Qistina Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Convert to Islam...problem solved... Yeah, no... That's really not a solution. Why not? he does look passable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 So the answer for removing islamic extremism is to convert and make Europe more islamic? lol You are sowing the seeds of balkanisation and civil war without knowing it. What i mean is, you produce your own European Islamic scholars, that's the only way. Surely white Imam is more pleasing to look at for you than the angry looking bearded Middle Eastern, Pakistan, black imams in your country isn't it? Unless you want to conduct holocoust on Muslims, this is the only way... So you say that it is impossible for muslims in Europe to accept non-halal meat, Jihad not being the salvation for the wicked, eating pork, drinking alcohol, women, gays and pagans being equal to anyone else before the law? Holocaust sounds silly, why not compromise? Peaceful repartriation of muslims to the muslim homelands with various economic incentives and trade peacefully? That way war should be war would be avoided in the long run. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qistina Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Or you guys prefer like this one....your choice.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadly_Nightshade Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 How about none of the above and all the Muslims become atheists? I mean wouldn't that accomplish the same thing? Or am I being too extreme and unreasonable? "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qistina Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) So you say that it is impossible for muslims in Europe to accept non-halal meat, Jihad not being the salvation for the wicked, eating pork, drinking alcohol, women, gays and pagans being equal to anyone else before the law? Holocaust sounds silly, why not compromise? Peaceful repartriation of muslims to the muslim homelands with various economic incentives and trade peacefully? That way war should be war would be avoided in the long run. Yes it is impossible for Muslims to eat non-halal foods, drinking alcohol, freesex and all those sinful things. No matter European or not. BUT most things in Islam are just EASTERN culture not really Islamic. Peace can only be achieve if you have more European and especially WHITE Muslim scholars who know your own people and western values. Today you don't have it. So eastern imams keep imposing eastern culture into Europe and that's create conflict. For example, having beards and wearing turban is NOT islamic, it just Arabic culture. You can wear coat being an Imam and shaved, no problem... European resentment toward Islam is actually NOT religious, but you guys don't want to loose your proud European identity. The solution is, you don't need to loose your identity, and this need Imams of your own people. Edited November 23, 2015 by Qistina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadly_Nightshade Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Yes it is impossible for Muslims to eat non-halal foods, drinking alcohol, freesex and all those sinful things. Sounds like you're missing out on all the fun! 1 "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 So you say that it is impossible for muslims in Europe to accept non-halal meat, Jihad not being the salvation for the wicked, eating pork, drinking alcohol, women, gays and pagans being equal to anyone else before the law? Holocaust sounds silly, why not compromise? Peaceful repartriation of muslims to the muslim homelands with various economic incentives and trade peacefully? That way war should be war would be avoided in the long run. Yes it is impossible for Muslims to eat non-halal foods, drinking alcohol, freesex and all those sinful things. No matter European or not. BUT most things in Islam are just EASTERN culture not really Islamic. Peace can only be achieve if you have more European and especially WHITE Muslim scholars who know your own people and western values. Today you don't have it. So eastern imams keep imposing eastern culture into Europe and thst's create conflict. For example, having beards and wearing turban is NOT islamic, it just Arabic culture. You can wear coat being an Imam and shaved, no problem... I already told you what the western values were in my earlier post, of which have to be included into Islam in Europe for it to be compatible with modern western culture. That would be what the white imam's would be preaching. Would that kind of 'Islam' be considered heretical to the point of apostacy for other muslims? If so, why bother then and not just agree on that each civilization should go their separate ways and just trade with each other? "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qistina Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Yes it is impossible for Muslims to eat non-halal foods, drinking alcohol, freesex and all those sinful things. Sounds like you're missing out on all the fun! I can have fun in heaven thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qistina Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) So you say that it is impossible for muslims in Europe to accept non-halal meat, Jihad not being the salvation for the wicked, eating pork, drinking alcohol, women, gays and pagans being equal to anyone else before the law? Holocaust sounds silly, why not compromise? Peaceful repartriation of muslims to the muslim homelands with various economic incentives and trade peacefully? That way war should be war would be avoided in the long run. Yes it is