladin right? 18 might, 15 perception, 15 resolve, keep a shield for the first 5 levels if you want to main tank.  You will have enough resolve to make most resolve checks with one resolve item or rest bonus. 

[Crucis]

 

 

 

nobody said that you had to like the poe paladin.  many folks in this thread is pointing out that they find the paladin to be efficacious.  you disagree.  fine.  

 

example--

 

Gromnir doesn't get much use from the chanter.  the chanter can be made into a worthy tank and its invocations can be brutally powerful, but it just don't work for us.  if we want multiple chants from our chanter to be active, we actual need two or more chanters in our party.  we don't even want one chanter, so why would we take two? also, while the chanter invocations is useful, we do not like being a hostage to the chant count.  for the majority o' poe battles, we want powers we can use at will... or at least at  the start of a battle. we don't much like chanters, but would be ridiculous for us to claim that they is poorly designed or ineffective.  particular for longer boss fights, a chanter can be a powerful addition... to somebody else's party.

 

dunno what to tell you.  is not as if the folks who see use from the poe paladin is all deluded and you is the sole voice o' reason.  has been more than a couple o' paladin solo potd videos and builds shared on these boards.  even so, nobody is forcing you to play the paladin.  don't play it if you do not wish to.  'course given the vastly different experience o' many other potd players, you is gonna need accept that your experience is hardly a dispositive or conclusive judgement o' the poe paladin for any save yourself. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Hmm....I just wish I could figure out how to make this class effective in comparison to others, I really wanted to play a Paladin, but anyway.... I know what you are saying and I don't disagree with you either.....

 

 

Maybe you need to start by telling us what you think "effective" means for a paladin.  Different people can have different definitions and that creates different expectations.

 

i have already said it.......

 

 

I just read through every one of your posts and I didn't see anything that defined what you think "effective" means for a paladin.  So if you "already said it", you said it too obtusely to be noticed.

 

 

To me, an "effective" paladin is someone who holds their own in combat, and is able to use their abilities usefully when needed.  I've had Pallegina in most of my parties, and I have to trust that her Zealous Focus aura is useful, because its effect is kind of below the radar screen.  OTOH, she has other abilities that are more visible, like Reviving Exhortation, Aegis of Loyalty, and Lay on Hands.  All of which are useful and have completely visible effects (I.e. RE awakens an unconscious team mate, AoL turns a charmed team mate back to the home team, and LoH heals the wounded).  None of these 3 abilities are causing direct damage to the enemy, but I find to be things that a paladin can do that greatly assist their team.  Also, RE and LoH cast faster than similar priest spells, which may make a significant difference in battle.

 

 

As I said before, I suspect that your are setting your expectations for paladins far too high.  They're not fighters or monks or barbarians.  They're not really meant to be a high damage producing class, though it's possible for them to do well, if built, equipped, and played well.  They're not meant to do the exact same things as other normal front liner classes do, and expecting them to do so is wrong.

[illathid]

 

I just beat the game on hard with a Shieldbearer paladin. Focused on two handed swords, didn't take any shieldbearer talents, and I had the highest single target, and total damage the entire game with a full party.

 

I am talking about PotD, but no matter the difficulty, still even on Hard how the hell a shieldbearer had the highest single target and total damage against classes like Rogue, Ranger, Cipher, Druid, Wizard etc? Don't think you used the other classes right because its against the current game mechanics I believe....

 

 

Didn't use rogues, rangers, ciphers, or druids really. Party was Me, Pallegina, Eder, Kana, Aloth, and Durance. Pallegina and Eder were pure tanks, Me and Kana were second row melee, Durance and Aloth were buffers and debuffers respectively. Whether I used them "right" or not is immaterial, I used them the way I liked and had no trouble with any part of the game really. I doubt much of anything would change on PotD except fights taking longer and requiring more daily abilities.

[anameforobsidian]

Right now Pallegina is one of my best and most reliable characters on PotD.  She's using the unfortunately bugged St. Waidwen's Redeemer.  And the key for her keeping high DPS is to actually use the flaming sword move.  Ones she gets the pulsing fire move it makes fighting the undead much, much easier.  I only lost one person fighting Raedric II, and that was accidentally on fast mode.  The key to her DPS is this, you don't get DPS if you die.

