Did chanters get changed with 3.0?

[Reent]

hmmm, after some math, i wouldnt think so - one dragon chant deals just too much damage, against 20 DR with 20 might its only about 64 (4 damage ticks) - 7 nights is about 45-60 base, with +30% its almost 50 average - 7 nights should be affected by talents etc, so you should be able to get it up to dragon chant damage level... however every wind is only about 9 damage or something (dunno if it even deals that much...), 2 winds makes one dragon chant, so you loose out on 46 damage...

 

if you can cast for free - not loosing any time for your chants (i loose about 1 dragon chant for every spell i use - since both deal about the same damage, not worth it for me), you trade 62 damage to deal 50 extra damage... not worth it^^ (i count the damage lost from 3 winds (1.5 dragon chants) vs 1 7 nights, so its not true, its even worse)

 

20 DR enemys, 20 might - its not worth it, even with zero cast recovery, the higher the DR the better your constellation becomes (however pure wind+7 nights should win out before your constellation does - since wind doesnt use DR and 7 nights is better vs high DR)  the higher your might, the better dragon chant gets (i have about 30 might in fights 38 in group with champions boon - the enemy would have >>40 DR to make 7 nights worth it - or he has to have immunity to part or all of it)

[Dr <3]

You may be right, but forgot to consider 2 things:

1) with 7 nights you deal damage faster, it is an istant spell and not a dot, so if people start to turn red is better that than apply another dragon chant

2) the nearest enemy are usally ( and bigger enemies always) hit by 2 or 3 of the ice rays of seven nights, so the DMG is actually much higher. I remember to hit an ogre for about 200 DMG ( but that was an extremly lucky shot with crit and some buffs)

[Ichthyic]

don't know if it's the same now as it was back in patch 1.4 days, but I figured out that the best DPS was with dragon/death chant mix, and summoning the orgre twins.

the damage those two ogres add to single targets is HUGE, and they stick around for quite a while.  also tough,  I can't even recall anything short of a full grown dragon taking them down before their timers ran out.

they end up doing far more damage overall than any of the instant spells, even if you manage to get two cold fingers touching the same target.

plus, of course... they tank.

after comparing all the spells, I never used anything but them and the mass paralysis... and even stopped using that in favor of having Kana just use scrolls of paralysis whenever needed.




 

[Reent]

the first part is something i didnt forget, i just didnt mention it because we speak about DPS - okay, i had it in one of my versions of my post (wrote it while doing the math - deleted everything after i was done with my math^^, i thought 7 nights would be better even against low DR, but it looses out too hard for me...

 

the 2nd part: i am playing (solo) expert, i dont use the spell much, so i dont wanna learn the exact angle - and for every double hit you can miss one... and in my fights everyone moves all the time and my chants come with 3-4 secs delay (thx to -50% plate and 3 dex)

 

hmmm, maybe i should use the spell a bit in my solo run, try it out - with talents for more damage maybe some fights get easier... will write if it does (however my char died and the new one died against the spiders in chaed nua, since i was too greedy - ironman can suck^^) so i may need a bit before i will try it in fights^^

 

 

@summons... i dont find them that usefull... the damage isnt nearly as good as a damage spell - you hit 10 enemys or so for a combined 700 damage or something with one spell...  sure, if you need bodys... but who needs bodys after such a long time? You need bodys as first strike - Figurines do that.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Reent

[Boeroer]

 the nearest enemy are usally ( and bigger enemies always) hit by 2 or 3 of the ice rays of seven nights, so the DMG is actually much higher. I remember to hit an ogre for about 200 DMG ( but that was an extremly lucky shot with crit and some buffs)

For me, most of the time it hits for more than 200 damage. I do it like you: I mix Sweet Winds of Death with Dragon Thrashed - in order to speed the counter up and also because you can have three parallel DoT ticks at the same time (6 with two chanters) - this is extremely powerful if you also use Combusting Wounds. Then, when my counter reaches 5 points, I will cast Seven Nights on the guy in front of me (usually three spikes hit him) and he's gone - or I cast a paralyze or revive. Because that can really save the day in difficult encounters. Sure, more damage is nice, but sometimes you need CC or instant kills more badly then a bit more DoT damage.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Boeroer

[rheingold]

Oh my Hat!!! I'm stunned. I'm running a Potd chanter main with 5 customs. No wizards, ciphers or priests. Only 2 casters really, a druid and chanter. Just fun characters:)

All 5th level. I started Caed Nua, and everything was fine until the 2nd level, the xaurip blood pool level. It's not tough per say, but I'm trying to clear each level without resting. And the place is crawling with xaurips. So I get to the alcove right before the pool, and most of my characters are in a bad way and only one more cast of returning storm. The alcove is swarming with xaurips which I manage. But I don't see how I'm going to finish the level. Then I notice all the bodies lying around doing nothing....

So I pull everyone back and send my chanter forward. The cut scene plays and about a gazillion xaurips come running. (First Potd run, and I had no idea there were so many of the blighters). My characters are about to fall under an avalanche of slimy, chittering lizards when the chanter manages to get off the white worms chant.

 

End of fight.

Boom, 24 hits(18 hits, I critical rest grazes) and 7 or 8 missed. Unfortunately I don't know how to do a screen grab. But one minute there was a rolling, seething mass of hate, hunger and teeth, the next, one xaurip priest and one lonely trooper were all that's left.