impossible for Muslims to eat non-halal foods, drinking alcohol, freesex and all those sinful things. No matter European or not. BUT most things in Islam are just EASTERN culture not really Islamic. Peace can only be achieve if you have more European and especially WHITE Muslim scholars who know your own people and western values. Today you don't have it. So eastern imams keep imposing eastern culture into Europe and thst's create conflict. For example, having beards and wearing turban is NOT islamic, it just Arabic culture. You can wear coat being an Imam and shaved, no problem... I already told you what the western values were in my earlier post, of which have to be included into Islam in Europe for it to be compatible with modern western culture. That would be what the white imam's would be preaching. Would that kind of 'Islam' be considered heretical to the point of apostacy for other muslims? If so, why bother then and not just agree on that each civilization should go their separate ways and just trade with each other? nononono...look at Malaysian Imams...yes there are some who wear turban and beard, but not all...this is a Grand Mufti of Perak, he doesn't look like Arabs, he look like Malays, wearing the "songkok" (malay men headress) and "baju melayu" (Malaysian national dress), he's respected by Muslims here...his name is Dato' Harussani Zakaria, still serve as Grand Mufti of Perak (a state in Malaysia) being a Muslim don't throw away your identity, so western Muslims don't have to be Arabs and thats makes Europeans easier on European Muslims. Edited November 23, 2015 by Qistina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadly_Nightshade Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Yes it is impossible for Muslims to eat non-halal foods, drinking alcohol, freesex and all those sinful things. Sounds like you're missing out on all the fun! I can have fun in heaven thank you That's assuming you're right and that the myriad of other religions are all wrong... Personally I think it far better to avoid religion altogether but to each their own. But then I'm also more than a bit suspicious that you're just a sockpuppet. "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 So you say that it is impossible for muslims in Europe to accept non-halal meat, Jihad not being the salvation for the wicked, eating pork, drinking alcohol, women, gays and pagans being equal to anyone else before the law? Holocaust sounds silly, why not compromise? Peaceful repartriation of muslims to the muslim homelands with various economic incentives and trade peacefully? That way war should be war would be avoided in the long run. Yes it is impossible for Muslims to eat non-halal foods, drinking alcohol, freesex and all those sinful things. No matter European or not. BUT most things in Islam are just EASTERN culture not really Islamic. Peace can only be achieve if you have more European and especially WHITE Muslim scholars who know your own people and western values. Today you don't have it. So eastern imams keep imposing eastern culture into Europe and thst's create conflict. For example, having beards and wearing turban is NOT islamic, it just Arabic culture. You can wear coat being an Imam and shaved, no problem... I already told you what the western values were in my earlier post, of which have to be included into Islam in Europe for it to be compatible with modern western culture. That would be what the white imam's would be preaching. Would that kind of 'Islam' be considered heretical to the point of apostacy for other muslims? If so, why bother then and not just agree on that each civilization should go their separate ways and just trade with each other? nononono...look at Malaysian Imams...yes there are some who wear turban and beard, but not all...this is a Grand Mufti of Malaysia, he doesn't look like Arabs, he look like Malays, wearing the "songkok" (malay men headress) and "baju melayu" (Malaysian national dress), he's respected by Muslims here...his name is Dato' Harussani Zakaria, still serve as Grand Mufti of Perak (a state in Malaysia) being a Muslim don't throw away your identity, so western Muslims don't have to be Arabs and thats makes Europeans easier on European Muslims. I am not talking about funny costumes and beards, I am talking about basic western values. Answer my previous question. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qistina Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) I am not talking about funny costumes and beards, I am talking about basic western values. Answer my previous question. Eating pork, drink alcohol, gambling, freesex...all these are not western values...Chinese communists do the same, Indians do the same, Russians also do the same...what is "western value" anyway? Eating pork is western value? Lol, non-Muslim Chinese in my country eating pork... Edited November 23, 2015 by Qistina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 So you say that it is impossible for muslims in Europe to accept non-halal meat, Jihad not being the salvation for the wicked, eating pork, drinking alcohol, women, gays and pagans being equal to anyone else before the law? Holocaust sounds silly, why not compromise? Peaceful repartriation of muslims to the muslim homelands with various economic incentives and trade peacefully? That way war should be war would be avoided in the long run. Yes it is impossible for Muslims to eat non-halal foods, drinking alcohol, freesex and all those sinful things. No matter European or not. BUT most things in Islam are just EASTERN culture not really Islamic. Peace can only be achieve if you have more European and