[Crucis]

Right now Pallegina is one of my best and most reliable characters on PotD.  She's using the unfortunately bugged St. Waidwen's Redeemer.  And the key for her keeping high DPS is to actually use the flaming sword move.  Ones she gets the pulsing fire move it makes fighting the undead much, much easier.  I only lost one person fighting Raedric II, and that was accidentally on fast mode.  The key to her DPS is this, you don't get DPS if you die.

 

Personally, unless you're fighting vessels, I'd put the Redeemer aside and pick another weapon.  In my most recent party, I enchanted the Hours of St Rumbalt greatsword to Superb and had Pallegina use it as her alternative to The Redeemer in battles where there were no vessels present.

[Brimsurfer]

Pallegina is awesome now and her utility is great and her two order specific abilities are quite excellent unlike the Paladin orders that are available to players to play except for may be Kind Wayfarers........I used her with two handed melee weapons, bound Grey Sleeper to her and gave her consecration boots and she totally pulled her own weight and even then some ..............she was a formidable presence on the field and rolled like a boss however I cannot say the same of the Paladin orders available for players to play.........

 

I find Bleak Warrior undesirable to play because there is a head item in the game that does exactly what Black Path does and you don't have to land a killing blow either, it just does it when enemies are in range......

 

Dracozzi seem alright but not sure why Inspiring Liberation doesn't work on them, specially when you consider chanter and priest buffs affect everyone including themselves..

 

Goldpact knights there are several items in the game that does what Bond of Duty does, so whats the point?

 

Shieldbearers, I find it crap that they do not get any bonuses to their shield wielding ability and Sheilding Flame is not so good since it doesn't boost the paladin himself unlike chanters or priests.........

 

Also my biggest disappointment with Paladins is that they are supposed to be a melee class for the most part but they don't have any close quarter combat class talents at all..... I know they are meant to be melee support characters who can take on some damage but nobody attacks them and player Paladins specially the tanky ones are terrible at hitting stuff (on PotD) also. and by the mid game with priest buffs and chanter buffs your party is basically shrugging off most CC attacks launched by enemy so there is really not much to be dispelled either so seriously what's the point of this class? Can Paladins be reduced to Zealous Auras only?

 

I mean I am still trying figure out how to play this class so that it makes a difference.....Priest prayers against special effects like fear, charm, confusion are all fast to average casts and can easily be maintained throughout the whole fight, if one keeps an eye on the timer.......so I don't see much utility in Paladin's abilities.....

 

Yes a Paladin can still outshine other classes only when the player is partial to over play them and under play the rest of the classes well below their potential......at least that's what I have found out so far with my Shieldbearer........

 

PS. I am still sharing my experience, which is going totally against what some of the people are saying and I am not trying to make an statement by any means.....

Edited March 17, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[Brimsurfer]

 

 

I just read through every one of your posts and I didn't see anything that defined what you think "effective" means for a paladin.  So if you "already said it", you said it too obtusely to be noticed.

 

 

 

Stopped caring after reading this........

[atua]

Like a number of others have mentioned already, I think the biggest issues is there's mismatch between what the OP wants/expects out of paladins, and what they're designed to be, which is a melee defensive support class. Paladins can output a respectable amount of damage, but they're never going to do more damage than a proper kitted out rogue, ranger, etc. And while priests are indisputably the best buffers in the game, they're the worst at actual healing. Moonwell (especially the scroll version) is a lot better than Consecrated Ground. Lay on Hands is better than all of the priest's direct heals which are garbage IMO; you can get it from Level 1, it heals for more, and it's twice per encounter. Healing Chain is just gravy on top that confirms paladins as the best healing class in the game. Paladin's revives are better than the priests too. Reviving Exhortation can be obtained as early as level 7, heals for 300 base, and is once per encounter. The priest equivalent heals for 50 base, per rest and you don't get it till level 9. Aegis of Loyalty is great too against some of the most annoying debuffs in the game (charm/confuse/dominate), especially after Sacred Immolation (one tic cancels the effect). Sure you can use the priest's Prayer Against Treachery, but that eats up a valuable Level 6 cast that I'd much rather use on Crowns/Spark/Cleansing Flame, whereas Aegis is a passive. Liberating Exhortation can handle the other annoying debuffs.

