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So what do you guys think of Outlander's Frenzy?


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I just noticed this skill. Seems really good but on PotD where I find my magic/ranged characters always near death and in need of quick heals, I'm not sure whether to pick it up. Seems to be safest on ranged characters but even then they are often targeted as the weakest link as well by ranged enemies. Still though, +3 might and constitution with 25% attack speed even with -10 deflecton and hidden health seems really good. I guess I'm not sure how annoying the no visible health thing might be

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Not seeing health is pretty annoying. I like it mainly for "max attack speed" builds, assuming Sanguine armor is not being used (doesn't stack). The thing with attack speed is that it is better the more of it you have because of how the funky math works. If you are already slow and have Nothing else that boosts attack speed, you probably won't notice the difference. It is also best for classes that "want" to have low defenses in order to trigger items that have "received a crit" abilities. Finally, you want it on a character with high Intelligence so it lasts a good, long time.

 

I like it on some fighters since they have regeneration abilities and "unbroken" which mitigate the negatives. Doesn't matter if your health is hidden if you can't actually die.

 

If you don't have those synergies, I think it is pretty lousy.

 

By the way, does anyone know how "temporary con" works. Is damage you take first subtracted from the bonus endurance and health, effectively making that "free health"?

Edited by Braven
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I use it on hiravias before he shapeshifts. There's a minor bug where in shapeshifted form he can't use certain class abilities, like second wind or outcast frenzy. Also if he queues those new abilities up, he can hit himself after shapeshifting if you use the shift queue clicks.

 

It's a more reliable way to get good dps out of the druid's shapeshift and wildstrike, since hiravias' cat 33% frenzy is 1/rest. The druid claws are fast, so low recovery, combined with the natural hide armor which doesn't have recovery at all, makes for a very fast melee attack with 25% attack speed. Using the 33% cat buff is even better. Then there's the 50% alacrity potion made via crafting.

 

For the cost of a talent, getting some good alpha cast speed in the beginning of each fight appeals to my playstyle too. Since the more /encounter abilities a vancian class has, the more flexible they are.

 

One neat way to avoid the problem with hidden frenzy health, is to take an ability that activates at 50% endurance. That way you can see on the buffs, when that ability activates. Of course, that doesn't necessarily help if your COn or endurance is too low. Since the immediate next hit might down you, even after you notice it.

Edited by Ymarsakar
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If you hover over your party member who's in frenzy you can see the color of that question mark.

 

Green: you have more than 76% endurance

Yellow: under 75%

Orange: under 50%

Red: under 25% (I guess)

 

So you have an indicator. It's not great but better than nothing.

 

Outlander's Frenzy doesn't stack with other abilities, potions or spells that buff MIG, CON and universal Attack Speed. However it can be used to counter attack speed debuffs like from Cautious Attack and Vicious Attack. It also stacks with abilities that exclusively buff ranged attack speed like the chant Sure Handed Ila.

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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So, as long as you also use vulnerable attack or cautious attack, you still benefit from outlanders frenzy along with swift aim or swift punches active (they cancel each other out)?

 

I really wish the stacking rules and math (additive vs multiplicative) were a lot more consistent, or at least explained better in game. Without massive amounts of testing, it is really hard to compare different combinations. An ability could either be worthless or OP and have the exact same description text.

Edited by Braven
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What is the base duration of outlander frenzy?

Not very long. I think 12 seconds? And has a small activation action time, which wastes some of the gains of higher speed. Not worth it, if running low int. Like everything, best with spelltongue cheese. I think the +50% speed potion is base 30 seconds. Much better for a long or particularly difficult fight.

Edited by Braven
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Barbarian become more and more useless.

 

Everyone can Frenzy per encounter now...

 

Thanks Obsidian.

 

I recommand to Obsidian the following nerf for 3.02 :

 

Heart of the fury 1/life. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebYN0chFJp8

But not everyone can Carnage!

Yeah, wizards can, even on range, but they are omnipotent by design so you can't really compare.

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Vancian =/= per rest.

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Barbarian become more and more useless.

 

Everyone can Frenzy per encounter now...

 

Thanks Obsidian.

 

I recommand to Obsidian the following nerf for 3.02 :

 

Heart of the fury 1/life.

 

But not everyone can Carnage!

Yeah, wizards can, even on range, but they are omnipotent by design so you can't really compare.

Rangers too, with Stormcaller, to make it worse!

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Apparently a monk and paladin can be a fighter.  The soul-bound armor provides the fighter's level 15 ability and a couple of other great fighter powers.  The frenzy multi-class talent seems quite minor in comparison.  Also, all the classes share abilities via multi-class talents (with reduced effectiveness)

 

Keep in mind that Outlander's Frenzy is not as good as actual barbarian frenzy.  It is only 25% speed modifier instead of 33%.  It also provides less STR and CON and still has all the negatives (and costs a talent).

 

The main reason to pick Barbarian is because the carnage AOE ability allows for all kinds of cheese like permanently stunning all your enemies when using special weapon combinations or never-ending duration extension with spell tongue.  I think the sad thing about Barbarians is that to play them optimally, you need high INT and a silly looking rapier... which is very non-barbarian-like. 

Edited by Braven
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 I think the sad thing about Barbarians is that to play them optimally, you need high INT and a silly looking rapier... which is very non-barbarian-like. 

 

 

Understand-me. I don't tell the barbarian is totally ****.

 

Barbarian is very good at begining, or, like you said for endgame, requires special things (spelltongue etc.) Naturally, without value added, in endgame, is seriously inferior.

 

You said it : Carnage is awsome, but its all. Now, in metagame 3.01, endgame, Barbarian is frankly below the other classes.

Edited by theBalthazar
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He's not. Put a weapon with Spellchance on him (let's say Unlabored Blade) and watch him murder everything. Carnage is still one of the best abilites in the game if you know how to (ab)use it.

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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So, as long as you also use vulnerable attack or cautious attack, you still benefit from outlanders frenzy along with swift aim or swift punches active (they cancel each other out)?

What? No. Outlander's Frenzy is of no use if you already have any other ability (or potion) that gives you an universal speed buff like Swift Strikes, Swift Aim or Alacrity. Those don't stack (only exception is the Ila-chant because that's explicitely buffing ranged attack speed only, not universal attack speed).

But it's the only way for druids, rogues, fighters and rangers (who use Vicious Aim) to get more attack speed by themselves in order to get less (or even zero) recovery.  

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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So, as long as you also use vulnerable attack or cautious attack, you still benefit from outlanders frenzy along with swift aim or swift punches active (they cancel each other out)?

What? No. Outlander's Frenzy is of no use if you already have any other ability (or potion) that gives you an universal speed buff like Swift Strikes, Swift Aim or Alacrity. Those don't stack (only exception is the Ila-chant because that's explicitely buffing ranged attack speed only, not universal attack speed).

But it's the only way for druids, rogues, fighters and rangers (who use Vicious Aim) to get more attack speed by themselves in order to get less (or even zero) recovery.  

 

 

Oh,  I was confused by what you said about countering those things.  Thanks for the clarification.

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