especially WHITE Muslim scholars who know your own people and western values. Today you don't have it. So eastern imams keep imposing eastern culture into Europe and thst's create conflict. For example, having beards and wearing turban is NOT islamic, it just Arabic culture. You can wear coat being an Imam and shaved, no problem... I already told you what the western values were in my earlier post, of which have to be included into Islam in Europe for it to be compatible with modern western culture. That would be what the white imam's would be preaching. Would that kind of 'Islam' be considered heretical to the point of apostacy for other muslims? If so, why bother then and not just agree on that each civilization should go their separate ways and just trade with each other? nononono...look at Malaysian Imams...yes there are some who wear turban and beard, but not all...this is a Grand Mufti of Malaysia, he doesn't look like Arabs, he look like Malays, wearing the "songkok" (malay men headress) and "baju melayu" (Malaysian national dress), he's respected by Muslims here...his name is Dato' Harussani Zakaria, still serve as Grand Mufti of Perak (a state in Malaysia) being a Muslim don't throw away your identity, so western Muslims don't have to be Arabs and thats makes Europeans easier on European Muslims. I am not talking about funny costumes and beards, I am talking about basic western values. Answer my previous question. For example, having beards and wearing turban is NOT islamic, it just Arabic culture. You can wear coat being an Imam and shaved, no problem... I am not talking about funny costumes and beards, I am talking about basic western values. Answer my previous question. Eating pork, drink alcohol, gambling, freesex...all these are not western values...Chinese communists do the same, Indians do the same, Russians also do the same...what is "western value" anyway? Eating pork is western value? Lol, non-Muslim Chinese in my country eating pork... Don't be selective, nor deflective now dear, or soon i will give you a spanking. All modern values are western values, as you may well be aware. I am also talking about the concept of original sin/man as a fallen angel-ethos. This is incredibly important to the mindset in Europe, meaning that you have to peacefully make amends and regret what you have done to elevate yourself for salvation. In Islam you have wage war and die as a martyr to get the same salvation. How on earth could that kind of value ever make sense here? "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qistina Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 The 10 commandments says what? This is western values some time ago.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qistina Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) If freesex is your western values, then when it happened? Isn't western values was derived from Christianity? Isn't your morality comes from it? Thou shalt not commit adultery...Muslims agree with this no doubt...so we don't have problem here. We share the same value here... And USA says..."In God we trust"...since when USA and Europe is an atheist country? So what is your "western values" again? Edited November 23, 2015 by Qistina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadly_Nightshade Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 The whole 'In god we trust' thing happened in 1956 as a reaction to the good old CCCP but, luckily, we still have the 1st Amendment! "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qistina Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Islam is not so different with Christianity actually... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_tc2H6SbJY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadly_Nightshade Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Islam is not so different with Christianity actually... And your point is? I'm not a fan of extreme Christians or Christians who want to force their beliefs on people either (secular government for the win). "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qistina Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Western values comes from Christianity, we can cope with each other But atheists are deuchbags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadly_Nightshade Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Yeah... See... And there you lost me Qistina because I'm not a Christian and am one of those 'deuchbags'. But I think you're just a troll so whatever. Trolls got to troll I guess. "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkpriest Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) You'r wrong. Much of WWII was a genuine ideological conflict, particularly on the Eastern front. Many young men threw themselves into the war, because they explicitly believed it a was a fight worth fighting, whatever their concrete reason was (for Hitler or against Nazism, protection of the "motherland" etc.). There was a lot of genuine zeal, even in the face of death. Even post WW1 german writers like Ernst Junger show no regrets for fighting even though he was personally wounded fourteen times and watched many of his friends and comrades die. He wrote Storm of Steel, and from what I read of it, he was proud of the fight to the end. And while we're on the subject of zeal, It is precisely this inability to concieve that ideas may be worth dying for or killing for, a result of Europe's war on religion, the nation state and any other form of belief modern man can attach value to (that great postmodern relativism) that impedes your (as in western) understanding of political Islam. Shuffling