 

As for a tanking role, I guess it depends on what you value in a tank (survivability, crowd control, damage, support, etc) and the make up of your party. From your complaints, it sounds like what you really want is an Overbearing Guard fighter tank. I'm playing a PotD PC paladin tank right now, working my way through WM2, and while I miss having no crowd control on the tank, even a fighter or monk tank won't really help against the most annoying mobs in WM, like enemy barbarians or monks who ignore your tank to go after your backline. Their high fortitude saves, esp in PotD, makes knockdown/prones unreliable, so you'd still need some other class to provide a reflex/will based crowd control method on them, and I often find the easiest way to deal with them to be a fast Reinforcing Exhortation on the target + weapon swap to hatchet/shield (giving the target deflection ~100+) and then just having the rest of the DPS focusing them down. On survivability, paladins tanks have only slightly worse deflection than fighters tanks, and worse DR than monk tanks but  DR hits diminishing returns and a paladin's better fort/reflex/will saves is more helpful IMO because later on the only time a tank is in danger of dying is when he's suffering from a debuff like paralyze/petrified, and better saves will help with that.

 

Anyway, I think the class is fine at what it does but it sounds as if you don't enjoy playing it, which is perfectly okay!   It's like how I never liked playing ranger, even after all the buffs because I hate having to micro the pet all the time to get decent damage, since the stupid AI and pathfinding ends up killing it a lot. In my game, my paladin's basically a low maintenance meatshield and healer and his damage is horrible lol. To get the most out of paladin abilities, I had to max might and intelligence, and with resolve requisite for a tank, there's just no points left for good dexterity/perception. Anyway, it gives me time to micro my cipher and priest, whom I play quite offensively. It's funny because PoE priests are just terrible at the two tasks they're traditionally associated with; healing and resurrecting.

Edited March 17, 2016 by atua

[Rosbjerg]

I have a main and Pallegina as the two forward semi tank and damage dealers - on their own they are great, but supported by a druid it's so effective that I don't even need anything else in the party. Meaning I can bring less effective party members along for the story etc, because whatever happens I can always rely on that trio to kill or outlast anything. 

 

My main is using the soulbound 2hander that requires 5 revivials to level, I've had to actively take him down myself in order to achieve it simply because he can take out everything on his own without much supervising.

 

So I think they are incredibly effective. But it's not a mini/max kinda class, they are however great for someone like me how like smaller more consistent bonuses rather than having to micro manage 2-3 casters etc.

[dam]

Do Paladins really worth it? I tried to start a new campaign with a Paladin and this was to be my first time as a Paladin protagonist......

 

But I was really disappointed to find out that anything that a Paladin can do, there is always another class that can do it better.....they can't compete with damage dealers in damage output like rogues, rangers, ciphers...., they can't compete in support role with priests, they can't compete in mob control with wizards or druids and they can't compete in tanking with fighters or monks etc..........

 

People tell me that Paladins are melee support class and kind of jack of all trades and master of none, but I beg to differ...... Priests are the ones who are kind of jack of all trades and they are master of few as well, they can support, they can crowd control, they can also deal decent damage and can have high accuracy with deities boons (higher than Paladins), Priests can pretty much do almost anything that you build them for.........they can even serve as a frontliner as well if built for the purpose, may not be as resilient as a fighter but still can contribute very well at the front lines, if built with proper talents and use appropriate spells.....

 

Anything a Paladin can do a Priest can do better, so I really want to know, what a Paladin is good for? Does it really worth to play Paladin as a protagonist or is he just a side-liner who is outshined in pretty much all meaniful aspects of the game by other classes? 

 

1/ they can't compete with damage dealers in damage output

 

Yeah, one should hope so shouldn't they ?

