atua

If memory serves, I got a whole lot of dragon meat off Alpine Dragon.

I too, would NOT recommend "expert mode" for a first run play through. Hiding relative defences just makes it harder to learn the meta data you need to make sound tactical decisions in the game. But most annoying IMO, is the no AoE highlighting in "expert mode". It's one thing if spell AoE are consistent throughout the game, but spells in PoE are affected by intellect. The difference in AoE on the same character using the same spell between a starting 18 intellect vs a fully buffed end game character with ~36 intellect is huge.

Where's the Lost Periapt of the Winding Path from?

That Stormcaller build was for people who don't want to respec a companion for either role playing or cost reasons. As you said, Sagani won't have Stormcaller for a decent chunk of the game, so I usually start off with a normal firearms build (which includes penetrating shots), then respec into the final build when I pick up Stormcaller.

I second the Whisper of Treason recommendation. And I'd actually avoid Puppet Master. A dominated target attacks a bit harder than a charmed one, and can be attacked by your party, but generally you should avoid attacking your charm/dominated target until last so in a crowd control sense there's little difference between the two. Whisper's only 1/3 the focus cost (10 vs 30) of Puppetmaster, and a fast cast too, so it's the more efficient option in most cases. For high HP targets, Recall Agony's also very nice. Pain Link's handy in boss fights too. I'm assuming you've already taken Ectopsychic Echo; two of those in operation will kill even ogres pretty fast. Use summons (from items) as targets if you can't get anyone in your party across the other side.

That's exactly what I meant by unrealistic advice, this topic is not about the usefulness of skills according to your imagination. PS. BTW I lost interest by the time I got to middle of your delusional post, didn't read the rest.......you can probably wake up now.... Yes, I must have imagined the extra 10 deflection & 20 Fort/Reflex/Will on my paladin and that my paladin and fighter have with the same health & endurance progression. I must be delusional, because Brimsurfer decrees it so. That's what all your arguments amount to. Since your opinions have no basis in fact, you can only falling back to ad hominem attacks as a last resort. You have not grounded your complaints in logic or common sense. You're not after help, just a soapbox to make irrational rants. No point feeding a troll any further; it's what the ignore user feature's for.

Paladins are not (designed as) tanks, simple proof is that they do not have any class talents dedicated to tanking, they are meant to be resilient frontliners with support abilities in combination with some offensive skills........and now their base deflection and endurance both are dumbed down to average in comparison to actual tank classes which start with high or very high base deflection......in my experience this whole package is pretty underwhelming, they are only good for removing a couple of conditions and casting their zealous aura, which ain't really much in comparison to other classes and how they fill their roles........ I guess I must have imagined the time my paladin tanked Alpine & Adra Dragon alone, sans buffs, for over a minute while the rest of my party cleaned up the adds since you insist paladins can't tank. I assume by "actual tank classes" you mean classes like fighters? Let's have a look at their tanking abilities then: 1. Constant Recovery - worse than Lay on Hands 2. Knockdown - see Overbearing Guard 3. Defender - got nerfed into the ground and now lowers deflection. Worthless. 4. Guardian - a wash with Reinforcing Exhortation 5. Vigorous Defense - so warriors have to take an ability to get a temporary +20 fort/will/reflex buff that paladins get for free all the time with Faith and Conviction. Okay... 6. Overbearing Guard - ok, I'll give you this one. Yes, paladins have no crowd control. Oh well, they can't do everything. 7. Fearless - frightened/terrified isn't as annoying as the confuse/charm/domination handled by Aegis of Loyalty, but either way you can use scroll/priest 8. Unbending - see Constant Recovery 9. Critical Defense - by the time you get this talent, your deflection should be so high that you'd only get crit once in a blue moon. Not terrible, but that strong an ability either 10. Unbroken - in my games, tanks are always the last to die, so if my tank is dying something's gone terribly wrong and I'm reloading anyway. If your tanks are regularly dying, you should do something about your tactics instead. I don't use "second chance" gear (like Argwes Adra) on my tanks either, so this ability's of no value to me 11. Take the Hit - good ability to protect a squishy rogue. Paladins would probably use Reinforcing Exhortation + heal through this, so I'll call this a wash. 12. Triggered Immunity - this is a nice ability. I'll give the nod to warriors here. So 1, 3, 5, 8 are straight up worse than paladins. 4, 7, 10, 11 are basically a wash. So it's just critical defense that's marginal and crowd control & triggered immunity that's better. Ok, so fighters have better damage spike protection. But you conveniently forget the fact that some of the hardest hitting bosses like dragons or Concelhaut do Fort/Reflex/Will attacks (like dragon breath attacks vs reflex, for example) and that those abilities are there to help fighters make up the 20+ deficit vs paladins on those defenses. You simplistically count up the number of tanking abilities and conclude fighters are "better tanks" because they have more tanking abilities without taking into account the underlying mechanics or take into account how strong a fully levelled up Faith & Conviction is. You look at that "low" base deflection paladins have, but don't include the deflection bonus that Faith & Conviction & favored dispositions will add back. As for base endurance, paladins & warriors are the same, so I don't know what you're talking about. Monks have higher health, but they need it because of the wounds mechanic. As for crowd control, it's definitely one point fighters have over paladins. But actually fighter knockdown/prone is not a particularly strong CC, and many classes can crowd control better like wizards or ciphers, so I'm happy to defer that job to them. Also paladins have skills like revive or haste buff that fighters don't have. If you're going to say paladins are a weak class, at least base it on the facts. But it's clear at this point that it doesn't matter how good or bad the class is, because you've already made up your mind that "paladins suck", based on some very narrow, preconceived, arbitrary ideas of how the class is "supposed" to work. Ideas that have nothing to do with in-game mechanics or lore. So just do everyone a favor and reroll, because you're never going to like this class.