Unbelievable and loads of fun.

[Elric Galad]

So it's basically 60 damages against 150% DR per 4s chant with 15 Int (for 9s total) at level 16.

Plus Might bonus of course.

 

With a friendly AoE.

 

And chanter can do something else in the mean time.

 

With immolation, paladin does 25 average damage per 3s against 100% DR.

Wich means 33 average damages per 4s against 133% DR.

 

 

I really wondered how Dragon slashed compared to sacred immolation. Apparently, a Dragon Slashed focused chanter will do much more damages than paladin (not to mention the increased ranged.). But of course the paladin can do a lot of other stuff in the meantime, heals nearby allies too, etc...

Edited March 15, 2016 by Elric Galad

[Dr <3]

Chant is by far stronger. More DMG, very huge aoe, no time limit. The last may seem a pun, but if you solo usually immolation wears off always too early! Ah and you don't lose Life in the process

Edited March 14, 2016 by Dr <3

[Elric Galad]

Yep, and suddenly, your chanter paralyses the battlefield, summons 3 ancient weapons or even more crazy, resurrect half of your team with "Rise Again, Rise Again, Scions of Adon !", my favorite situationnal invocation.

 

Do you know what ? Classes are balanced now 

Edited March 14, 2016 by Elric Galad

[rheingold]

^ yup balanced or at least getting there. It's a good sign for pillars 2, they have a really strong base in terms of their ruleset. Not that there isn't room for improvement. But it's looking good considering the whole system was built from scratch.

[Reent]

I still feel the Chanter is in a bad spot - he should get a recoding... the chanting is so akward... it can crit - but the crit multiplyer has nothing to do with the spell... if you are dwarf, your +15 against wilder gets applied, the resting bonus doesnt... the spell doesnt scale with talents only attributes... it has an active "chanting" time and a linger duration - however you dont apply the spell continuosly but once... (would be much smoother if the spell would apply all the time while you are chanting and would start the linger duration if the enemy/ally left the chant range)

 

so while all classes are in a spot where they are usable, the mechanics around the chanter are very bad (you have a mass charm - ever seen what happens if you accidently charm the whole enemy group? Jeah - you restart the fight, GJ (and the chants go on CD; since thats what they do when a fight ends - ever tried kiting with the speed chant? Dont do it - if the fight resets because you cast too slow or something... your speedbuff is gone and on CD) - same problems with cipher ringleader (if it wasnt changed)) i get my acc up to around 100 (chants) - with lvl 16... so its not very reliable to hit the hardest encounters - and i cant really buff it... wow... so i have to change to deal damage with 7 nights since it is buffable... what - really?!

 

I like every class, but there is major pain (the "this is a fight - this stops a fight" rules for example) in everything (cipher spells generating focus...)... i made a post about the charm problem 06.04.2015 - no answers :D and the problem is still in play... that doesnt make me look forward to pillars 2... is it really so hard to make a good engagement based game? This game clearly ****ed it up (one of the reasons (not the main one) why my chanter doesnt take charm anymore) i dont look forward to pillars 2 from a fighting perspective - i hope they make a good RPG, clearly - the fighting isnt up to a good standart.

(i still like to play pillars, but i weep silently about the very very very bad mechanics... my first day playing pillars (i played it the moment it came out, but not beta): create druid (since i like spiritshift), start the run - first fight, i spiritshift... fight over, 2nd fight - oh, i can still spiritshift, i thought it was per rest... 3rd fight, spiritshift randomly ends... 4rd fight, spiritshift randomly ends... i look for bugreports... i dont find anything, i try again - i dont know when it will end, i stop playing druid - i cant play a backline character (i would never give him plate etc at that time) that has a good melee ability - but no timer (it still doesnt - WHAT THE ****), after that fail i created a wizard - taking the melee weapon spell, only to loose my grimoire in gilded vale... created a ranger after, got a nice bug - at that time, if you created an animal companion with one specific name (dont know it anymore, bear god or something) if the animal companion started a fight the game didnt know the animal companion... so the cutscene to get you into the ruins didnt trigger - tried 3 times to get to the ruins until i saw that the animal companion triggered fights with ?? as trigger - changed the name of the animal companion, could advance - got to raedrics hold only to get the stuck bug - couldnt load the next area -  that was when i went to bed... first 6 hours of the game and i started a new run the next day. So - i weep, pillars is a nice RPG - however the things i saw, the things i see... make for a very very bad foundation with a look at rulesets - spiritshift still has no timer, charm can still break the combat etc)

[Remix]

I just used my ver 2 POTD party after the 3.0 update and, I have to say, since the changes to the chanter this party is even more potent. I have two vanican casters and I rarely even have to use their spells in most encounters. I can save them for "oh ****" situations and boss fights.

 

Party setup is as follows:

 

Fighter DD/Tank

Paladin Tank/Healer/Buffer

Chanter AOE DD/Off tank

Cipher CC/AOE DD

Wizard CC/Debuffer

Druid AOE DD

 

I already used the chanter in a similar way but now I can string dragon thrashed with 1st level phrases and get 5-7 phrases built up pretty quickly. He's gone from being a decent damage dealer to one of my primary offensive options. And mixing his summons with the ciphers ectopsychic echo means I can demolish most trash mobs with little effort. If anyone is interested I can post more throrough details of my party build.