Ciphers, rogues and rangers are squishy and actually *dedicated* at being damage dealers (although ciphers double up as support/cc).

 

 

2/ priests [...] appropriate spells

 

And that is the key here, isn't it ?

An out-of-spells priest is just a sitting duck, while a paladin gets per-encounter abilities.

 

 

3/ priests can do better

 

Allow me to correct you here, "priests can do better when they have spells available".

 

Following your (misguided) reasoning that spells are unlimited, why in the world would you get a Cipher ?

A Wizard can do it all so much better, cc, debuffs, nukes...

 

This is simply not how it works.

 

 

 

4/ what is a paladin good for ?

 

I'd say he's good as an offtank and a support character, both with exhortations, an aura, and the Healing Chain / Sacred Immolation multi-target heals.

[Crucis]

 

 

 

I just read through every one of your posts and I didn't see anything that defined what you think "effective" means for a paladin.  So if you "already said it", you said it too obtusely to be noticed.

 

 

 

Stopped caring after reading this........

 

 

So, you said that you've already defined what you felt was an "effective paladin".  SO I went back and read all your posts and found not one clear statement, NOT ONE, stating this.  And now because I point this out so you, you "stop caring" what I have to say?   How mature. 

[Crucis]

Pallegina is awesome now and her utility is great and her two order specific abilities are quite excellent unlike the Paladin orders that are available to players to play except for may be Kind Wayfarers........I used her with two handed melee weapons, bound Grey Sleeper to her and gave her consecration boots and she totally pulled her own weight and even then some ..............she was a formidable presence on the field and rolled like a boss however I cannot say the same of the Paladin orders available for players to play.........

 

I find Bleak Warrior undesirable to play because there is a head item in the game that does exactly what Black Path does and you don't have to land a killing blow either, it just does it when enemies are in range......

 

Dracozzi seem alright but not sure why Inspiring Liberation doesn't work on them, specially when you consider chanter and priest buffs affect everyone including themselves..

 

Goldpact knights there are several items in the game that does what Bond of Duty does, so whats the point?

 

Shieldbearers, I find it crap that they do not get any bonuses to their shield wielding ability and Sheilding Flame is not so good since it doesn't boost the paladin himself unlike chanters or priests.........

 

Also my biggest disappointment with Paladins is that they are supposed to be a melee class for the most part but they don't have any close quarter combat class talents at all..... I know they are meant to be melee support characters who can take on some damage but nobody attacks them and player Paladins specially the tanky ones are terrible at hitting stuff (on PotD) also. and by the mid game with priest buffs and chanter buffs your party is basically shrugging off most CC attacks launched by enemy so there is really not much to be dispelled either so seriously what's the point of this class? Can Paladins be reduced to Zealous Auras only?

 

I mean I am still trying figure out how to play this class so that it makes a difference.....Priest prayers against special effects like fear, charm, confusion are all fast to average casts and can easily be maintained throughout the whole fight, if one keeps an eye on the timer.......so I don't see much utility in Paladin's abilities.....

 

Yes a Paladin can still outshine other classes only when the player is partial to over play them and under play the rest of the classes well below their potential......at least that's what I have found out so far with my Shieldbearer........

 

PS. I am still sharing my experience, which is going totally against what some of the people are saying and I am not trying to make an statement by any means.....

 

I've said before, whether here or on other recent pally-related threads that I think that the paladin order talents (for the player usable orders) are rather weak, and IMO aren't really worth taking when compared to generic talents or some non-order related paladin class talents.  I think that generic talents and non-order related paladin talents just bring more value.  But others may disagree, which is fine.  For example, I'd rather pick a weapon style or Superior Deflection or Vulnerable Attack or Arms Bearer over any of the player usable order related talents.  I think that any of those bring more value to the table.

 

Regarding charm, IIRC, priests don't have any spells that will DISPEL an already charmed team mate.  But paladin's do have an ability that does (maybe 2, I'm not certain) do that, i.e. Aegis of Loyalty. 