I also prefer not to take Penetrating Shot on Sagani, since Stormcaller comes with a built-in -6 shock DR debuff. My preferred talents would be the pet talents Resilient/Vicious/Merciless Companion, Marksman, Weapon Focus, Heart of the Storm, Apprentice Sneak Attack, Outlander's Frenzy.

Vancian casters are OP enough as is, even with 2 rests in Hard/PotD.

You're a bit under levelled for this so things like Scroll of Valor/Potion of Eldrich Aim to improve your accuracy, so you can land some key crowd control spells at the start of the fight will help. Scroll of Defense/Moonwell to help your defenses. Maybe also Potion of Spirit Shield if the Plague of Insects interruption is bad

Obsidian's build "recommendations" only apply to whatever archetypal build they had in mind for the class, which in the paladin's case seems to be tanking. From their own class description: "Many paladins hold leadership positions in armies and mercenary companies, but in the heat of the battle their fanaticism often overrules the chain of command - and common sense." Leadership, as in main tank. My current tank paladin follows their stat allocation recommendations in resolve/might/constitution/intelligence: M 17, C 16, D 4, P 6, I 17, R 18. He can't hit the broad side of a barn and attacks slower than an arthritic grandma, but that's fine because he's just there to be a meatshield. You're NOT trying to build a main tank, so of course you're going to get unsatisfactory results by blindly following the same template.

You're the one who's complaining that you can "barely hit anyone". Bumping perception is the obvious solution to fixing that. But your counter-argument is, "no, I won't fix my perception because the game says so" even though that info is way out of date. Yes, the game should change that advice, but others have tried to update you with current info. If you won't be helped, stop wasting everyone's time. Not disagreeing that might is still more important to paladins. But I was specifically addressing his "can't hit anything" issue. Also 16 resolve for a non-tank character is overkill, unless you want it high for role playing reasons.

Paladin is not a damage dealing character and the game says Perception is not important for Paladins, so I am going to keep it at average score of 10 or 12 Are you serious? You won't take good advice and then complain that no one's trying to help you?! You say that paladins aren't a damage dealing class, but don't like the healing support paladin's *can* give (lay-on-hands/healing chain/reviving exhortation/sacred immolation) and then complain that they're not doing any damage, but won't respec to fix that. And you know that game "advice" hasn't been fixed after the Perception/Accuracy change right? So you'll take outdated game advice over people who've actually played/finished the game with a paladin in PotD... @dam is right, you need to stop trolling your own thread.

