IndiraLightfoot Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 (edited) Hi, all! I had waited almost a year for the entire WM expansion to be completed before I started a new PoE playthrough. Well, I've also made my first party, consisting nothing of tavern hirelings, and this is my first run at the Normal difficulty, a nice change from my previous ones, Path of the Damned and a Triple Crown Solo back in the day. Everything has been great. I can see that a lot of work has been spent on polishing and balancing the game. Very neat! Well, let me get to the point. I had just "liberated" Caed Nua and only had one incident there (Forest Lurker incasion, pretty tough, so I had built a Western Barbican). Then, when I was trying to finish the Wind of Steel quest for the Crucibles, I got a message, saying that some lord wanted to meet me at the Warren's. He claimed that Caed Nua was his by right. We were nearby, so we went there, and he got a hissy fit, and I was declared the rightful owner of Caed Nua. Soon, the Warren wanted to meet me in secret at the Charred Barrel, IIRC. Said and done - and that lord had arranged an ambush there. We defeated them. *Phew* We then went on and finished the Wind of Steel quest, only to hear that this crazy lord had amassed an army, set to march on Caed Nua!!! Mind you, at this point, we had barely killed Raedric and those Animats, since I was just about lvl 5, and the rest lvl 4. And this party consists of the classes that I hadn't played: two chanters, two priests, a paladin and a rogue. Almost no magical weapons, nothing enchanted, we had a few scrolls and some lousy potions, that's all. Well, we didn't want to lose our stronghold, so I told that chap in the Great Hall (dusty and untidy) that we were ready to take on this army. Err... *SPOILERS ABOUT THE BATTLE OF YENWOOD* I was lucky, since the Crucibles wanted to aid me (I had nothing else, no hirelings, nothing.) It turns out that they can snuff out the Bleak Walkers solidly. (I tried the Battle Mages on my first try, and then most of the Crucibles died.) And it took me four tries to defeat this army of Lord Madman. It was by far the hardest battle, and I had a hard time grasping that I was in fact playing at Normal difficulty. It took me those tries before I learnt how to drive those forces and make them blob, as it were. This is important for my kind of party. I had two priests, and a lvl 2 spell that made half of the difference. I can't recall its name, but deals frost damage in a long corridor. My other life-saving tool was the two chanters. Both of them had an invocation that I had almost regretted giving them: It's a weird one that makes downed enemies explode with crushing rot grubs (no, I'm not kidding). And that combo: freeze and then grub explosion - it was a treat. My paladin, the only one with decent armour and sword and board, tanked, while brain freeze and corpse maggots infested my enemies. Oh, and one priest, which I had invested 4 points in Lore, had a Web scroll and a Tanglefoot one - both were helpful as well. *END OF SPOILERS ABOUT THE BATTLE* Still, I must ask: Is this really by design? Should my lvl 4 party with no gear at Normal difficulty take on an army, or else risk losing Caed Nua right off the bat? If so, harsh, Mr Sawyer, harsh. P.S. I actually love Obsidian for including such a punishing encounter this early on. I was just surprised, since my first playthroughs didn't even bother looking at that Stronghold. Edited February 23, 2016 by IndiraLightfoot *** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urthor Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 The Marshal drops multiple explicit hits that you *can* definitely delay this battle for as long as you want, hand waved as sabotage, presumably so that people can go get the other two armed forces to aid you and generally level up. To a lvl 12 party the fight was defo trashmob humans, basically barbarian bait. Nobody forced you to do the fight at lvl 4-5, same as nobody forced you to go into the Temple of Eothas with 2 party members at lvl 3 on PotD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndiraLightfoot Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 (edited) You are right of course, Urthor. I just love that you can take this on this early (and the loot was pretty nice as well). Actually, there were other hints as well, saying that I shouldn't trust those in the Great Hall/Caed Nua, since there might be a spy working for that lord, so I was wary of him. I mean, he was the only guy there. Still, in one of the flavour texts, they said it was pretty urgent, so I can see how newcomers to this game might misunderstand a thing or two, and then... Whoomp! Still great, though. Btw, was this a quest already in vanilla PoE, or has this been added in a later patch, or even in Part I of the WM expansion? Edited February 23, 2016 by IndiraLightfoot *** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skladzien Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 (edited) You are right of course, Urthor. I just love that you can take this on this early (and the loot was pretty nice as well). Actually, there were other hints as well, saying that I shouldn't trust those in the Great Hall/Caed Nua, since there might be a spy working for that lord, so I was wary of him. I mean, he was the only guy there. Still, in one of the flavour texts, they said it was pretty urgent, so I can see how newcomers to this game might misunderstand a thing or two, and then... Whoomp! Still great, though. Btw, was this a quest already in vanilla PoE, or has this been added in a later patch, or even in Part I of the WM expansion? Of What i know it is pretty new in WM pt 2. Yet i still did not figure how to get 2 more forces to aid me, since having only a Dozen (they work on mages not on bleak walkers), can't have Crucible and Doemenels at the same time. What are other two options in terms of aid (i mean Eir Glanfath? Dwarves?) Edited February 23, 2016 by Skladzien "Each event is preceded by Prophecy. But without the hero, there is no Event." -Zurin Arctus, the Underking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rheingold Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 (edited) Yeah it's you can do it early on by mistake, where it is really tough, still it's not nearly as bad as: Doing the iron flail merc fortress at 10th level. Not resting before going in to deal with the commander. Then having a rather large surprise waiting for you outside. That was pretty much the toughest fight I've had in Pillars including dragons. Mainly because the characters were injured, no spells, no scrolls.......... Really unpleasant. But a nice suprise if you are a masochist. Edited February 23, 2016 by rheingold "Those who look upon gods then say, without even knowing their names, 'He is Fire. She is Dance. He is Destruction. She is Love.' So, to reply to your statement, they do not call themselves gods. Everyone else does, though, everyone who beholds them.""So they play that on their fascist banjos, eh?""You choose the wrong adjective.""You've already used up all the others.” Lord of Light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndiraLightfoot Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 