 

As for paladins not having any "close quarters combat class talents", I won't disagree with you.  I personally don't really care for how PoE paladins were designed and didn't from the moment I got into PoE when it was released.  But that train's left the station, and I have to deal with paladins as they are, not how I wish they were.   They're built to be team leaders, to help and support the team.  Not to be all about themselves.   About the only offensive abilities they have that's all about them is Flames of Devotion and Sworn Enemy.  Defensively, Faith and Conviction and Righteous Soul are abilities that help the paladin himself rather than team mates.  (And note that there are some talents that upgrade existing talents or abilities as well.) 

 

You say above that your pally has trouble hitting stuff (in PotD).  Maybe you should have your priest cast some accuracy enhancing spells.  Or maybe your pally's PER needs some boosting whether by items or spells, and/or respec his stats to boost his base PER.  The thing is though that Paladins are only 5 points behind Fighters in base accuracy before factoring in differences in PER and weapon enchantments and so on.  So it's not like they're really all that bad in this regard, cuz they're not.

 

 

But the more I read your posts and the more posts you write on this, it just seems to me that your expectations of what paladins should be able to do are too high and don't match how they're designed to be able to do.  And it also seems, though I could be wrong, that you are so set on not liking paladins because they don't meet your personal expectations of what they "should" be able to do that you're unwilling to bend and attempt to play and make the most out of what paladins *CAN* do.  If you can't adapt to what paladins ARE and CAN DO, and insist on complaining about how they can't do what you think they "should" be able to do, then perhaps you should consider setting aside the paladin class and not bother playing them, because they're never going to be what YOU think they "should" be.  They are what they are, at least until PoE2 comes out, if and when that ever happens.

[Brimsurfer]

I have a main and Pallegina as the two forward semi tank and damage dealers - on their own they are great, but supported by a druid it's so effective that I don't even need anything else in the party. Meaning I can bring less effective party members along for the story etc, because whatever happens I can always rely on that trio to kill or outlast anything. 

 

My main is using the soulbound 2hander that requires 5 revivials to level, I've had to actively take him down myself in order to achieve it simply because he can take out everything on his own without much supervising.

 

So I think they are incredibly effective. But it's not a mini/max kinda class, they are however great for someone like me how like smaller more consistent bonuses rather than having to micro manage 2-3 casters etc.

what difficulty level is this? and what's order of your main? ...... just trying to figure out why I can't make my main Pally work....Pallegina is great I agree, specially as her order skills are entirely unique and useful.......

[dam]

 

I have a main and Pallegina as the two forward semi tank and damage dealers - on their own they are great, but supported by a druid it's so effective that I don't even need anything else in the party. Meaning I can bring less effective party members along for the story etc, because whatever happens I can always rely on that trio to kill or outlast anything. 

 

My main is using the soulbound 2hander that requires 5 revivials to level, I've had to actively take him down myself in order to achieve it simply because he can take out everything on his own without much supervising.

 

So I think they are incredibly effective. But it's not a mini/max kinda class, they are however great for someone like me how like smaller more consistent bonuses rather than having to micro manage 2-3 casters etc.

what difficulty level is this? and what's order of your main? ...... just trying to figure out why I can't make my main Pally work....Pallegina is great I agree, specially as her order skills are entirely unique and useful.......

 

 

You really need to tell your brethren what you consider "makes [your] main Pally work".

 

Do you want him to maintank ? offtank ? dps ? buff ? debuff... ?

IDK...

 

'cause if you wish for him to output more single target DPS than a specialized monk or rogue, or AOE DPS than a barbarian, I think you're chasing a fleeting dream.

[KDubya]

Another thing to consider is what your team is.

 

I usually go without a priest or any Vancian casters for that matter. Without a Priest a Paladin becomes much more valuable, so much so that I like having both MC Kind Wayfarer and Pellagrina. The team also has Zahua (Juggernaut), Devil (weapon & shield), Kana (tanky two hander with mainly fire lash chant), and Maneha (want to use her, dual wielding Spelltongue and Unlabored Blade). I do best in a phalanx where everyone is tight, mutually supporting, in melee, and in range of each others buffs, chants and auras.