@Brimsurfer: With 10 Dex & 10 Per on a damage dealing character, no wonder he can't hit anything. You'll want to bump at least one of those depending on whether you go 2 hand or 2 weapon focus. My main tank/main healer Moon Godlike Darcozzi paladin's (Living Lands) stats are: 17 MIG, 16 CON, 4 DEX, 6 PER, 17 INT, 18 RES For a front-line dps, I might go Hearth Orlan (Living Lands): 18 MIG, 8 CON, 18 DEX, 14 PER, 10 INT, 10 RES using dual stilettos/sabres like Vent Pick/Purgatory. Dual weapons work best for full attack skills like Flames of Devotion. Average intelligence means smaller aura/sacred immolation but 10 Int could still be big enough for your needs. Pull a few points from perception if you want. For a second-line melee, I might go Coastal Aumaua (Living Lands): 21 MIG, 8 CON, 10 DEX, 18 PER, 18 INT, 3 RES using Tall Grass/Llawren's Stick. The resolve loss is annoying, but mitigated by using a reach weapon, so shouldn't get interrupted very often.

Like a number of others have mentioned already, I think the biggest issues is there's mismatch between what the OP wants/expects out of paladins, and what they're designed to be, which is a melee defensive support class. Paladins can output a respectable amount of damage, but they're never going to do more damage than a proper kitted out rogue, ranger, etc. And while priests are indisputably the best buffers in the game, they're the worst at actual healing. Moonwell (especially the scroll version) is a lot better than Consecrated Ground. Lay on Hands is better than all of the priest's direct heals which are garbage IMO; you can get it from Level 1, it heals for more, and it's twice per encounter. Healing Chain is just gravy on top that confirms paladins as the best healing class in the game. Paladin's revives are better than the priests too. Reviving Exhortation can be obtained as early as level 7, heals for 300 base, and is once per encounter. The priest equivalent heals for 50 base, per rest and you don't get it till level 9. Aegis of Loyalty is great too against some of the most annoying debuffs in the game (charm/confuse/dominate), especially after Sacred Immolation (one tic cancels the effect). Sure you can use the priest's Prayer Against Treachery, but that eats up a valuable Level 6 cast that I'd much rather use on Crowns/Spark/Cleansing Flame, whereas Aegis is a passive. Liberating Exhortation can handle the other annoying debuffs. As for a tanking role, I guess it depends on what you value in a tank (survivability, crowd control, damage, support, etc) and the make up of your party. From your complaints, it sounds like what you really want is an Overbearing Guard fighter tank. I'm playing a PotD PC paladin tank right now, working my way through WM2, and while I miss having no crowd control on the tank, even a fighter or monk tank won't really help against the most annoying mobs in WM, like enemy barbarians or monks who ignore your tank to go after your backline. Their high fortitude saves, esp in PotD, makes knockdown/prones unreliable, so you'd still need some other class to provide a reflex/will based crowd control method on them, and I often find the easiest way to deal with them to be a fast Reinforcing Exhortation on the target + weapon swap to hatchet/shield (giving the target deflection ~100+) and then just having the rest of the DPS focusing them down. On survivability, paladins tanks have only slightly worse deflection than fighters tanks, and worse DR than monk tanks but DR hits diminishing returns and a paladin's better fort/reflex/will saves is more helpful IMO because later on the only time a tank is in danger of dying is when he's suffering from a debuff like paralyze/petrified, and better saves will help with that. Anyway, I think the class is fine at what it does but it sounds as if you don't enjoy playing it, which is perfectly okay! It's like how I never liked playing ranger, even after all the buffs because I hate having to micro the pet all the time to get decent damage, since the stupid AI and pathfinding ends up killing it a lot. In my game, my paladin's basically a low maintenance meatshield and healer and his damage is horrible lol. To get the most out of paladin abilities, I had to max might and intelligence, and with resolve requisite for a tank, there's just no points left for good dexterity/perception. Anyway, it gives me time to micro my cipher and priest, whom I play quite offensively. It's funny because PoE priests are just terrible at the two tasks they're traditionally associated with; healing and resurrecting.