There more encounters we have in PoE that work this way, the better, IMHO, since it reminds me of BG and other classic RPGs, where overwhelming stuff may just happen to you, if you ignore a hint or simply over-extend or you act recklessly, or too over-confidently, or whatever. *** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rheingold Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Yeah, I'm not complaining I think it's great. But I was so close to having to reload from a couple of hours before. I really didn't think I could get past the fight and there is no alternative to the fight. You can't even rest "Those who look upon gods then say, without even knowing their names, 'He is Fire. She is Dance. He is Destruction. She is Love.' So, to reply to your statement, they do not call themselves gods. Everyone else does, though, everyone who beholds them.""So they play that on their fascist banjos, eh?""You choose the wrong adjective.""You've already used up all the others.” Lord of Light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndiraLightfoot Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 Rheingold: I know, having the right saves can be a real life saver. In these kind of games, I save like a squirrel. 1 *** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rheingold Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 For me it's less about reloading and more about role playing so I hate starting a quest then having to reload and come back later.... It was close though:) Thank god for Sagani and the ever faithful kiting mechanic - though the fight took a long long time.... 1 "Those who look upon gods then say, without even knowing their names, 'He is Fire. She is Dance. He is Destruction. She is Love.' So, to reply to your statement, they do not call themselves gods. Everyone else does, though, everyone who beholds them.""So they play that on their fascist banjos, eh?""You choose the wrong adjective.""You've already used up all the others.” Lord of Light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndiraLightfoot Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 Hehe! Reloading is indeed a last resort, and I try to play along, as it were. And yup! Some sort of jerky kiting is working pretty well in PoE. There's usually one or two that give up and a few that don't, and still go after you. You just have to pray that you don't get engaged or get hit too hard by ranged attacks/spells that stun/freeze you. 1 *** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
house2fly Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I think the pacing of the stronghold quest would be better if the final bit, where the angry mob gathers outside and you prepare for a battle, wouldn't trigger until act 3. It feels more fitting to have an epic battle like that after you've been in charge of Caed Nua for a while, done some scripted stuff with visitors and some grand adventures, and made more of a name for yourself. It's weird to think you can defeat the Lord of Yenwood and his army of Bleak Walkers and then go back to Defiance Bay looking for scepter parts so you can gain enough rep to help Eder with his quest. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skladzien Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I think the pacing of the stronghold quest would be better if the final bit, where the angry mob gathers outside and you prepare for a battle, wouldn't trigger until act 3. It feels more fitting to have an epic battle like that after you've been in charge of Caed Nua for a while, done some scripted stuff with visitors and some grand adventures, and made more of a name for yourself. It's weird to think you can defeat the Lord of Yenwood and his army of Bleak Walkers and then go back to Defiance Bay looking for scepter parts so you can gain enough rep to help Eder with his quest. Very True +1 "Each event is preceded by Prophecy. But without the hero, there is no Event." -Zurin Arctus, the Underking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndiraLightfoot Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 (edited) I think the pacing of the stronghold quest would be better if the final bit, where the angry mob gathers outside and you prepare for a battle, wouldn't trigger until act 3. It feels more fitting to have an epic battle like that after you've been in charge of Caed Nua for a while, done some scripted stuff with visitors and some grand adventures, and made more of a name for yourself. It's weird to think you can defeat the Lord of Yenwood and his army of Bleak Walkers and then go back to Defiance Bay looking for scepter parts so you can gain enough rep to help Eder with his quest. Yeah! I'd guess that's the crux of it, isn't it? The whole thing unfolds quickly, super early and with quite some urgency to it all. Obviously, the entire encounter would need to be made more difficult, but a move to Act 3 would make sense - then it would be a bit like NWN 2. The one thing that I do commend them for is the fact that it's available early, for those so inclined. And the pacing of it is off, since Stronghold time and turns are non-related entities, our dev Sking made a post about in the Stronghold Strategy thread recently (Gen Discuss, IIRC). Edited February 23, 2016 by IndiraLightfoot *** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urthor Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 (edited) You are right of course, Urthor. I just love that you can take this on this early (and the loot was pretty nice as well). Actually, there were other hints as well, saying that I shouldn't trust those in the Great Hall/Caed Nua, since there might be a spy working for that lord, so I was wary of him. I mean, he was the only guy there. Still, in one of the flavour texts, they said it was pretty urgent, so I can see how newcomers to this game might misunderstand a thing or two, and then... Whoomp! Still great, though. Btw, was this a quest already in vanilla PoE, or has this been added in a later patch, or even in Part I of the WM expansion? Of What i know it is pretty new in WM pt 2. Yet i still did not figure how to get 2 more forces to aid me, since having only a Dozen (they work on mages not on bleak walkers), can't have Crucible and Doemenels at the same time. What are other two options in terms of aid (i mean Eir Glanfath? Dwarves?) Ogres and Iron Flail. Both are very easy if you follow the main quest on railroads. You can only have 3, your faction, ogres from WM1, Flail from WM2 The Battle itself was by far thebest choose your own adventure, only the ending of WM2 comes close. Really think they excelled there, InExile has a lot to improve on in Torment with theirs Edited February 23, 2016 by Urthor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausir Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Of What i know it is pretty new in WM pt 2. Yet i still did not figure how to get 2 more forces to aid me, since Pillars of Eternity Wiki * The Vault - Fallout Wiki * Wasteland 2 Wiki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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