[Brimsurfer]

 

 

 

I've said before, whether here or on other recent pally-related threads that I think that the paladin order talents (for the player usable orders) are rather weak, and IMO aren't really worth taking when compared to generic talents or some non-order related paladin class talents. ..............................................  They are what they are, at least until PoE2 comes out, if and when that ever happens.

 

 

What would be a good attribute spread for a Pally in PotD, IYO and which order would you recommend other than KW?......honestly just trying to figure out, if I rolled it wrong...

 

And my expectations of Paladins are not too high, I just want them to contribute in one way or the other same as the other party members, but at the moment it seems like the only thing my Pally is good for is zealous aura and that's about it and that's not really much considering I could have a Druid or Ranger in his place with all their abilities at my disposal, as I already mentioned before...

 

Btw Priests do have an ability that removes pretty much all conditions can't recall  its name, also charm , dominate and confusion these spells have never really given me much trouble anyway.......and casting Prayer against Treachery right at the start of the battle against enemies who inflict these conditions, takes care of it and by the time when duration is about to run out you can refresh it again if needed, but normally you won't need to refresh it because by that time most of monsters would be dead if not all..... 

[Brimsurfer]

 

 

I have a main and Pallegina as the two forward semi tank and damage dealers - on their own they are great, but supported by a druid it's so effective that I don't even need anything else in the party. Meaning I can bring less effective party members along for the story etc, because whatever happens I can always rely on that trio to kill or outlast anything. 

 

My main is using the soulbound 2hander that requires 5 revivials to level, I've had to actively take him down myself in order to achieve it simply because he can take out everything on his own without much supervising.

 

So I think they are incredibly effective. But it's not a mini/max kinda class, they are however great for someone like me how like smaller more consistent bonuses rather than having to micro manage 2-3 casters etc.

what difficulty level is this? and what's order of your main? ...... just trying to figure out why I can't make my main Pally work....Pallegina is great I agree, specially as her order skills are entirely unique and useful.......

 

...............

'cause if you wish for him to output more single target DPS than a specialized monk or rogue, or AOE DPS than a barbarian, I think you're chasing a fleeting dream.

 

 

When did I ever say that I want him to do single target DPS? I have already said it many times what I want him to do.....scroll up pls....

[boffmoffet]

I have never seen someone make it so difficult to help them. 

Edited March 17, 2016 by boffmoffet

[Crucis]

 

 

 

I've said before, whether here or on other recent pally-related threads that I think that the paladin order talents (for the player usable orders) are rather weak, and IMO aren't really worth taking when compared to generic talents or some non-order related paladin class talents. ..............................................  They (paladins) are what they are, at least until PoE2 comes out, if and when that ever happens.

 

 

What would be a good attribute spread for a Pally in PotD, IYO and which order would you recommend other than KW?......honestly just trying to figure out, if I rolled it wrong...

 

And my expectations of Paladins are not too high, I just want them to contribute in one way or the other same as the other party members, but at the moment it seems like the only thing my Pally is good for is zealous aura and that's about it and that's not really much considering I could have a Druid or Ranger in his place with all their abilities at my disposal, as I already mentioned before...

 

Btw Priests do have an ability that removes pretty much all conditions can't recall  its name, also charm , dominate and confusion these spells have never really given me much trouble anyway.......and casting Prayer against Treachery right at the start of the battle against enemies who inflict these conditions, takes care of it and by the time when duration is about to run out you can refresh it again if needed, but normally you won't need to refresh it because by that time most of monsters would be dead if not all..... 

 

 

Attribute spread, hmmm.  Of course, different people may have different opinions on this, but here's a decent Pally stat build, I'd think.

 

M:16

C: 10

D: 10

P: 14

I: 14

R: 14

 

If I understated the point total, just throw the final point on either Might or Resolve, or wherever else you'd like.  Anyways, this build should give a pally a decent enough stat spread for the necessities.

 

As for other stuff, yes, a priest can cast the Prayer against Treachery.  But remember that very few buffing spells can be cast outside of combat now, so sometimes it can be difficult to get such a spell cast before the enemy has whacked someone on your team.  They always seem to pull the trigger on this stuff more quickly than your party can.  So, having a pally around to clean up the mess is convenient.  Also, even if a priest can do many of these things, it never hurts to have someone else who's able to do them around as well.