it all away as a socio-economic problem, some "extremists" being bonkers or whatever is a sort of willful stupidity and blindness that would be comical to watch from the sidelines if the results weren't so catastrophic. Islam is not going to accept the status of "one of many ineffectual religions we have in our society", like in the ridiculous American model. If you believe then it is the only religion, much as Christianity was in its own heyday, and it will fight for that status everyone else be damned. That's the nature of belief - only a closet atheist/secularist can profess to belong to a religion that explicitly considers itself the only valid one, while stating that "they're all equal" at the same time. That's illogical at best, schizophrenia at worst. So you're taking Ernst Junger's example and assuming it was representative of everyone else, while dismissing the factual arguments I made and the rest of the contemporary examples of the consequences that resisting conscription had (i.e. deportation to a concentration camp and death by firing squad). Was it an ideological struggle? Perhaps, though the line separating ideology and outright propaganda is blurry at best. Was there a safe alternative to being forcefully sent to die in a battlefield? Not really. "Ideas worth dying or killing for"? Such as? In what context? This is the sort of grandiloquent ideological hot air that is only good to engage people on an emotional level, to stop them from thinking critically and make them easier to manipulate for whatever goal the ideologue has in mind. Funny thing is, it's precisely the fact that these people believe in "ideas worth dying or killing for" that is a big part of the problem. Because it's your ideas that are worth killing and dying for, and not anyone else's, right? And killing others on ideological grounds has a great track record of solving problems permanently, yes sir. How about we try discussing the issue with arguments beyond anecdote and how everyone but you is blind and stupid. As an aside, if these ideas are worth dying and especially killing over, why aren't you, you know, killing and dying for them instead of strongly advocating that others go do it? Are they only sometimes worth that? Only worth that for someone else? How does that work exactly? These ideas are the ones that allow you to write whatever you think and be at worst criticized for them being "odd" or "out of place". It is because people who beleived in the values of personal freedom and free speech etc is worth dying for, you have the opportunity to do so today. As for me not going there... it is not my war, not my problem and in fact i am arguing now against importing those problems on OUR ground so we won't have to fight in the future with more than words, pen and paper to protect the values we acquired in the bloody conflicts of our history. Should this be a war in my country i would act differently. Edited November 23, 2015 by Darkpriest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qistina Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Yeah... See... And there you lost me Qistina because I'm not a Christian and am one of those 'deuchbags'. But I think you're just a troll so whatever. Trolls got to troll I guess. Maybe it is you who is trolling...atheists have no culture, western culture is not derived from atheism, but Christianity. Secularism is Protestant movement, not atheist movement... That is why atheists are deuchbags Edited November 23, 2015 by Qistina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Well, based on Qistina's answers (and terrible attempts to deflect and shift goal posts) i can safely assume that she provides no workable solutions. Anyone else? "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qistina Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) You see...even western Christians don't agree with homosexualism, alchoholism, freesex and all those SJW make a noise about...all these are not original western culture, but come from infidelity. Western culture is Christian culture originally, you guys can't deny that. Your culture come from interpretation of Bible. Secularism is a movement from Protestants who want to be free from Catholic Church power, they separate religion from states, that's what "PROTESTant" mean. Christians who protest the Church in Rome. You know what, even the Ottoman side with Protestants in the past... So you guys atheists have no basis at all with all your claims, Christians in your country will agree with me. See, i know a lot about Christians than western know about Islam.... Edited November 23, 2015 by Qistina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadly_Nightshade Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Yeah... See... And there you lost me Qistina because I'm not a Christian and am one of those 'deuchbags'. But I think you're just a troll so whatever. Trolls got to troll I guess. Maybe it is you who is trolling...atheists have no culture, western culture is not derived from atheism, but Christianity. Secularism is Protestant movement, not atheist movement... That is why atheists are deuchbags And here I thought he had a culture of abortion and sex before marriage and alcohol and ruining everyone's lives! Do you mean to say that everyone has been lying about that this entire time?! <--- Now that is me trolling. But, seriously, you really need to review your history because you're kinda just wrong on a number of topics. Like I'm talking Man in the High Castle wrong (on that note it's a good show). "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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