 

As for your expectations, thanks for saying more explicitly you'd like.  Yes, you could have a different character.  And while, say, a ranger might have more damage potential than a paladin, the ranger isn't going to be able to Revive anyone, or "fix" a charmed/dominated/confused team mate, or lay on hands to heal a hurt team mate.  The paladin can do things a ranger or a druid can't, just like they can do things that a paladin can't.  And when you have a party, it's all about taking a number of character's skills (i.e. abilities, talents, spells, etc.) and meshing them together and hopefully creating a group whose overall abilities are greater than the mere sum of its parts.

 

Even in the old IE D&D games, paladins were never the "best' at anything.  The point is that they're sort of a jack of many trades class, sort of a class that's part priest, part warrior.  A class of warriors who are better suited to standing in the front lines and yet able to do some of the things that a priest could do.  In fact, a lot of players think that paladins are more effective healers in combat than priests themselves, due to the speed and strength of their Lay on Hands ability.

 

And also remember that just because one might already have a priest in a party, there's nothing wrong with providing that priest some backup in the form of a paladin.  You never know when that backup with be valuable or even critically necessary.

 

 

 

 

 

[Brimsurfer]

Hmm....I am running with Shieldbearer (Not sure why he is called Shieldbearer doesn't have any Shield related talents or abilities)

 

M 14

C 14

D 10

P 10

I 13

R 16 

 

I figured since I will be at front so I would need some Constitution but still my health runs out before Endurance and I barely hit anyone even with accuracy buffs and my fighter is my main tank and monk is more like a resilient destroyer , i dont know WTF is this Paladin he literally can't do crap except for casting his zealous aura....

 

I don't think this attribute spread that I am rolling with is bad, its in accordance with what game told me should be good for a Paladin, it would have worked on any other front line defensive character, my priest has got almost similar attribute spread and he is one of the most important members of my party.......

 

 

 

As for your expectations, thanks for saying more explicitly you'd like.  Yes, you could have a different character.  And while, say, a ranger might have more damage potential than a paladin, the ranger isn't going to be able to Revive anyone, or "fix" a charmed/dominated/confused team mate, or lay on hands to heal a hurt team mate.  The paladin can do things a ranger or a druid can't, just like they can do things that a paladin can't.  And when you have a party, it's all about taking a number of character's skills (i.e. abilities, talents, spells, etc.) and meshing them together and hopefully creating a group whose overall abilities are greater than the mere sum of its parts.

 

Even in the old IE D&D games, paladins were never the "best' at anything.  The point is that they're sort of a jack of many trades class, sort of a class that's part priest, part warrior.  A class of warriors who are better suited to standing in the front lines and yet able to do some of the things that a priest could do.  In fact, a lot of players think that paladins are more effective healers in combat than priests themselves, due to the speed and strength of their Lay on Hands ability.

 

And also remember that just because one might already have a priest in a party, there's nothing wrong with providing that priest some backup in the form of a paladin.  You never know when that backup with be valuable or even critically necessary.

 

 

 

Now we are going back in circles here, I don't want a different character I just want his presence on the battlefield to amount to something, other than just standing around and casting zealous aura........................ and all the things that he is capable of doing, my priest is already doing all those things and then some......

 

And the things you have mentioned here I have already touched upon them previously in this topic so repeating them doesn't help me......and in IE D&D games Paladins were not so useless as they are now, they were divine warriors back then, kind of like 80% Fighter 20% Priest but PoE is different there is no divinity in this game and the idea of PoE Paladins is sort of different from D&D Paladins although to some there might be some similarity.......

 

And the only reason I mentioned that I probably would be better off with a druid or ranger is that since everything this Paladin can do, I have a Priest who is doing it better so what use is this Paladin to my party, in that I was thinking that I would probably be doing better with a Ranger or a Druid as they bring something to the table that I can use.....

 

And Paladins are not jack of all trades, honestly i have found its either priests or chanters but not paladins...........

 

It seems like nothing useful is coming out of this thread, people are just repeating what has been said previously and I am forced to make similar responses......I guess Paladins are what they are in this game and I find them quite underwhelming and that's the long and short of it......

[Brimsurfer]

I have never seen someone make it so difficult to help them. 

 

That's because my experience with this class is going against what I am being told......and I am not very happy about that

[Gromnir]

 

grace rules.  am typical not a shieldbearer, but from a recent potd run you should be able to see that our paladin is formidable.  grace is a hireling, so she don't have optimal faith and convictions. is pre-battle, so no buffs save gear and +3 intellect from the stronghold. no food or scrolls or active spells.

 

for grace we boosted intellect and resolve and went average everything else.  137 deflection is more than enough to snooze our way through most potd battles, but we can use lay on hands on our self to get that to 149 and have and additional 176 endurance to play with.  priest casts crown of the faithful?  our perception, intellect and resolve go through the roof.  as you can see, grace has decent accuracy with battle axes and swords. she hits stuff often enough to hold baddies.

 

most battles has grace starting off by using a reinforcing exhortation on a squishy, or simply hitting somebody with flames of devotion (110 accuracy?) which confers +10 deflection to nearby allies.  depending on the kinda enemy faced, we will then typical use a liberating exhortation opportunity on those party mates most likely to be targeted with a debilitating hostile effect.  once the enemies is softened up a bit by priest/wizard/druid/cipher debuffs, likely we go to immolation, which thanks to our ridiculous intellect covers a sizeable portion o' the battlefield and lasts forever.  we get 3 per rest of hastening exhortation, meaning we can use it once every-other-battle... or thereabouts.  without any priestly or food buffs, hastening for grace lasts 48 seconds, or pretty much an entire battle.  

 

etc.

 

the only thing our fighter-tank has that we genuine wish we had for our paladin-tanks is charge.  'course that would be overkill and would only be situationally useful as we don't wanna out-range our zealous focus.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Crucis]

 

I have never seen someone make it so difficult to help them. 

 

That's because my experience with this class is going against what I am being told......and I am not very happy about that

 

 

Nah, I think that you're just refusing to see what we're telling you.  You're not happy that paladins aren't what you want them to be and you're refusing to see what they *can* do and you're then saying that they stink, when the reality is that they don't.

 

We're trying to help you see paladins for what they are and what they *can* do.  But if you continue to refuse to see what's in front of your eyes, there's nothing we can do to help you.  Sorry.

 

EDIT:  And no wonder you think you can't hit anything with a 10 PER.  You have a pally with plenty of HP due to the 14 CON and plenty of Might with which to do damage (and healing), but a reduced ability to hit things with that low PER.  Your pally would have been better off if you'd flipped the CON and PER scores.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Crucis

[dam]

 

 

 

I have a main and Pallegina as the two forward semi tank and damage dealers - on their own they are great, but supported by a druid it's so effective that I don't even need anything else in the party. Meaning I can bring less effective party members along for the story etc, because whatever happens I can always rely on that trio to kill or outlast anything. 

 

My main is using the soulbound 2hander that requires 5 revivials to level, I've had to actively take him down myself in order to achieve it simply because he can take out everything on his own without much supervising.

 

So I think they are incredibly effective. But it's not a mini/max kinda class, they are however great for someone like me how like smaller more consistent bonuses rather than having to micro manage 2-3 casters etc.

what difficulty level is this? and what's order of your main? ...... just trying to figure out why I can't make my main Pally work....Pallegina is great I agree, specially as her order skills are entirely unique and useful.......

 

...............

'cause if you wish for him to output more single target DPS than a specialized monk or rogue, or AOE DPS than a barbarian, I think you're chasing a fleeting dream.

 

 

When did I ever say that I want him to do single target DPS? I have already said it many times what I want him to do.....scroll up pls....

 

 

 

That was merely an example.

 

You're deliberately being a huge pain in the ass towards people actively trying to help you out with building the character in a way you would like.

 

So, I'm out, enjoy trolling your own thread.